Turn based and success

[juanval]

I like to see steam sales and, lately, I'm following Deadfire sales. Before turn based patch launch, Deadfire wasn't in the first 10 pages of best sellers.

 

2 days ago and yesterday Deadfire was in the 4th and in the 3th page.

 

Today it's in the FIRST page .

 

I'll see next days if Deadfire is able to keep this top position.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Thank you for sharing this lovely piece of news!

[Elric Galad]

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

Which is Okay, I suppose, provided that their TB design would be as good as RTwP one.

 

But we should be aware that action-per-turn approach (even with action points or several actions per turn) is likely to be the ultimate doom of RTwP.

In my opinion, only dynamic turn approach is close enough to RTwP to avoid high maintenance costs between the 2 branches of the ruleset. Maintenance cost of the RTwP ruleset shall be low if we want to have a RTwP mode in PoE3.

 

 

Anyway, it's good news for Obsidian. I hope they get sales because they deserve it. And the Worldbuilding and Game Design they did for this serie deserves to continue even if the great wheel of RTwP is sacrified.  

Edited January 29, 2019 by Elric Galad

[Wormerine]

Can't say I can see it anywere on Steam. I do hope some new players will come. The game deserves it.

[thelee]

Can't say I can see it anywere on Steam. I do hope some new players will come. The game deserves it.

 

Yeah I can't confirm anything juanval says, unless they are in a different steam market than the US. But I do hope for obsidian/poe's sake that TB does bring in a batch of new sales.

[juanval]

I'm in Spain

[Elric Galad]

I'm in Spain

 

I wish you a Long Spain then.

[rjshae]

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

No, the only conclusion one might draw at this point is that RTwP and TB have somewhat different audiences for isometric RPGs. Yes, people exclusively in the latter group are jumping into the pool, but is it a large group or just a brief surge?

[Elric Galad]

You're right, based on the fact in the original post.

 

But a lot of people suspect that TB games do have a larger audience. And I've read on this forum that Obsidian is leaning toward TB for POE3 because of this.

[house2fly]

You've read people speculate that on this forum, specifically

[kanisatha]

 

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

No, the only conclusion one might draw at this point is that RTwP and TB have somewhat different audiences for isometric RPGs. Yes, people exclusively in the latter group are jumping into the pool, but is it a large group or just a brief surge?

^This. Plus, all current sales cannot be attributed to the addition of TB. Many people, myself included, choose to wait until a game has been out six months to a year before they buy it.

[hilfazer]

I speculate Obsidian released TB mode for PoE2 to research the market and determine if they should use TB in PoE3.

[kanisatha]

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

Which is Okay, I suppose, provided that their TB design would be as good as RTwP one.

 

But we should be aware that action-per-turn approach (even with action points or several actions per turn) is likely to be the ultimate doom of RTwP.

In my opinion, only dynamic turn approach is close enough to RTwP to avoid high maintenance costs between the 2 branches of the ruleset. Maintenance cost of the RTwP ruleset shall be low if we want to have a RTwP mode in PoE3.

 

 

Anyway, it's good news for Obsidian. I hope they get sales because they deserve it. And the Worldbuilding and Game Design they did for this serie deserves to continue even if the great wheel of RTwP is sacrified.  

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

[thelee]

 

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

Which is Okay, I suppose, provided that their TB design would be as good as RTwP one.

 

But we should be aware that action-per-turn approach (even with action points or several actions per turn) is likely to be the ultimate doom of RTwP.

In my opinion, only dynamic turn approach is close enough to RTwP to avoid high maintenance costs between the 2 branches of the ruleset. Maintenance cost of the RTwP ruleset shall be low if we want to have a RTwP mode in PoE3.

 

 

Anyway, it's good news for Obsidian. I hope they get sales because they deserve it. And the Worldbuilding and Game Design they did for this serie deserves to continue even if the great wheel of RTwP is sacrified.  

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

 

 

Mostly I won't touch it because I don't like TB-only experiences (ironic because back in the 90s I loved TB games like Fallout, FFT, whatnot). This is not meant to be spiteful, just not my cup of tea. Who knows, maybe some higher-up at Obsidian is making some cold calculus about whether or not the # of RtwP fans they would lose would be made up for by the # of TB fans they gain. I hope not, because I like PoE as a world and would be sad if I missed out on it because they decided to lean into a game mechanic I didn't like.

[kanisatha]

 

 

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

Which is Okay, I suppose, provided that their TB design would be as good as RTwP one.

 

But we should be aware that action-per-turn approach (even with action points or several actions per turn) is likely to be the ultimate doom of RTwP.

In my opinion, only dynamic turn approach is close enough to RTwP to avoid high maintenance costs between the 2 branches of the ruleset. Maintenance cost of the RTwP ruleset shall be low if we want to have a RTwP mode in PoE3.

 

 

Anyway, it's good news for Obsidian. I hope they get sales because they deserve it. And the Worldbuilding and Game Design they did for this serie deserves to continue even if the great wheel of RTwP is sacrified.  

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

 

 

Mostly I won't touch it because I don't like TB-only experiences (ironic because back in the 90s I loved TB games like Fallout, FFT, whatnot). This is not meant to be spiteful, just not my cup of tea. Who knows, maybe some higher-up at Obsidian is making some cold calculus about whether or not the # of RtwP fans they would lose would be made up for by the # of TB fans they gain. I hope not, because I like PoE as a world and would be sad if I missed out on it because they decided to lean into a game mechanic I didn't like.

But this is exactly why I (and I suspect quite a number of others) will be so very angry. Right now the PoE series is the ONLY old-school classic RPG made by a reputable major developer that uses RTwP. Every single other game in this category is TB. So taking away my one and only RTwP game to reward the "every game must be TB" crowd would seriously piss me off.

[rjshae]

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

 

I'd rather see a "Fallout: Tactics"-style game with TB combat that is independent of the main series.

[kanisatha]

 

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

 

I'd rather see a "Fallout: Tactics"-style game with TB combat that is independent of the main series.

Exactly! If you want to make a TB game in the PoE setting, go make *that* game. A new game. Don't ruin a franchise that is precious to fans of RTwP, precious precisely because they cannot get that anywhere else.

[InsaneCommander]

 

 

This could be the confirmation that if TB and RTwP have too different rulesets, PoE3 would likely be TB only.

 

Which is Okay, I suppose, provided that their TB design would be as good as RTwP one.

 

But we should be aware that action-per-turn approach (even with action points or several actions per turn) is likely to be the ultimate doom of RTwP.

In my opinion, only dynamic turn approach is close enough to RTwP to avoid high maintenance costs between the 2 branches of the ruleset. Maintenance cost of the RTwP ruleset shall be low if we want to have a RTwP mode in PoE3.

 

 

Anyway, it's good news for Obsidian. I hope they get sales because they deserve it. And the Worldbuilding and Game Design they did for this serie deserves to continue even if the great wheel of RTwP is sacrified.

If PoE3 is TB-only then I will not touch it, not because I won't play any TB game but because I will consider it to be Obsidian throwing us RTwP fans under the bus.

 

 

Mostly I won't touch it because I don't like TB-only experiences (ironic because back in the 90s I loved TB games like Fallout, FFT, whatnot). This is not meant to be spiteful, just not my cup of tea. Who knows, maybe some higher-up at Obsidian is making some cold calculus about whether or not the # of RtwP fans they would lose would be made up for by the # of TB fans they gain. I hope not, because I like PoE as a world and would be sad if I missed out on it because they decided to lean into a game mechanic I didn't like.

 

 

I played very little turn based. Battles seem to take significant longer and since you don't have AI, I'll probably stick to RTwP. I wouldn't like a TB only PoE3, but it's better than no PoE3. Worst case scenario would be, since it wouldn't be crowdfunded, I'd wait for some time before buying. Let's see what people say about TB after they beat the game again.

 

Edit:

 

And I've read on this forum that Obsidian is leaning toward TB for POE3 because of this.

Is that information from Obsidian?

Edited January 30, 2019 by InsaneCommander

[Frog Man]

Don’t think you need to be an oracle to know Obsidian is strongly considering turn based for future Eora-style games, especially given Josh’s preference for it, background of tabletop RPGs of devs there, and their recent experiment.

 

Shoot, even if none of that was true, look at Divinity 2’s sales numbers. That game destroyed, and I think virtually everything about Deadfire was better.

 

TB wouldn’t be a problem for me. After playing several hundred hours in both games, I’m finding POTD TB run on Deadfire incredibly fun. Slowing everything down considerably is really highlighting all the intricate systems and design of combat that often gets glossed over and missed even with slow mode turned on in RTWP. Specifically, big hits and crits feel GREAT, I’m noticing each individual debuff my team is applying, and finally each character really gets to shine (as opposed to RTWP, where in my experience I deck out 90% of my teams activities with robust AI scripts and manually control a little spell casting here and there).

[Saito Hikari]

It's also worth noting that Divinity had incredible marketing. The kickstarter for it meeting its goal in less than 12 hours turned a lot of heads, everybody who backed it was given access to the beta (though I wasn't around for either game's funding campaigns, I've heard people had to back a certain amount to make it into PoE2's beta), and the previous game had very good word of mouth while I've come to understand that PoE1 had rather middling reception in the gaming community at large.

 

PoE2 in comparison... I didn't even know it existed until a friend bought me PoE1 out of a random whim after seeing how I enjoyed DOS:2 so much, about a month before PoE2 was released.

 

DOS:2 being successful because of turn-based is the wrong lesson to take. The environmental manipulation is probably the larger factor that got the game so much attention in the first place (even if it's not really that important in actual practice by endgame because of the stupid armor scaling), as that's something considered revolutionary by overall game standards that isn't seen in other games at all.

 

(That said, I didn't get into CRPGs until very recently, so if a DOS:3 and a POE3 were to exist, I'd back the hell out of both of them.)

Edited January 30, 2019 by Saito Hikari

[mydnightscrivener]

Its misleading to look at the added sales from TB and conclude that TB is more profitable, since you don't know how many of the original adopters would have not signed on if it was RtWP. While I prefer, for Deadfire at least, slow mode rather than turn based, if PoE3 was done for turn based from the get go (reduce number of fights, but increase the quality of fights, properly integrated initiative system) it has a lot of potential. 

[juanval]

There is a solid community who like RtwP and will buy PoE3, the same way they supported Deadfire on fig.

 

Is too soon to see if turn based combat mode is a success. It depends not only on the sales, but also on the resources Obsidian has spent.

 

In case there is a PoE3, with the current mechanics developed in Deadfire, it's possible to see the 2 combat options avaiable.

 

Edit: at this moment, Deadfire is at the 8th page of steam best sellers. In a few hours, all games change positions drastically.

Edited January 30, 2019 by juanval

[daven]

Will there even be a PoE3? Surely this is up to Microsoft now.

[Franknstein]

1. It has been brilliantly proven that converting a RTwP game into a TB game is perfectly doable. Don't see why that trick couldn't be performed again. Options for players – that's a good thing. Limited resources, blah-blah-blah, if that move attracts buyers it's worth it.

 

2. RTwP is part of the gig. Infinity games spiritualism and stuff. So I think it isn't going anywhere in any PoE sequel. That is...

 

3. ... IF there will be a sequel. Which isn't granted by any means.

 

4. D:OS2 is good because of co-op, if anything, I say. The combat there is ranging from laughable to plain boring. And I love TB games to death.

 

Now please listen what the good therapist has to say:

 

[bringingyouthefuture]

I would add that I pause so much in RTwP that it might as well be turn-based.  Will miss the chaos the RTwP with pause adds to the mix, and with the slow mode as was mentioned they finally perfected it (only took 20 years ; ).

 

I go for either - I think Obsidian games play very well as RTwP, but I think a game like Pathfinder would have benefited greatly from TB, especially since it would have been closer to the PnP.  I honestly like them both about the same, as long as they are done well - interested to see if people play POE2 more as turn-based or RTwP ... we should make a survey!!!!