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Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

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The casters they give you out of the box are power houses, but have some...peculiar mechanics that you have to overcome to make them work.


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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AoE spells seem to be quite hard to use in this game. By the time the caster has actually finished any spell, pretty much all the bad guys have intermingled with your melee players even if you haven't sent the melee people forward.

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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AoE spells are my least used as even a controlled fireball is just too risky most of the time and you can forget all the burst spells. My sorcerer uses single target and foe jumping spells five nines percent of the time. 

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Free games updated 3/6/19

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Single target control/enchants work well for me. I don't worry about damage as much as long as I can crowd control sufficiently.


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Casting AoE spells during an encounter is really difficult which is why I've loaded my higher tier spell book with various versions of Chain Lightning. It's also a nice throwback to the good old IE games in terms of descriptions not matching what's going on. Oh so many spells saying they affect only enemies in their area of effect but, uhm, woops, sorry, did you need your party for something else than roleplaying a carpet?

 

I keep a few AoE damage spells on my main to use on groups that I can safely attack before an encounter starts. Coupled with being able to sneak attack due to Surprise Spells large groups of enemies evaporate into a bloody mist before they can lift a finger. Although... this is barely any faster than hacking the group apart by letting your party auto-attack while being buffed with Haste.

 

Another part of the issue is worthwhile enemies being virtually immune to spells anyway - and if they aren't then they're usually at least protected against Magic Missiles.

 

My Arcane Trickster sometimes looks in envy to Jubilost. Oh look, a terrifying Ferocious Devourer. Scorching Ray! Resisted. Magic Missile! Immune to Magic Missiles. Oook. Uhm, Hellfire Ray! Resisted. Okay let's sneak attack with the dagger. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss. Miss.

 

Meanwhile Jubilost is like "Bitch, please!", pulls out his Holy Bombs and goes like hit, 45 damage. Hit, 45 damage. Hit, 60 damage. Combat finished. And to add insult to the injury you can throw 20+ bombs. Sigh.

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Yeah, but at least they get access to a huge amount of feats that lets them differentiate a bit more. in 1st and 2nd, it was basically about gear, which made them a bit more boring to me. Now, you can go defense, offense, bow, melee, or some Frankensteinian build.

This is something I've often brought up myself to explain why I don't care for 2e D&D. I love playing fighters, and it was only with 3.5e that fighters finally got some respect. Not only the feats but also some really cool fighter prestige classes made playing fighters finally fun.

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Except a Fighter is - by himself - just as bland as it always was. If you don't multiclass him, the gameplay is identical to old D&D.

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The way to aoe in that game is to cast resist communal and then nuke your own party if you can't get in a quick zap before the enemies are aggroed. I seem to recall Reg often getting stuck in a casting loop that never completed trying to do that, because it deemed him too far away or some such.

 

Meanwhile Jubilost is like "Bitch, please!", pulls out his Holy Bombs and goes like hit, 45 damage. Hit, 45 damage. Hit, 60 damage. Combat finished. And to add insult to the injury you can throw 20+ bombs. Sigh.

My second char was an alchemist. The sorc I made on my third try sucked so much in comparison it wasn't hard to give up as I wasn't about to restart for the fourth time xD

nvAeseu.png

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Really loving my LE undead bloodline sorcerer.  I'm at the giant plant in the first world.  Been a bit buggy but its been fun as hell.

 

for aoe spells, i use them either at the beginning to start off combat or i get my rogue to "tank" a lil bit over so he can resist it while everythign else gets nuked.  then again i only use aoes on swarms or massive spawns of those damn spiders that just keep coming.

Edited by redneckdevil

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Pathfinder: Kingmaker - oleg_sh
Dear pathfinders,

While working on the Release 1.1 version we continue to pay close attention to the issues you keep posting to us (we can't miss the opportunity to say one more time how much we appreciate your help!). As we promised, in this hotfix we are addressing the most critical issues we have solution for by now. It's highly likely that we will have one or two more hotfixes before 1.1 version is ready to go live. The 1.1 version is scheduled for release between November 12th and 16th. We plan to have it available in Beta branch on the next week (we will soon post the detailed instructions on how to play the Release 1.1 Beta).

Please, be aware of the plot spoilers in the description below (in the Quest, Areas and Kingdom sections)!

Quest
  • One of the arguments to convince Jaethal not to sacrifice her daughter during the "Reveal My Destiny" quest was missing if the player chose to "destroy Urgathoa ritual" while talking with Taneka during Jaethal's "Chase My Shadow" quest. Resolution: fixed. If this argument is the decisive one for those players who tried to convince Jaethal, failed and then chose "attack Jaethal" instead, the quest result will be changed. Jaethal will appear at the critical point at the House at the Edge of Times area and act as if she was convinced to let go of her evil ways.
  • Tristian could be missing at the "Abandoned Keep" area in some cases which made it impossible to complete the "Betrayer's Flight" quest. Resolution: fixed.
  • The "Blood Calling" quest did not update in some cases if dialogue with Gwart was interrupted incorrectly at the "Flintrock Grassland" area. Resolution: fixed.
  • The "Hour of Rage" quest did not finish after completing the "Flintrock Grassland" area in some rare cases. Resolution: fixed.

Areas
  • Players couldn't interact with Ivar at the "Littletown" area after the battle. Resolution: fixed.
  • The direct transition by portals between areas didn't work in the last chapter (players could only move through the "Camp at the Capital Gates" area). Resolution: fixed.
  • The "Oleg's Trading Post" area in the final chapter couldn't be completed (the dialogue with Kesten Garess didn't start) if Jhod Kavken died during the "Season of Bloom" quest. Resolution: fixed.
  • Tristian could become uncontrollable after visiting the "Candlemere Tower" area in some cases. Resolution: fixed.
  • Characters couldn't move at the Capital Inn area after the romance event with Regongar and Octavia. Resolution: fixed.
  • Tsanna attacked the party at the "Shrine of Lamashtu" area in the final chapter even if players befriended and assigned her as one of the councilors. Resolution: fixed.
  • Players couldn't leave the "Capital Square" area in some cases because of the Pitax bard NPC which got stuck in one of the cut-scene. Resolution: fixed.
  • Epilogues finished abruptly at the certain endings of the game. Resolution: fixed.

Kingdom
  • The project "Research into the Nature of Curses: Armag" did not become available in some cases after Armag was defeated. Resolution: fixed.
  • The project "Research into the Nature of Curses: Davik Nettle" did not become available when Nettle's quest was successfully completed. Resolution: fixed.
  • "Warden Needs Your Advice" event couldn't be finished and project to rank up Stability stat was not given if certain answers were selected in the corresponding dialogue. Resolution: fixed.
  • "Magister Requesting an Audience" and "Regent requesting an Audience" events remained active after the meeting with the advisors. Resolution: fixed.
  • "A Mysterious Letter has Arrived at the Castle" event (letter from Linxia, "Deal With the Devil" quest) could not be completed. Resolution: fixed.
  • The game could get stuck if the "Coronation" event intersected with Hell Knight's investigation (the "Deal with the Devil" quest). Resolution: fixed.

Classes & Mechanics
  • Sorcerers with Sage archetype bloodline still could not select School Power and had the bonus automatically assigned by the fix. Resolution: fixed.
  • Saving throw wasn't counted successful after natural 20 roll. Resolution: fixed.
  • When alchemists had Gear's Rule equipped their bomb charges were restored every time players saved a game. Resolution: fixed.
  • Fighter's "Weapon Training (Crossbows)" was giving bonuses to attacks and damage with bows instead of crossbows. Resolution: fixed.

Items
  • The Crown disappeared after the use. Fixed: the Crown no longer vanishes once it was used and it can be used twice per day now instead of once.

Misc
  • Several Chinese and Russian localization typos were fixed.

System
  • The game could crash because of the memory lack when loading saves in the final chapter. Resolution: RAM usage is reduced while loading save files.

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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Except a Fighter is - by himself - just as bland as it always was. If you don't multiclass him, the gameplay is identical to old D&D.

This is... simply untrue. I'm in a pen and paper Pathfinder game right now with a fighter who is a melee master. He's not a tank, he's a monster masher. My cleric is the tank, which isn't the role I really wanted but it actually works very well. Meanwhile, the other fighter is a bow specialist. If we had another fighter, he could be the sword and board sort of tank. Saying that these three fighter types are the same is like saying that all clerics are the same because they're healers or all rogues are the same because they can either be ranged or melee. It's like saying that all Paladins are the same because [insert reasoning here]. ...And there are more fighter builds, I didn't mention the dual wield specialist who, owing to extra feats, is not the same but no less effective than a ranger. With the feats and builds out there, you can do all sorts of neat things now.

 

It's not just fighters who had their class broadened in 3.x and beyond. I remember when a thief's backstab had to be melee and he could only use a dagger. I remember when elves were only fighter/wizards. ...And, even with all that, fighters *can* multiclass. As you said, even if you feel a little hamstrung, the resolution is to use multiclassing rules that didn't exist before. The fact is, fighters are much more interesting to build now than they were in 1st/2nd edition.

 

After all that, I have to admit that fighters fall into my least favorite class category. At least for me to play. I like wizards. I always play a wizard

 

EDIT: Didn't finish a thought above which made things look weird. I tidied it up. I would also submit that Clerics aren't all healers, but that's how people used to see them. Clerics, due to spells, arms, armor, and other new factors, are possibly the most diverse class in the game right now.

Edited by Epaminondas
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I don't know how it looks like in PnP and I don't really care. We're talking about a computer game here, so let's stick to that. And the fact is, the biggest difference between multiple single class fighters is that they can use a different weapon. Just because they take different feats, doesn't mean the gameplay is engaging, because all of those feats are either passives or toggles. A Fighter simply does not have any buttons to press, which is exactly how it was in earlier DnD.

 

The multiclassing options are now much much better than they used to be, so if you start doing that, all of that bland feeling goes away, which is exactly what I stated in my previous post.

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Ah, it's clear. You're a crusader. Well, the game uses the same rules and feats. I imagine there might be those who disagree even in the context of the CRPG. For myself, I'll talk about the pnp experience and there's nothing you can do about it. I say that without rancor. I don't want a duel or vendetta. Just a difference of opinion on the build issue, I guess.


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AoE spells are my least used as even a controlled fireball is just too risky most of the time and you can forget all the burst spells. My sorcerer uses single target and foe jumping spells five nines percent of the time. 

 

Doing a playthrough now with the Flame Dancer, which substantially increases fire resistance in an aura. Now Octavia and my own PC (who gets certain fire spells herself at level 8 ) can throw Fireballs nary any consequences to the rest of the party, in addition to no-selling enemy Alchemists. It was a class that I became aware of the potential of when I managed the Ratnook Hill encounter at level four.

Edited by Agiel
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"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.”

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

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"Always write angry letters to your enemies. Never mail them."

 

-James Fallows

 

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I did slightly exaggerate how useless they are with this being the internet and all. I do often open combat with a fireball but once the melee commences. Maybe I can dip a companion into that sub class in a future playthrough

 

Today, I hit the most annoying quest I've come across maybe ever (again with the hyperbole). It's the one with the Hellknights and I'm either given terrible choices or choices that don't matter. 


Free games updated 3/6/19

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I did slightly exaggerate how useless they are with this being the internet and all. I do often open combat with a fireball but once the melee commences. Maybe I can dip a companion into that sub class in a future playthrough

 

Today, I hit the most annoying quest I've come across maybe ever (again with the hyperbole). It's the one with the Hellknights and I'm either given terrible choices or choices that don't matter. 

 

The quest that lingers because you have to wait for various timed events to occur.

Then it comes down to which choice of devil respecting types you want to deal with - The tyrannical LAW is everything and torture and intimidation is the way to implement it, or the Hey, Money Gets Us Souls type.


"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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My biggest gripes about that quest so far are...

 

 

that I couldn't get rid of them in the first place because no matter what option I pick they do their investigation anyway. Then when I find them harassing my subjects I can't stop them or kill them even though I gave the order to my guards to arrest her. They don't even pull the invisibility get away trick that they like to use for those situations and instead the leader just back talks you and just walks away. If they're going to railroad me to play this thing out one way then they should hide the track better. 

 

 

 

I hear the rest of it isn't so great either


Free games updated 3/6/19

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My biggest gripes about that quest so far are...

 

 

that I couldn't get rid of them in the first place because no matter what option I pick they do their investigation anyway. Then when I find them harassing my subjects I can't stop them or kill them even though I gave the order to my guards to arrest her. They don't even pull the invisibility get away trick that they like to use for those situations and instead the leader just back talks you and just walks away. If they're going to railroad me to play this thing out one way then they should hide the track better. 

 

 

 

I hear the rest of it isn't so great either

Definitely one of the worst quests in the game, with a big middle finger feeling to it lmao. IDK if they fixed it, but when I played it you basically had to pick the choice opposite to your own alignment to complete it in a way that made any sense at all.

nvAeseu.png

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I'm increasingly irritated by how intrusive kingdom building is on my adventuring. Before, it sucked that I couldn't do things like get a new territory or increase an advisors stats without risking a whole slew of bad events failing while time passed. However, if you get too far away, you don't even see the events. So, I was out in Varnhold trying to adventure and those events hits me out of nowhere. I really wish they had fine tuned kingdom building better.


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wtf it does not have Steam workshop? I have to fiddle with mods just to add character portraits? Does anyone know if its screw achievements?


I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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Mods don't matter for achievements or at least not on GOG

 

PS Ran into a bug where everyone is turning hostile in Pitax

 

 

seems to only happen if I make a deal with Annamede Belavarah

 

 

Edited by ShadySands

Free games updated 3/6/19

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I suspect there is a typo in the topic title. It should read "Pathfinder Kingmaker is (much, much) bugger then Deadfire :)

 

Sadly, that old joke is still true.

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I suspect there is a typo in the topic title. It should read "Pathfinder Kingmaker is (much, much) bugger then Deadfire :)

 

Sadly, that old joke is still true.

At least the final boss spawns.

 

wtf it does not have Steam workshop? I have to fiddle with mods just to add character portraits? Does anyone know if its screw achievements?

No you don't. You can add portraits the same way as every other game of this type, by uploading them manually in a correct location.

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