Your Preferences in RPGs...?

[Keyrock]

I couldn't get into Nier either, but I don't think an RPG is defined by character creation. What is a 'true' RPG to you?

I hesitate to call Nier: Automata a RPG, though.  It's kind of hard to define that game since it's a mashup of a bunch of different genres. 

 

I used to think that stat and skill progression were what defined RPGs, but those systems are in pretty much every game these days, so who knows?  As for me personally, I always harken back to my pen & paper RPG playing days and remember what made those sessions fun.  It usually wasn't combat or stat or skill management, instead it was meeting NPCs, the banter between party members, trying creative solutions to obstacles, and scrambling when things went horribly horribly wrong.  Of course, much of that depended on having a good GM who could adjust things on the fly and accommodate unorthodox proposals.  It's really hard (if not impossible) to really replicate that in a video game.

 

 

I mostly stopped playing RPGs.

Because of "choices that matter" where the choices and consequences are arbitrary forced into the story without truly being mutually exclusive.

and because of the other thing I hate: the insistence of painting everything as morally gray. Things aren't always gray, sometimes they just are black and white, and trying to convince your audience otherwise does not make your story deep, does not make you a good writer.

 

Funny you should say this. I was playing Command and Conquer earlier to day and was reminded of how refreshing it was to have a obviously good and bad side.

 

I love the cartoonish over the top characters and campy acting in C&C.

[SonicMage117]

Shorter rpg's with not much grind (shave off that filler), memorable stories and soundtracks, decent characters at least. The lesser crafting, the better, also fun combat...

[Keyrock]

Shorter rpg's with not much grind (shave off that filler), memorable stories and soundtracks, decent characters at least. The lesser crafting, the better, also fun combat...

Agreed on all accounts.  If there's one thing I hate it's filler battles against trash mobs, which unfortunately is a staple of RPGs.  It's just a tedious waste of time.  Once you've beaten a particular composition of enemies, I wish the game just had an auto-resolve option (button) available.  Having to fight that exact same group of trash mobs 25 more times is so meaningless.  It's just a way for the developer to be able to claim "60 hours of content", even if 80% of said content is tedious meaningless filler. 

 

/glares menacingly in the direction of Nashkel Mines

Edited April 22, 2018 by Keyrock

[SonicMage117]

Yeah, I know what you mean. That's actually the reason I love Supergiant's games (Bastion, Transistor, Pyre) They are essentially somewhere around 12 hour games but everything has meaning at least lol

 

I have to give alt of credit to indies that I've discovered throughout the last 3 to 4 years, they've really opened my eyes to appreciate different things such as how shorter/smaller games are actually better off.

[Tanjaxxx]

 

 

If you're looking for a cyberpunk CRPG (Kinda gloomy Sci-fi) I highly recommend Shadowrun Hong Kong. 

As for vampires, Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines is from Trojka, and one of the best RPGs out there...you may also want to try their CRPG (Since the vampire one isn't isometric etc) called Arcanum Steamworks of Magic...aka, possibly my favourite game of all time (It's steampunk though.) You also chose your companions in Arcanum, your portrait, your own special background, race etc etc....

 

Now, this isn't an rpg at all, but if you're looking for something spacy, I recommend a strategy game called Stellaris. 

 

Think you'd love at least one of the following. ) 

 

Thanks for recommendation, these are some great games.

I have played all 3 of recent Shadowrun games, they are good. Especially Dragonfall, can really find Story and Glory in it.

Vampire Bloodlines is one of my favorite games, great combination of rpg, action, stealth. It is sad that we dont have more horror, vampire games. Teen suckers was a popular throphe some time ago.

Havent tried Arcanum, it seems to before the point when enought graphic is enought, but may be worth a shot.

And there modern Deus Ex, i never asked for this but it is something else than another fantasy.

 

I like Grand Strategy games (Galactic Civilization, Cities Skylines and such) this games are good example that you can have no story, but the history writes itself. Need to give a shot to stellaris at some point.

 

 

If you like making your own history, Crusader Kings 2 is one of my favourite games! With certain mods, you also get to create your own king/queen/duke etc and play them, and even have children that then take over after you die. :D 

[Tanjaxxx]

 

Shorter rpg's with not much grind (shave off that filler), memorable stories and soundtracks, decent characters at least. The lesser crafting, the better, also fun combat...

Agreed on all accounts.  If there's one thing I hate it's filler battles against trash mobs, which unfortunately is a staple of RPGs.  It's just a tedious waste of time.  Once you've beaten a particular composition of enemies, I wish the game just had an auto-resolve option (button) available.  Having to fight that exact same group of trash mobs 25 more times is so meaningless.  It's just a way for the developer to be able to claim "60 hours of content", even if 80% of said content is tedious meaningless filler. 

 

/glares menacingly in the direction of Nashkel Mines

 

 

This may be an unpopular option but, I wish all games had this mod where you just get to play the story and story related combat.....side quests too (if they're good) but yeah, let's skip the combat! (After first playthrough, just so we have more characters to pass on for the next game and such! WITHOUT grinding...)

 

....at least, as far as some games go. I really loved Skyrim's Combat Realism mod though. ) But, Skyrim's 'main story'.... xD 

 

I'm gonna be random right now, and tell you about how I first only played Skyrim without mods, and only did (more or less) the main quest (My first playthrough)........yeah, that 'ending' just blew. Not blew me away, but blew....later, a friend told me I should mod and do side quests, guild-related stuff and all that instead. And the game was suddenly glorious. xD 

 

Especially, with the alternative start mod or what's it called. The one that makes you chose where you want to start and who you want to be pretty much. You don't need to be the dragonborn at all...which was great! For some...ood reason. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

My pet peeves in RPGs after 19 years of playing them:

 

1. Trash mobs and filler combat - if the designers didn't think an area should be a challenge what is it doing in the game in the first place? Do they want me to play their game or not? Because if I'm playing on autopilot then I'm not really playing.

2. Excessive focus on combat mechanics as opposed to exploration and interaction - 'mass murder simulator'

3. Abundance of loot, particularly magical loot - makes magical loot completely mundane and nothing more than an optimization game

4. Percentile loot and progression systems - 'sword of 5% damage increase replaced by sword of 7% damage increase' - completely meaningless gamey mechanic

5. Persistent level scaling (across the whole game) - lazy replacement for actual encounter design

6. Full turn based combat - never seen it done in a way that does not eventually become so slow as to be a chore or deep enough to justify the time spent. 90% of the time you settle into a groove well before the end of the game where you win 9/10 encounters by doing a repetitive formula. At least in the Infinity engine games you could slam Haste, Fireball, Autoattack and barge through the easy fights in less than 10 seconds.

8. Level grinding - if you make me into a sweatshop worker to progress in your game, out the window it goes

9. Broken lategame - where the player is rolling over everything to the finale (PoE, Arcanum and many others)

10. Fake dialogue trees leading to the same outcome - save your energy and write 3 options instead of '7' that are actually 2-3

11. Excessive verbosity in dialogues - know when to reign it in (Pillars of Eternity I'm looking at you)

12. Rote storytelling - 'ancient evil returns', 'only you can stop it' -  this is more a matter of execution than content, all of this can be good, but it's usually a cop out 

 

A game that avoids this will do pretty well with me.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[lichtjahre]

1. Mechanical Depth, diversity in itemization and/or character builds. (e.g. Path of Exile, Grim Dawn)

2. A healthy dose of RNG to keep the game refreshing but don't make it completely depends on luck. (e.g. ToME4, Nethack)

3. Non-linear (More Freedom). (Witcher Series, Pillars of Eternity, Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2)

4. Slow-paced so I have enough time to think (Most games that use RTWP or Turn-based combat. Dark Souls 1 is slow enough for me despite it is real-time while DS2, 3 and Bloodborne are too fast-paced for my taste)

Edited April 24, 2018 by lichtjahre

[Wormerine]

An interesting world to explore, with interesting characters to meet. Ability to somewhat define my character and see the world react to it or be designed in such a way that I can project my intentions on an unchangable scenario. Engaging quest design - be it how it takes into account character, gives interesting choices along the way or just tells the story in engaging way.

 

That’s pretty much it. Finer details like range of customisation and individual mechanics or perspectives are up for discussion. I like them all from Fallouts to Mass Effects and Witcher’s.

[Katphood]

One thing that I rarely see in any RPG: stores/shops that aren't the very equivalent of a vending machine. 

 

There should be a synchronicity between loots and shops. Random loot often destroys this concept though.

[TheDogProfessor]

OP, I can't agree with you enough about cartoony art design and skimpy models. They really just ruin games for me.

 

For myself,

I want an internally consistent world with rich, well-thought-out lore. I also want intelligent lore, founded in anthropological studies, history, etc. A fictional universe can be really out-there, but I want the inhabitants of the world, and how they negotiate the world (culture, technology, etc), to be informed by reality. 

 

I want to be able to play characters with a wide range of backgrounds, motivations, and personalities. And when I can't, I want the character to directly important to the plot. This was perhaps my biggest let-downs of Fallout 4, where you're given a sandbox but also given a really pressing personal story that is fairly incompatible with that format. Examples of this being done well are Planescape: Torment, Torment: Tides of Numenera, and The Witcher trilogy. In these, the pre-made character is important to the plot (and to the world), and the character itself is what drives a lot of the narrative and thematic content.

 

 

Regarding combat, I don't really mind the style so long as it's not Pokemon. I want combat to take place actually where it takes place. Other than that, I've really enjoyed RTwP, Turn-Based, 3rd Person Shooter, and Witcher-esque combat styles. They just need to be executed well.

 

Two little gripes I have:

Something that I find really annoying is when characters use language that is derived from things that don't exist in the game-world. This is similar to my first point; I want the inhabitants of the world to really live in it.

 

Ridiculously OP items. By OP I mean compared to the other high-powered items in the game, ones that are so powerful it's hard to justify not using them from a game mechanics perspective. I really found the soul-bound items in Pillars of Eternity to be a bit too much. I liked some of the tasks you had to do to unlock their powers, but some of them in particular were way too strong.

[Tanjaxxx]

OP, I can't agree with you enough about cartoony art design and skimpy models. They really just ruin games for me.

 

For myself,

I want an internally consistent world with rich, well-thought-out lore. I also want intelligent lore, founded in anthropological studies, history, etc. A fictional universe can be really out-there, but I want the inhabitants of the world, and how they negotiate the world (culture, technology, etc), to be informed by reality. 

 

I want to be able to play characters with a wide range of backgrounds, motivations, and personalities. And when I can't, I want the character to directly important to the plot. This was perhaps my biggest let-downs of Fallout 4, where you're given a sandbox but also given a really pressing personal story that is fairly incompatible with that format. Examples of this being done well are Planescape: Torment, Torment: Tides of Numenera, and The Witcher trilogy. In these, the pre-made character is important to the plot (and to the world), and the character itself is what drives a lot of the narrative and thematic content.

 

 

Regarding combat, I don't really mind the style so long as it's not Pokemon. I want combat to take place actually where it takes place. Other than that, I've really enjoyed RTwP, Turn-Based, 3rd Person Shooter, and Witcher-esque combat styles. They just need to be executed well.

 

Two little gripes I have:

Something that I find really annoying is when characters use language that is derived from things that don't exist in the game-world. This is similar to my first point; I want the inhabitants of the world to really live in it.

 

Ridiculously OP items. By OP I mean compared to the other high-powered items in the game, ones that are so powerful it's hard to justify not using them from a game mechanics perspective. I really found the soul-bound items in Pillars of Eternity to be a bit too much. I liked some of the tasks you had to do to unlock their powers, but some of them in particular were way too strong.

 

Oh man, you sounded like me for a moment. Agree with pretty much everything you've said, especially about Fallout 4 being a huge let down. 

 

It had two pre-made characters for you to pick from, it follows an emotional story to which your character reacts to (yet, you probably don't because it's poorly done), the dialoge wheel they stole from Bioawere is god awful - Never liked it, but bioware does it alright with their games, usually - I really, really do hate the wheel either way though. And voiced PC's. It not only takes away how your character speaks, how you imagine them reacting (via imaginary voice) etc, but it also takes away complex responses....in Fallout 4's *defence* , a developer did say it was meant to a be a shooter game, not really an RPG....or similar. Also, I think he said this convivially AFTER Fallout 4 came out............

 

I'm not saying the game itself is bad, I'm not saying Witcher series is bad either (probably far from it), they're just not *great* as far as RPGs go imo. The story can be amazing, so can the character, but if there's no true *choice* on who you can play and what their past is (which can be either left to imagination, or kinda picked wile many, many options are present* ....anyhow, it's just not what I consider to be a *true* RPG then.

 

I say true and real lightly always. Because it's just my POV.

[Blarghagh]

I love cartoony designs, but they have to fit. WarCraft is silly, so it works. PoE wouldn't be able to get away with it.

[injurai]

Generally, to not be turn based.

[LittleRose]

1. I don't care much about the combat system. I love the variety the genre has to offer. But I hate too much combat in general. Divinity: Original Sin feels like a chore because there's a big battle every few steps. I can hardly avoid any of the encounters, because the monsters are blocking my path. I feel like I've spent 90% of the game fighting so far, and after all those hours I'm probably just a bit more than half way through the game, because all that combat keeps me from getting any quests done. Less is better sometimes.

 

2. I prefer my companions premade, if the game is party based. Selfcreated dummies are boring, and I just love the "friends on the road" feeling of games with well designed companions.

 

3. Little details that are just there to make the world feel more alive are awesome. I remember how one of my party members in Realms of Arkania stepped in dog's doo and lost a bit of charisma until she'd walked it off.

Or when Yoshimo pickpocketed an NPC in Baldur's Gate 2 on his own and even had a dialogue with him, suggesting him to retrace his steps to find his missing ring.

I also liked that poster in one of the Umpani soldiers' lockers in Wizardry 8.

Just give me those little things from time to time, and I love your game even more.

 

4. The world has to draw me right in. Arcanum, Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Morrowind, Vampire... all those worlds were unique and fascinating. But even classic fantasy settings can do that. Just take The Witcher, Arx Fatalis or the D&D games. I've also enjoyed space operas like Anachronox or Mass Effect 1.

Oblivion on the other hand wasn't drawing me in, though it's a TES game just like Morrowind. It was way too generic. Somehow I also don't really get into Wasteland 2, and I wasn't as fascinated bei PoE as I hoped I'd be. (I'm going to buy the sequel anyway. Maybe the part after the long introduction to the world will be more like it. The lore was interesting, after all. And I want to travel with Edér again.)

Which brings me straight to the next point.

 

5. Please don't try to recreate the classics in a new world. Those games were good enought to become classics because they found their own way. No "cheap" copy has ever achieved that. Do your own thing, be creative. You can only disappoint the old fans if you encourage expectations only the original can meet. You can say it was inspired by a certain classic, but never promise that it will feel exactly the same. It won't.

 

6. If I read anything about "procedural generation" in a game's description, I'm out. What's the point of exploring, if all I can find is generic stuff? If I enter the abandoned ruin of a long forgotten people, I want to breathe their history. I want to dive into the illusion that there's really been someone living there. Or praying, if it's the ruin of an ancient temple. If the place has just been randomly generated by a program, it's meaningless and boring.

Let me give an example:

When Daedalic showed "The Long Journey Home" in a lifestream, their representative said, he liked the thought that, if you saw a person stranded on a deserted planet and a spaceship was just leaving, you'd wander what was going on.

No, I wouldn't. Because nothing's going on. The game has just randomly placed them there. There's no story behind it. The scene doesn't mean anything. It's as hollow and meaningless as everything else in that game.

So, if you want my money, do something for it. Don't be lazy.

 

7. Don't leave everything fun out. Don't let your game become the original Dungeon Siege. It has no plottwists, not a single word of dialogue more than absolutely necessary, soulless companions (because they don't talk to you), and my party could clean an entire map on its own. It doesn't even have a real character system. It's just dull. I quit it because I was so bored. The only thing I liked about it was how the party members only drank as much from  a potion as they needed, saving the rest for later.

Edited April 30, 2018 by LittleRose

[poeplayer]

The climate, the climate of the game is the most important for me. A good example is Morrowind with all legends, remnants of a real dwarf race (the dwarves have disappeared under unexplained circumstances). Interesting tasks and quests.
I really like developed economics, for example in EVE online, where I can buy EVE Isk and co-create alliances with other players. Of course, to pilot a good ship, you have to buy and use a lot of skill injectors, but it's nothing compared to how much you have to spend to have a large fleet in EVE Online

Building a fleet is ongoing, you have to get the right amount of raw materials, there are longer and faster ways to do it. If you want a longer way, it is best to send your tower ships to asteroids and let them copy the resources, there is a second way, but you need a lot of currency (ISK) for that.

Then you only have to trade with the members of your corporation and buy raw materials in exchange for ISK, then everything should be fine This is good advice.

In RPGs such as EVE, you need to buy ISK, if you are wondering where you can buy them, check here: buy eve isk

 

Best ratings, I am a satisfied customer and I recommend, especially cheap ISK

Edited June 20, 2018 by poeplayer

[Harry Easter]

I like:

 

1. Personality tags, that can influence dialogues (thanks Obsidian and Larian!).

 

2. Backgrounds, that also influence the game a bit (at least change some attributes).

 

3. Classes.

 

4. Free character creation.

 

5. Interesting races (elves and dwarves can stay interesting too, as long as the details are good!).

 

6. Almost every setting (Fantasy, Post Apocalypse, Sci-Fi, you name it. Still miss another Arcanum, though. Or another good rpg with vampires).

 

7. Companions.

 

8. Turnbased-combat (best combat there is).

 

9. Different solutions to quests.

 

9. Smaller, but denser gameworlds.

 

10. Lots and lots of dialogue-options! Talking your enemy to death is the best way to defeat them!

 

11. Armour sets that are hidden throughout the world or a reward. With backstories! Same goes for weapons.

 

Edit: 12. Exploration like in ELEX or Gothic. It is also a good tool to tell more about the world via the environment.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Harry Easter

[Tanjaxxx]

I like:

 

1. Personality tags, that can influence dialogues (thanks Obsidian and Larian!).

 

2. Backgrounds, that also influence the game a bit (at least change some attributes).

 

3. Classes.

 

4. Free character creation.

 

5. Interesting races (elves and dwarves can stay interesting too, as long as the details are good!).

 

6. Almost every setting (Fantasy, Post Apocalypse, Sci-Fi, you name it. Still miss another Arcanum, though. Or another good rpg with vampires).

 

7. Companions.

 

8. Turnbased-combat (best combat there is).

 

9. Different solutions to quests.

 

9. Smaller, but denser gameworlds.

 

10. Lots and lots of dialogue-options! Talking your enemy to death is the best way to defeat them!

 

11. Armour sets that are hidden throughout the world or a reward. With backstories! Same goes for weapons.

 

<3 I can agree with all of these. :D 

[Tanjaxxx]

The climate, the climate of the game is the most important for me. A good example is Morrowind with all legends, remnants of a real dwarf race (the dwarves have disappeared under unexplained circumstances). Interesting tasks and quests

 

TBH....I never could get into Morrowind. I played all *the best* and *kinda best* RPG's out there but....Morrowind? I really disliked the 'dialogue' system. Which was a shame! The music was awesome and I also enjoyed some other features but....yeah. That dialogue was a game-breaker for me. :/ (Unlike many other games, I didn't play Morrowind as a kid. If I would, my opinion could have been different.) 

[Harry Easter]

 

The climate, the climate of the game is the most important for me. A good example is Morrowind with all legends, remnants of a real dwarf race (the dwarves have disappeared under unexplained circumstances). Interesting tasks and quests

 

TBH....I never could get into Morrowind. I played all *the best* and *kinda best* RPG's out there but....Morrowind? I really disliked the 'dialogue' system. Which was a shame! The music was awesome and I also enjoyed some other features but....yeah. That dialogue was a game-breaker for me. :/ (Unlike many other games, I didn't play Morrowind as a kid. If I would, my opinion could have been different.) 

 

 

Bethesda games work best, when you ignore the story most of the time. But yeah, the dialogues hindered Morrorwind a bit. A shame, since the world and story were quite intriguing.

[Tigranes]

Morrowind had great atmosphere, from the mushroom architecture to the music to the ambient sounds, etc., everything fit together to evoke a sense of an alien world. You don't get anything like that in Oblivion, which feels like a B-grade ren fair run by scary clowns wearing badly made masks (with, I guess, some kind of broken backlight installed). The dialogue system wasn't the best, and there can be other ways the game can put players off, but that kind of atmosphere is very rarely done properly.

 

All I want from a game is that it has very clear strengths, and that those strengths are about delivering a creative vision, rather than pandering to the player. A story-heavy game with awful gameplay is fine, it can have pre-gen PC or not, it can have romances or not, all that doesn't matter - as long as you can see the developer is trying to tell a clear story and has built the world sensibly around it. A combat-heavy game with horrible story is also fine, as long as again it is committed to delivering an interesting challenge.

 

What loses me is when the game feels like it's just sugary junk food designed to just shoot gratification at fast intervals. You want me to go through a video game romance? OK. But if you give me 800 flowers in my inventory then I just give them to this guy and now you give me a sex scene, what a waste of time. You want me to fight a million battles? OK. But if they're so piss easy that you could win half the time just left-clicking (actually applies to quite a few RPGs), then what a waste of time.

[HoonDing]

If you're supposed to fight a million battles, there better be an option to run/avoid combat entirely. Or better a button to turn off combat completely.

 

For all their faults, at least Divinity: Original Sin and Blackguards had hand-placed battles.

 

The worst games are those weeb ones where random encounters appear out of nowhere and you can't even run from battle.

Edited May 15, 2018 by HoonDing

[Skazz]

If you're supposed to fight a million battles, there better be an option to run/avoid combat entirely. Or better a button to turn off combat completely.

 

For all their faults, at least Divinity: Original Sin and Blackguards had hand-placed battles.

 

What prompted you to drop the whole "forum trickster god" shtick, I wonder?

[ShadySands]

Morrowind was the only Fallout with swords game I will admit to enjoying

[majestic]

I have a love/hate relationship with Morrowind. I started playing and hours later realized I was level 59 without ever touching the main quest. Then I tried playing that, got bored to tears and quit. Still, I'd say I got my money's worth from it but it didn't cause me to pick up any other Bethesda RPGs.