Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[Slotharingia]

Thanks! I see you pass out information just as much as you dole out free games. I really wish the kingdom building weren't so much a pain in the ass. Still, I can't force myself to go auto on it, so I can't complain about the painful parts.

No one can blame you for that as it's half the game.

 

I think it's terrible personally and deserves more criticsm. I'm also fairy sure they know this or they wouldn't even have the auto option. Maybe they'll let people solve the endgame battles on auto too, instead of making them winnable xD

 

I'm almost certain it's bugged b/c in my two substantial playthroughs, I've been on stable the entire time in one although I did a lot wrong, and on the other one I ended up at troubled although I invested every free second on it, read all the guides, saved scummed and had it on easy. Probably half my playthrough was spent on it if not more. My stats were great, my towns completely built up, my advisors high level. This means it's either bugged or there's something involved in it that's counter-intuitive. I've also read that if you upgrade an advisor and their score goes below the one required to upgrade, you take an invisible hit. Since they often cause this themselves in the convo you have that unlocks the upgrade, it's pretty much a trap, assuming it's even possible to upgrade them asap, which it's usually not, as they are usually required for problems and/or you don't have 2 weeks to waste. There are also way too many problems/opportunities leading to stat inflation and a chronic backlog of advisor upgrades if you try to actually succeed at them, which you will if the game decided your kingdom is unstable w/o telling you why or giving you any idea as to how to get out of the situation.

 

I'm starting to suspect there may be a similar mechanic where if your advisor has a lot more points than their level, you are penalised. Then there's the fact the DC's keep going up and up and you have a ton of advisors to level at the end. I've seen people get ludicrous hits from mandatory events they had to level advisors for specifically, which means the game can suddenly punish you for something that was irrelevant up until then (maybe they were trying to get the other advisors to catch up, or just didn't spend every available second levelling advisors), and it's one example why people end up reloading huge chunks of the game, artificially inflating their play hours. And finally, it's annoying imo that the stats gained from buildings and other things are not static, meaning you can have umpteen built up settlements and still have negative stats. If boni recieved from buildings and various other non-problem related events were static, people wouldn't suffer so much from scripted stat hits and it would be easier to free oneself from the downward spiral. Then again, that would only help people whose kingdoms were in decline from actually having bad stats, and not those who have great stats and great everything, but their subjects are complaining brats anyway. The fact that it's opaque/bugged/luck based also prevents constructive discussion, as people who don't run into problems invest a lot of effort into trolling those that do and accusing them of being unable to play or lying xD INstead of improving the system, Owlcat prefer to implement cheat modes and "easier" modes, when the difficulty (which is RNG, lack of explanation and possibly bugs) was never the issue, and letting people officially cheat to beat it is a cop out imo. I don't *want* to finish the game with a crumbled kingdom b/c I set it to invincible although I spent most of my playtime on it and did nothing discernably wrong. It's not satisfying and feels like the entire time was wasted.

[ShadySands]

They're adding a difficultly between easy and auto in patch 1.1

 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/1751232561618125823/

 

It doesn't change the fact that the system is poorly executed though

Edited November 10, 2018 by ShadySands

[Manveru123]

Yeah but you'll probably have to restart to enable it, if you're on Auto :/

[kastle]

I have the impression to relive Baldur's Gates, I had not had this impression with the other rpg iso that came out, even if some were nice, but we really get close.

Graphics a little better and some advanced classes.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Fionavar

[Epaminondas]

It's just a shame to see so much lost potential. The quest timers aren't so bad, but the combination with the kingdom timers is a real pain in the ass. If you leave your barony, then you can't do anything with your kingdom. That makes sense. I mean, even if you leave folks in charge, people will still just let events pass. You can wait to leave until the first of the month because any events that pop up in a month are open until the first of the next month. Fine, but if you're gone until the end of the month, you have to assign people to events and some of those people are the only ones who can do anything with other events, so you could still end up having events slam you. If you assign someone to a project that takes more than a month, that will ensure that you have him/her available for events that happen during the month. If you want to train someone, you'd best do it at the beginning of the month also, but then that takes away from time that you need to spend outside your barony.

 

 

It's not insurmountable, of course. It's simply poorly done. The adventuring is fun. Even with the bugs, and I've encountered them, the RPG aspect of the game is excellent.

[Volourn]

'Lost potential'?

 

One of the best games ever is not 'lost potential'. L0L

[Epaminondas]

It *is* a great game, Volourn, but that doesn't mean it couldn't stand some improvement. I can't think of any game I've played that couldn't use some improvement. This was an amazingly ambitious undertaking of a well-known module from an established pen and paper game. They *had* to include kingdom building and, while I hate some things about it, I still enjoy kingdom building. So, yes, they did lose some potential in the implementation, but I tend to be very forgiving of the deficiencies. Hasn't prevented me from playing so far, but I don't deny the complaints I've heard about how kingdom building operates in the game..

[Raithe]

I do think one of the flaws is the nature of all opportunities / problems needing to be handled by the first of the next month, regardless of when they actually appear.

So you can have nothing, then on the 29th / 30th, you suddenly get a couple. But if you're not paying attention to the kingdom then, or have the needed advisors busy with other things you're just screwed. 

 

I mean, fine, have an x day counter for each problem can make sense, depending on the problem But having it automatically be the first day of the next month without thought of when the problem actually appears is annoying.

[majestic]

That is being addressed with 1.1, events happening at the end of the month will have their deadline extended according to to the beta patchnotes.

[xzar_monty]

Does anyone have any idea of when 1.1 is coming out?

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

im proper enjoying this game. its kind of nwn3 but strictly single player. i like the little star trail camping menu as well. thats something id like to see elsewhere. main gripe i have so far isnt really a gripe. the game plays with a very straight bat. like poe pushes things in odd ways. this is just a straight-up fun fantasy lark with the odd narrative pea**** flush.

 

but id be lying if i said i wouldnt buy this type of game over and over.

 

also, lol, valeries total bait for newbs who think she'll make a good tank. hahaha. god her stat spread is awful. esp next to the borderline optimised reg + octavia and the overpowered-for-no-reason ekundayo

 

like whats going on with those random point-buy totals amongst ur npcs. it just seems at odds with what the devs are doing. i can understand jaethal having great stats to make up for the undead inconvenience but not the others.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

also, why tf are the queer romance options a femme half-elf girl and a masc half-orc. boooooring. i want more pretty boys and butch women to play with. meh, i might go dominate tristian with that pregenerated halfling cleric. that sounds like fun.

[bringingyouthefuture]

also, why tf are the queer romance options a femme half-elf girl and a masc half-orc. boooooring. i want more pretty boys and butch women to play with. meh, i might go dominate tristian with that pregenerated halfling cleric. that sounds like fun.

lol

 

edit:  would add tasteless but the vision of Tristian got me ...

Edited November 14, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[majestic]

also, lol, valeries total bait for newbs who think she'll make a good tank. hahaha. god her stat spread is awful. esp next to the borderline optimised reg + octavia and the overpowered-for-no-reason ekundayo

 

Oh, yeah. It takes some doing to get any actual value out of Valerie. She's not strong, as dextrous as a tree but has the charisma of a Paladin. That last one at least makes sense roleplaying-wise given her character background but who in their right mind makes a DEX 13 character for an archetype that is built around allowing a high dexterity bonus in heavy armor (and as far as fighters go TSS isn't even really good even with optimal stats).

 

As far as pregenerated NPCs in roleplaying games go her stats are probably among the worst, and that takes some doing considering some of the characters in Baldur's Gate or NWN.

Edited November 13, 2018 by majestic

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

She doesnt even get 13 INT for combat expertise and the cc manoeuvres. Double rip. At best u can make her a teamwork feat delivery system.

 

CONs always been a bit of a meh stat anyway cos dnds set up around avoiding damage, not absorbing it.

 

At least in bg, u got plenty of 'set x to x' items and 2e characters scaled far more from levels and class than attributes.

 

Ye i feel sorry for the unitiated approaching kingmaker. Games set up to punish ye for not knowing ur ****.

[majestic]

Thug has been fixed recently so giving her some Thug levels, Intimidating Prowess, Dazzling Display, Power Attack, Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses should make good use of that charisma.

 

Still not ideal but at least it makes her do something useful instead of wasting a party slot if you really want to take her along.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Ooh i didnt consider that angle. Most of my characters have 1-3 rogue levels for sneak attack/accomplished sneak attack abuse. Didnt think of doing it with palle... *ahem* valerie to apply her CHA to that thug thing - or the rest of those feats u mentioned.

 

Then again i didnt think of using her much at all. Lol.

[bringingyouthefuture]

So total newcomer question in terms of multi-classing - I have noticed most builds online only suggest taking a few levels here and there in other classes.  Is there any builds that benefit from a 50/50 split, or with the level 20 cap you just kind of shoot yourself in the foot when you do that?

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

eeeh, i cant think off-hand, im at work, but id say there are quite a few builds where - even if theyre not optimal - going 50/50, or close enough, would be fine.

 

splitting fighter/rogue would work - in fact its probably what you should do if wanted a 'pure' rogue archetype. ud get enough skill points to at least keep ur trickery and stealth maxed, ud get more hp, better basic attack bonus, still prob enough rogue specific feats to eke the best stuff out of that class. when i used to play 3.5e, i used to run a STR based rogue/fighter with DEX capped at 16. im thinking i might dust that one off for kingmaker at some point. 

 

fighter/paladin would probably work. thats what im doing on my current playthrough and it hasnt bitten me on the arse yet. iirc paladins get most of the really tasty stuff before lv 10 and divine grace unlocks at lv 2. if u see a lot of 2 lv paladin builds that will be why.

 

if you want to go for a rogue/wizard, you can take 3 in rogue 7 in wizard and 10 in arcane trickster. the companion Octavias already set up for this.

 

generally i wouldnt go for a martial/spellcasting combo without access to a prestige class. i think u need 17 levels in most spellcasting classes to access ur full repertoire. think fighter/wizards can use eldritch knight but i havent looked at that too closely.

[InsaneCommander]

Thug has been fixed recently so giving her some Thug levels, Intimidating Prowess, Dazzling Display, Power Attack, Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses should make good use of that charisma.

 

Still not ideal but at least it makes her do something useful instead of wasting a party slot if you really want to take her along.

 

Good to know. I'll probably take her for the romance when I play as LE.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Now i really want a high CHA fighter/thug who uses all of those feats. It sounds hella fun.

[majestic]

If you make such a character yourself you should probably use an Inquisitor for Stern Gaze. Gromnir talked about this build earlier in the thread.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

Nice! I got a lot of mileage out of nwn2's character creation. I expect to have the same fun with this.

[Hawke64]

Completed the game. The last two chapters were major pain, though for different reasons.

 

The House was bugged and the fog puzzles (the 3rd key) were not clearly explained. The last chapter had hordes of Wild Hunt trash mobs and made True Sight and Freedom of Movement mandatory in order to survive. The time limit didn't work (resting required no time), so buffing with minute-per-level-long spells and re-resting was viable strategy. On the bright side, it was great (would be great, if the game was 20-40 hour long and had less bugs), that the choices made during the playthrough affected the allies and the time you have. And the final boss was quite challenging, especially that AoE dispell.

 

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

right, instead of working, im tinkering with this intimidate based inquisitor/thug thing. im feeling less the gorum smash thing and more 'seductive, yet brutal crimelord of calistria' vibe with trickery domain.

 

i know i should go human but ive found a half-elf portrait i want to use, so half-elf it is. at least the adaptability bonus can go into persuasion.

 

I'm feeling something along the lines of 15 STR, WIS and CHA. as i progress, i can level two of those stats up to 16 then either STR or CHA up to 18. Racial bonus of +2 would go on either STR or CHA - probably STR, but i might go CHA for more 'flavour'.

 

this leaves me with 4 point buy for the remainder. so maybe DEX 12 and INT 12? i dont feel any great inclination towards the 13 DEX (dodge etc) or 13 INT (combat expertise) trees for this build, but maybe theres a feat in one of those trees im underestimating. i usually err on the side of being a skill point whore, but ur party can fill in the gaps most of the time. CON will prob just stay at 10.

 

so lets provisionally say either

 

17/12/10/12/15/15

 

or

 

15/12/10/12/15/17

 

Current plan is kinda basic - Thug 3/Inquisitor 17.

 

is there anything tasty im missing here? like, my background is 3.5 not pathfinder, so im prob missing a few tricks.