Josh Sawyer's tweets and teasers, part 2

[Blades of Vanatar]

Psychology is not necessary the reason. Maybe for the millenials but most gamers that I know are older and definitely are not into the BG/PoE style CRPG style games for DPS outcome. They are into the game for the RP experience.

 

Of course there are ALOT more younger players compared to us old timers so who knows....

[playerone]

 

 

 

 

 

 

And from a recent Kotaku-interview:

"So that has already been that way since Pillars I, but we still find that the majority of players make white, human, I think typically men, which is fine, but it's also interesting to see what they don't make. Almost no one makes dwarves.

We hear people say that they like dwarves, they like the dwarves in the world, everyone seems to be like, "Yeah, fantasy dwarves." But they don't make them. They want a companion who's a dwarf, but they don't want to make a dwarf. So it's an interesting sort of dichotomy where you see like, well they like priests, but they don't necessarily like making priests. They want to have a healer, they want to have a support character – but they want to make the two-handed sword-swinging psychotic.

We find this overwhelming tendency towards making devoted fighters who are the single weapon crazy people, and assassins. It's like the concept is very appealing, they do a tonne of damage, and people are just like, "Yeah, assassin. White dude assassin."

 

I make dwarves, truly I do!

I always try to play an unusual class and after getting my ass kicked a few times in the first fight, I start over as a fighter (or a rogue so I can scout ahead and don't get stumped by traps or locks). I'm doing it right now in the Deadfire beta. If you have to count on magic protection and good attacks that run out mid fight you have no choice but to hang back. That's a little like you're in the game's game if you know what I mean.

 

I look for characters that promise exciting interesting play and storyline. I don't play dwarves because they are (traditionally) slow and don't feel different enough to be compelling in spite of that. I've played Godlike in PoE but (I don't think) you can change the appearance so it hasn't become my thing. Everyone who plays is playing the same character and that doesn't appeal. I don't think I've ever played a human in an RPG. I've also never played as a white dude though I do in fact make the character resemble me as much as possible.

I currently have 3 play throughs as a dwarf. A Barb, a Battle Priest of Magran and a Chanter (Solo). I love Dwarves. Borreals for exceptional DPS builds and Mountain Dwarves for more of a RP/Story experience. BGEEs brought us Dwarven Defenders. Played that class first upon the EE releases. I have 3 close friends who played PoE, they all played at least one completed game with a dwarf. I guess they can track metrics these days via Steam and what have you but that they are saying no one plays dwarves and no one plays Priests seems very odd to me.

It doesn't seems odd to me. Play any MMORPGs and watch how many DPS they are compared to tank and healers (answers: healer and tanks are super rare) and the race distribution: dwarf is always at the bottom.

But this isn’t a MMORPG. I fully understand the DPS solo play of the MMORPG. POE is a completely different type of monster.

It's pretty obvious that most people like to play a character that is similar to their own physiology. It's basic psychology.

 

As for healers, same psychology applies, people want to be leaders, not support characters.

 

Of course this doesn't mean everyone plays like this but we are talking about averages, not individuals.

True, and a reason I made the post asking why people play the classes that they do.

 

I'd say that perhaps the DPS popularity is more commonly associated with a need to feel empowered and strong, being able to enforce one's will over others. A leader can be the healer/buffer/speaker like real life leaders who orchestrate the team to their strengths.

 

 

If by enforcing your will you mean specifically beating people up as opposed to nurturing and just enjoying the success of the whole team, yes, but leading from the rear is waaaay more puppet-master-y in game.

 

Of course as a player you're probably directing every single character either way. Maybe you imagine shouting orders. I do. I think people like the front-line because it means taking the most risk and enjoying endless individual, victories.

[Piero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And from a recent Kotaku-interview:

"So that has already been that way since Pillars I, but we still find that the majority of players make white, human, I think typically men, which is fine, but it's also interesting to see what they don't make. Almost no one makes dwarves.

We hear people say that they like dwarves, they like the dwarves in the world, everyone seems to be like, "Yeah, fantasy dwarves." But they don't make them. They want a companion who's a dwarf, but they don't want to make a dwarf. So it's an interesting sort of dichotomy where you see like, well they like priests, but they don't necessarily like making priests. They want to have a healer, they want to have a support character – but they want to make the two-handed sword-swinging psychotic.

We find this overwhelming tendency towards making devoted fighters who are the single weapon crazy people, and assassins. It's like the concept is very appealing, they do a tonne of damage, and people are just like, "Yeah, assassin. White dude assassin."

 

I make dwarves, truly I do!

I always try to play an unusual class and after getting my ass kicked a few times in the first fight, I start over as a fighter (or a rogue so I can scout ahead and don't get stumped by traps or locks). I'm doing it right now in the Deadfire beta. If you have to count on magic protection and good attacks that run out mid fight you have no choice but to hang back. That's a little like you're in the game's game if you know what I mean.

 

I look for characters that promise exciting interesting play and storyline. I don't play dwarves because they are (traditionally) slow and don't feel different enough to be compelling in spite of that. I've played Godlike in PoE but (I don't think) you can change the appearance so it hasn't become my thing. Everyone who plays is playing the same character and that doesn't appeal. I don't think I've ever played a human in an RPG. I've also never played as a white dude though I do in fact make the character resemble me as much as possible.

I currently have 3 play throughs as a dwarf. A Barb, a Battle Priest of Magran and a Chanter (Solo). I love Dwarves. Borreals for exceptional DPS builds and Mountain Dwarves for more of a RP/Story experience. BGEEs brought us Dwarven Defenders. Played that class first upon the EE releases. I have 3 close friends who played PoE, they all played at least one completed game with a dwarf. I guess they can track metrics these days via Steam and what have you but that they are saying no one plays dwarves and no one plays Priests seems very odd to me.

It doesn't seems odd to me. Play any MMORPGs and watch how many DPS they are compared to tank and healers (answers: healer and tanks are super rare) and the race distribution: dwarf is always at the bottom.

But this isn’t a MMORPG. I fully understand the DPS solo play of the MMORPG. POE is a completely different type of monster.

It's pretty obvious that most people like to play a character that is similar to their own physiology. It's basic psychology.

 

As for healers, same psychology applies, people want to be leaders, not support characters.

 

Of course this doesn't mean everyone plays like this but we are talking about averages, not individuals.

True, and a reason I made the post asking why people play the classes that they do.

 

I'd say that perhaps the DPS popularity is more commonly associated with a need to feel empowered and strong, being able to enforce one's will over others. A leader can be the healer/buffer/speaker like real life leaders who orchestrate the team to their strengths.

 

 

Isn't it one of the reasons the D&D Cleric was made into a heavy armor tank that could bash people's brains in with a mace, and gradually became an all-conquering, all-powerful meat grinder at higher levels?  Because nobody wants to be a wimpy healer?

 

I'm sure I read that somewhere about the original design of the Cleric.

 

Golly that's a lot of quotes

 

I know, right?

[Achilles]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And from a recent Kotaku-interview:

"So that has already been that way since Pillars I, but we still find that the majority of players make white, human, I think typically men, which is fine, but it's also interesting to see what they don't make. Almost no one makes dwarves.

We hear people say that they like dwarves, they like the dwarves in the world, everyone seems to be like, "Yeah, fantasy dwarves." But they don't make them. They want a companion who's a dwarf, but they don't want to make a dwarf. So it's an interesting sort of dichotomy where you see like, well they like priests, but they don't necessarily like making priests. They want to have a healer, they want to have a support character – but they want to make the two-handed sword-swinging psychotic.

We find this overwhelming tendency towards making devoted fighters who are the single weapon crazy people, and assassins. It's like the concept is very appealing, they do a tonne of damage, and people are just like, "Yeah, assassin. White dude assassin."

 

I make dwarves, truly I do!

I always try to play an unusual class and after getting my ass kicked a few times in the first fight, I start over as a fighter (or a rogue so I can scout ahead and don't get stumped by traps or locks). I'm doing it right now in the Deadfire beta. If you have to count on magic protection and good attacks that run out mid fight you have no choice but to hang back. That's a little like you're in the game's game if you know what I mean.

 

I look for characters that promise exciting interesting play and storyline. I don't play dwarves because they are (traditionally) slow and don't feel different enough to be compelling in spite of that. I've played Godlike in PoE but (I don't think) you can change the appearance so it hasn't become my thing. Everyone who plays is playing the same character and that doesn't appeal. I don't think I've ever played a human in an RPG. I've also never played as a white dude though I do in fact make the character resemble me as much as possible.

I currently have 3 play throughs as a dwarf. A Barb, a Battle Priest of Magran and a Chanter (Solo). I love Dwarves. Borreals for exceptional DPS builds and Mountain Dwarves for more of a RP/Story experience. BGEEs brought us Dwarven Defenders. Played that class first upon the EE releases. I have 3 close friends who played PoE, they all played at least one completed game with a dwarf. I guess they can track metrics these days via Steam and what have you but that they are saying no one plays dwarves and no one plays Priests seems very odd to me.

It doesn't seems odd to me. Play any MMORPGs and watch how many DPS they are compared to tank and healers (answers: healer and tanks are super rare) and the race distribution: dwarf is always at the bottom.

But this isn’t a MMORPG. I fully understand the DPS solo play of the MMORPG. POE is a completely different type of monster.

It's pretty obvious that most people like to play a character that is similar to their own physiology. It's basic psychology.

 

As for healers, same psychology applies, people want to be leaders, not support characters.

 

Of course this doesn't mean everyone plays like this but we are talking about averages, not individuals.

True, and a reason I made the post asking why people play the classes that they do.

 

I'd say that perhaps the DPS popularity is more commonly associated with a need to feel empowered and strong, being able to enforce one's will over others. A leader can be the healer/buffer/speaker like real life leaders who orchestrate the team to their strengths.

Isn't it one of the reasons the D&D Cleric was made into a heavy armor tank that could bash people's brains in with a mace, and gradually became an all-conquering, all-powerful meat grinder at higher levels? Because nobody wants to be a wimpy healer?

 

I'm sure I read that somewhere about the original design of the Cleric.

Golly that's a lot of quotes

I know, right?

Time for part 3, mods?

[Night Stalker]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

Edited March 19, 2018 by Night Stalker

[Aramintai]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

Nice! Never was a fan of that change.

[JerekKruger]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

I for one an really pleased with this change.

[Juodas Varnas]

 

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

Nice! Never was a fan of that change.

MUSCLE WIZARDS MAKING A COMEBACK!

[bleedthefreak]

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it. 

[Achilles]

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I never played that game. What was it called?

[rothamon81]

http://imgur.com/iUqSR2c

[Blades of Vanatar]

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I play PoTD and never/very rarely max Might scores. Amazingly I still get through all fights.

[Achilles]

 

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I play PoTD and never/very rarely max Might scores. Amazingly I still get through all fights.

How is this even possible?

[Andraste]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

 

Praise Eothas! My Cipher will no longer be terrible, and that Druid/Ranger multiclass I want to make out of my first character is looking like it might actually be viable now.

 

(Probably not a combination for power gamers regardless of how Might and Resolve work, but I love the roleplaying possibilities and at least she'll be able to do damage with weapons this way.)

[Sedrefilos]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

Yisss!!! Originality sustained!

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

 

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I play PoTD and never/very rarely max Might scores. Amazingly I still get through all fights.

How is this even possible?

Strategy, party synergy and mostly just using common sense.

[Achilles]

 

 

 

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I play PoTD and never/very rarely max Might scores. Amazingly I still get through all fights.

How is this even possible?

Strategy, party synergy and mostly just using common sense.

[Lord_Mord]

Rejoice! All your whining and nagging was heard. So onwards to more whining and nagging.

[Yosharian]

It's a huge buff for druids.

[DexGames]

 

 

So back to every single character needing a high Might score. Got it.

I play PoTD and never/very rarely max Might scores. Amazingly I still get through all fights.

How is this even possible?

 

Is this even a question ?

 

 MUSCLE WIZARDS MAKING A COMEBACK!

"Muscle Wizards" is an invention, by people who couldn't read a Text-Based Description. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by DexGames

[IndiraLightfoot]

Might is coming back in the next backer beta: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/975553952929296384

Although I was a proponent for having Strength a long time ago during the PoE1 backer beta, I've now come around and seen the hands of light (Boeroer ). This change we'll mean that Pillars of Eternity will keep one of the features that made it a bit unique in the history of CRPGs, for starters, and I have a feeling it will also open up new and in a way renew a few of the older PoE builds, steeped in the Deadfire ruleset.

[Wormerine]

 

MUSCLE WIZARDS MAKING A COMEBACK!

 

"Muscle Wizards" is an invention, by people who couldn't read a Text-Based Description.

This one?

Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic.

 

Nah, we all read it. Just today my high might mage had an option to lift a guy with his bare hands threatening to crush his skull.

 

That said, it’s probably for the best. While I prefer strenght/resolve conceptually, classes weren’t designed for that system from ground up.

[JerekKruger]

Rejoice! All your whining and nagging was heard. So onwards to more whining and nagging.

 

The original change to Strength was, at least in part, due to whinging and nagging. In their patch notes where they introduced this change Obsidian said:

 

 From a *~ roleplaying ~* perspective, it feels weird to have muscley wizards casting high damage fireballs because they can bench 350 lbs.

 

This was a strange thing to say given that Obsidian had made it clear that Might could represent both spiritual and physical strength, and hence a high Might Wizard needn't be physically strong at all.

 

Of course it makes a lot more sense if you view it as Obsidian's way of telling people they're giving them what (they think) they want i.e. caving into whinging and nagging (about muscle wizards). Josh later stated he was surprised by how many people complained about the Might/Strength change.

[Yosharian]

 

 MUSCLE WIZARDS MAKING A COMEBACK!

"Muscle Wizards" is an invention, by people who couldn't read a Text-Based Description. 

 

 

Come on man.  Don't resurrect this sodding topic.

[JerekKruger]

Nah, we all read it. Just today my high might mage had an option to lift a guy with his bare hands threatening to crush his skull.

 

I'm hoping Obsidian will handle the use of Might in dialogues better this time round.

That said, you were never forced to pick the Might options if you didn't think they fitted your character concept. If your concept of your Wizard is that he's spiritually rather than physically powerful then don't pick the option where he threatens to crush someone's skull. It's not really all that different from not picking Cruel dialogue options when your character concept is kind.