How good, mediocre or plain bad will Deadfire be?

[Big-Ben]

The biggest changes I remember from Baldur's Gate to Shadows of Amn was how much the mechanics improved. Things were more in depth but not outwardly hostile towards my young self (I was a lad of thirteen or fourteen when I first played.) and I welcomed these additions.

 

Josh has stated that the first Pillars was built upon nostalgia and that rings pretty true in my mind. It's a familiar setting (And that's not a criticism mind you) and it felt good to be playing a game like this again. But like all sequels a copy paste job doesn't cut it and I'm looking on seeing things expanded. This includes interaction with characters (Varying from like/dislike mechanics to possible relations with a thirsty sword) and things like better combat encounters with a myriad of new tools to accomplish said encounters. 

[DragonWiz]

I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 

[Ganrich]

I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 

 

Fear not.  The devs have said that PoE1 was more dark than they intended.  Animancy being the bane of all Eora was apparent in many PoE 1 quests, and they are going to show its good sides in Deadfire.  We won't have Hollowborns all over, and no trees full of corpses.  I expect the tone of this game to be much lighter, but serious when it needs to be.  I don't think it will be goofy like NWN2 OC could be, but it won't be as dark as the PoE1.  Though some PoE1 companions may have some negative outcomes if they make an appearance... that depends largely on how you left them in PoE1 and if they even show up. 

[Voss]

Oh no, I wasn't saying that I was expecting Deadfire to be a Baldur's Gate 2. No, if I wanted to play a game like Baldur's Gate 2 then I would play... Baldur's Gate 2! But I want to play Deadfire!

 

I was referring to the enhancement of Baldur's Gate 2 in comparison to Baldur's Gate 1. And I don't mean that I expect specific enhancements from Baldur's Gate 2 to be found in Deadfire (with one exception*). I was referring to the scale upon which Baldur's Gate 1 was improved and expanded upon by Baldur's Gate 2.

I think the big difference is bg1->2 involved adding a handful of things, like subclasses and higher levels. 

PoE1->2 involves complete reworks of entire subsystems (armor, particularly), and a lot of timing and resource changes, and a great deal of tinkering that the BG series didn't have, since it had to stay 2nd edition AD&D.  That isn't necessarily a BAD thing for Deadfire, but it is a significantly different process for the sequel.

 

Some very important thing are effectively starting from scratch in terms of development.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Voss

[Big-Ben]

I think any plot involving children dying can't really escape accusations of morbidity. I don't believe that Obsidian intended it to be grotesque in any exploitative way but no one here can deny that very bad things have happened before and during the game. Dead children isn't any fun, ever.

 

Certainly though we all must agree that a plot about Eothas messing you up and you chasing after him is most certainly a lighter plot than the first game!  No doubt we'll meet our share of unsavory characters but again I trust Obsidian to not delve into exploitation.

 

We all want that talking sword though am I right?

[injurai]

Who knows if this will live up to people's conception of BG2, I bet it will set some new standards though and will be a yardstick for years to come. Might just end up was the BG2 for a new generation of crpgs fans.

[Voss]

I think any plot involving children dying can't really escape accusations of morbidity. I don't believe that Obsidian intended it to be grotesque in any exploitative way but no one here can deny that very bad things have happened before and during the game. Dead children isn't any fun, ever.

 

Certainly though we all must agree that a plot about Eothas messing you up and you chasing after him is most certainly a lighter plot than the first game!  No doubt we'll meet our share of unsavory characters but again I trust Obsidian to not delve into exploitation.

 

We all want that talking sword though am I right?

Nope.

 

Anyway, dead and feral kids aside, the Dyrwood was pretty full of GrimDerp.  Any average citizen was likely to be 1) involved in religious persecution, 2)anti-intellectual and/or 3) a racist bigot (both in terms of other species and other cultures), and of course the player's... quarry, for lack of a better term

(starting as a person of interest and ending as unavoidable murder victim), lived dozens or hundreds of lifetimes indulging in atrocity after atrocity.

  PoE1 made BG2's beginning seem downright cheerful.  Every new significant area is largely another layer of horrible, and it generally isn't 'evils to fight in a heroic idiom' kind of horrible.  More institutionalized normality of badness that Joe Average Dyrwoodan (as laid out by Eder, Mr. Number Nineteen) just hang around and wait for it to happen to them.  And the natives and the ancients aren't any better (actually worse, once you delve into their background and Red Sands)

 

 

Honestly though, the beta content doesn't strike me as Deadfire being particularly lighter in tone. Polynesian caricatures aside, what's going on is fairly horrible and exploitative, in a very classic-cliche style for the Age of Sail. With bonus fantasy soul atrocities. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Voss

[DragonWiz]

 

I hope this game is good. I never liked Baldur's Gate 2, it was very depressing and sad for me. My favorite companion Imoen went from,"Heya, It's me Imoen your frrriiieeennd!" To "Everything sucks, Life sucks, I am depressed :(". The loss of Jaheira's Husband was just cruel, also the torture that Imoen, minsc, and Jaheira had to go through was just evil! 

 

Baldur's Gate 2 took such a nasty and depressing turn. Now I'm not saying it was a bad game or anything; I'm just saying that I disliked the overly depressing tone. Baldur's Gate 1 had so much charm and humor to it. For example the stupid NPCs' and their bombastic quotes; My favorties," I serve the Flamming Fist!" Or " Heya Heya Heya Heya".

 

I have feeling that Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to be depressing, I just hope it isn't THAT depressing. Anyways sorry for the rant. 

 

Fear not.  The devs have said that PoE1 was more dark than they intended.  Animancy being the bane of all Eora was apparent in many PoE 1 quests, and they are going to show its good sides in Deadfire.  We won't have Hollowborns all over, and no trees full of corpses.  I expect the tone of this game to be much lighter, but serious when it needs to be.  I don't think it will be goofy like NWN2 OC could be, but it won't be as dark as the PoE1.  Though some PoE1 companions may have some negative outcomes if they make an appearance... that depends largely on how you left them in PoE1 and if they even show up. 

 

 

Thank you! This is reassuring to hear. 

[Gromnir]

am not making a guess 'bout deadfire quality, but am gonna concede a modicum o' anticipation. 

 

...

 

modicum is perhaps understatement. something akin to the following would be more accurate:

 

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/989568875149824001

 

or 

 

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/980871513959288832

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 2, 2018 by Gromnir

[Karkarov]

Ug BG2 comparisons.  Spoiler Alert, it will not be BG2.  Let's judge the game based on it's merits, not it's ability to match nostalgia goggles or multiplayer RPG's based on comedy.

As for Codex, it isn't "strong opinions" that is the issue.  It is the completely backwards thinking, spam, and general negativity that is an issue.

[master guardian]

Look at the difference between icewind dale (witch released after BG2) and BG2

 

BG2 :

 

- Story driven

- narrative driven

- companion driven

- huge enormous game 

- able to shape the world around you

 

ICE WIND DALE 1 AND 2:

 

- dungeon orientated

- very combat heavy

- long long long grind

- no companions that impacted narrative

 

The end result:

 

BG2 - the best RPG of all time BY FAR

 

ICEWIND DALE - killed of interest in crpgs until Pillars of Eternity

[Boeroer]

I liked Icewind Dale I and also II pretty much. Icewind Dale II is also in the list of the 100 top RPGs of all time at number 76 (while BG is at 35 and BGII at 3 if I remember correctly).

[Fluffle]

Erhm okay again, I only drew the comparison to Baldur's Gate, because I wanted to say that Baldur's Gate 2 expanded upon and improved Baldur's Gate 1.

 

And I think that Deadfire will be expanding upon and improve Pillars of Eternity on a similar scale (that does NOT mean in the very same way!)

 

By no way, did I mean to imply, that Deadfire is going to be like Baldur's Gate 2. And I did NOT mean that Deadfire will bring the exact same improvements that Baldur's Gate 2 had. And while I do love the Baldur's Gate trilogy for what it is, I don't want Deadfire just to try to be a Baldur's Gate 2. I think and I hope and I expect that Deadfire will be able to stand its own ground and maybe it will even become the new reference for this kind of game.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Fluffle

[daven]

ed

Edited May 2, 2018 by daven

[Knoebroesel]

I have high hopes for Deadfire!

 

I couldn't take part in the beta but I watched 'Let's play!'s and every video or article about it that I could find, and so far I have a very good feeling that Deadfire will indeed deliver on the promises it made.

 

I hope it will improve on Pillars in the same way that Original Sin 2 improved on Original Sin - all the building blocks are there, and now it will be interesting to see what Obsidian did with them. I cannot wait to play it and see for myself!

 

... a shame that GOG users cannot preload, though.

[Tattyblue]

In the beginning the forum will sing its praises as is their usual play. But the metacritic rating will not exceed or match Pillars (89). Nor will its steam rating be as high (85% positive)

 

A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics. They will be looking for pillars and will be getting something very different. Many of the reviewers like IGN will probably punish the game's review score for the change in tone.

 

I feel like sales will be similar to the first game but it will not grow the IP in popularity. In the start the game will be great for the beta super fans (Boeroer) who will love it no matter what, and it will be mediocre to the people who liked Pillars but do not like all the changes (myself). I dont think anyone will think its bad well maybe (Sonicmage)

Edited May 2, 2018 by Tattyblue

[Wormerine]

I really can’t predict how much I will be enjoying Deadfire. I expect it to be much better than PoE, but will it be enough? PoE had a benefit of being “the first”, which comes with a lot of forgiveness. I am still shocked how high it was rated - yes, it was a very successful kickstarter (both in funding and delivery), and managed to revive the old genre without feeling stale or dated, but it had many many flaws.

 

It reminds me of Firaxis XCOM situation. The reboot was a broken mess - it was filled not only with bad design decisions, but gamebreaking bugs, many of which survived expansion and patches. Critics loved it, audience loved it - it was fresh, nostalgic, and any faults it had were overshadowed by how refreshing it was to be playing game like that again. XCOM2 is a far better game, specially with the expansions and while reception has been positive, I noticed critics and fans having a bigger reservation - some design issues were left over, many of the bugs were still present, frustrations with the game were easier to recognise this time around. Instead of fixing core issues, new mechanics were added (stealth/timers), which clashed with elegance of the game and made it easier to notice issues that the game has, rather than removing them.

 

My point here is, that to me it depends on how much Deadfire will improve upon PoE. Will factions and companions still ring hollow? Will items and combat encounters be forgettable? Will writing have a better pacing and individual story elements flow better together? Luckily, from what we have seen so far, game has been improved a lot and many mechanics have been reinvented, instead of simply expanded upon. From relation ship system, to ship exploration and combat, the game seems to be filled with fresh ideas, which should give Deadfire its own identity. While I don’t like every change mechanicly Deadfire looks solid. Story wise we didn’t see much, but usually that’s Obsidians the strong suit. I am convinced it is worth a buy, but have no idea if It will end up in my RPG pedestal.

[master guardian]

In the beginning the forum will sing its praises as is their usual play. But the metacritic rating will not exceed or match Pillars (89). Nor will its steam rating be as high (85% positive)

 

A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics. They will be looking for pillars and will be getting something very different. Many of the reviewers like IGN will probably punish the game's review score for the change in tone.

 

I feel like sales will be similar to the first game but it will not grow the IP in popularity. In the start the game will be great for the beta super fans (Boeroer) who will love it no matter what, and it will be mediocre to the people who liked Pillars but do not like all the changes (myself). I dont think anyone will think its bad well maybe (Sonicmage)

 

I think you have jumped the gun a bit here. You are speaking as though you have a crystal ball witch you obviously dont. 

 

From what i can tell the only noticeable changes are the casting system and resting (mainly how resting affects casting).

 

Yes i do wish they left casting alone but i may possibly be thinking that way because " I would rather stick with what i know", eg now i have to go through the hassle of relearning the casting system again and finding out how it works best. This will take time and could be considered work that i wouldn't have to do had they not changed the casting system hence why im pissed off.

 

Only time will tell if i am happy with the new changes. Even after playing the BETA my mind is not entirely made up on the new changes.

 

Having said that i cant see OBS going backwards with this. They have definitely improved on the narrative, graphics and not included stupid mistakes like they did in pillars one with that second "big " city that was a complete flop. They will have one big "Athkatla" style city now.

 

In my humble opinion what will make Deadfire will be the story and narrative. Will it be as immersive as BG2. This will be the absolute test.

[Boeroer]

Speaking of super fan:

 

You obviously didn't read my critical posts when the beta came out... I mean Gromnir screamed "hyperbole" more than once...

 

And while beta4 is a lot better than beta1 (and one had time to adapt and shake off some nostalgia) also my newest posts weren't full of praise. There's stuff I like a lot and stuff where I think a change was uncalled for or simply for the worse.

 

I just think that voting Deadfire down only because Obsidian tries to balance things and removes OP mechanics is a bit silly.

[Wormerine]

A game can change its setting, it can change its tone, it can change its mechanics, but it will lose fans when it does all 3 in its very next sequel. Many non super fans who did not follow it for weeks or months on end will not understand the need for changes on many mechanics.

 

As I have written my post, while you were writing yours, I can’t help but notice how far our philosophies of what we want from a sequel differ:-).

 

I am curious to see how well your predictions will be. Another common narrative was Obsidian dumbing down the game in order to appease wider audience of PoE, with removal of health/endurance, smaller party, per encounter casting. It’s a complete rubbish, of course, but unless critics and audience are hardcore fans who want PoE to be as much like D&D2nd I doubt the changes will bother them. Overall, you make it sound as if Deadfire moved a lot from what PoE was - it plays very much the same, from little of what we have seen, the world, characters and quests seem to be very consistent with what PoE1 was. The difference is in finer detail, and while everyone will notice a more tropical setting, I wonder how many people will really see much difference in design changes.

[daven]

I hope it's pretty good, but come on it's a piece of entertainment at the end of the day. People make out as if it's some life changing event when a certain game or movie comes out.

 

Don't take these things so seriously folks!

[Ganrich]

Name a post-Morrowind Elder Scrolls game that didn't change tone, setting, combat systems from one game to the next.  I am not saying that those changes made the franchise better, but the press and masses love them.  So, I don't think that is the issue.

 

I would worry more about class balance at launch, and whether the narrative hook is good enough.

[hilfazer]

I just think that voting Deadfire down only because Obsidian tries to balance things and removes OP mechanics is a bit silly.

 

Maybe, but if this balancing is making game more boring and less worth exploring (bye bye Backlash Bedlam) then i can understand voting down.

[AndreaColombo]

Man that nerf to the Bedlam still stings...!

[Boeroer]

So the whole game turned bad all of a sudden because one single build option that was unarguably overpowered is impossible now? Guys...

 

And it's me who's asking that (rethorical question) - the guy who posted that build in the first place.

 

Leaving that option in would just lead to a game where everybody who wants to play a melee cipher plays a retaliation cipher. So boring. The game gets actually better once you nerf such things. Just a tiny bit, but better balance makes a game better overall. You just have to let go of that (in this case nonsensical) feeling of loss to see it.

 

Just a sidenote: it's Backlash Beldam (like hag or old woman), not Bedlam (like chaos).