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[Amentep]

Sorry I don't want to cater to any side BUT having something simple to be able to control by more complex periphery is easy without changing its core function, other way not so much.

 

Lets take example from cars

 

You can control car with automatic shifting almost same in car with 3 pedals. Try drive manual shifting car with only brake and accelerator...

 

The problem with the analogy is that as I understand it, you have to have a clutch on a gear shift and you have to have a gear shift to to be a manual shifting car. 

 

You can drive a manual with two pedals (with either what volkswagen called the autostick system where moving the stick triggered a solenoid to disengage the clutch or with a product like the Duck Clutch where you press a button on your stick to disengage the clutch) but you're really just moving the clutch somewhere else than the floor and so I'm not really sure that the analogy works when comparing to video games.

[Jozape]

Game consoles are bad for games where aiming in real-time is important, games where the player types, or games where the player presses an infinite number of keys an infinite number of times per planck time. I can definitely see the dumbing-down arguments for those games.

 

Not for Pillars of Eternity though. Such games are well suited to game consoles as they're very slow paced; You are supposed to pause the game and issue commands while paused and so on. That does not require an interface with a dozen shortcut keys. That's nice to have but not necessary. Many RTwP games can be played entirely or almost entirely with a mouse.

[Chilloutman]

 

Sorry I don't want to cater to any side BUT having something simple to be able to control by more complex periphery is easy without changing its core function, other way not so much.

 

Lets take example from cars

 

You can control car with automatic shifting almost same in car with 3 pedals. Try drive manual shifting car with only brake and accelerator...

 

The problem with the analogy is that as I understand it, you have to have a clutch on a gear shift and you have to have a gear shift to to be a manual shifting car. 

 

You can drive a manual with two pedals (with either what volkswagen called the autostick system where moving the stick triggered a solenoid to disengage the clutch or with a product like the Duck Clutch where you press a button on your stick to disengage the clutch) but you're really just moving the clutch somewhere else than the floor and so I'm not really sure that the analogy works when comparing to video games.

 

I am not saying its impossible. I am saying that you will not have same 'fun' from driving it if you enjoy using clutch to reduce or increase torque. I am sure you know what I mean. To each his own I say

[injurai]

DONTNOD Presents Vampyr Episode 4 - Stories from the dark (Releasing June 5th)

[Humanoid]

You can totally use a keyboard with all modern consoles. If a specific game doesn't support it, then that's on the developer of that game (or whichever company they used to handle the porting) because the infrastructure support is there.

[Bendu]

The Surge 2 is coming in 2019 to PC, PS4 and Xbox One

https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/4954/announcing-the-surge-2

 

Really liked the first one, so I'm looking forward to the sequel.

[Fenixp]

Sorry I don't want to cater to any side BUT having something simple to be able to control by more complex periphery is easy without changing its core function, other way not so much.

 

Lets take example from cars

 

You can control car with automatic shifting almost same in car with 3 pedals. Try drive manual shifting car with only brake and accelerator...

Try playing a videogame on a device designed for inefficient typewriting.

 

... Oh, wait.

 

Seriously tho, unless the game you're developing is highly specialized, when you need more than 14 buttons and 2 analogue sticks for anything other than shortcut keys you should rethink your design.

 

That happens to be further reinforced by the fact that I have managed to bind controls of majority of old PC games to a pad and, while some of them were a bit clunky, most were perfectly playable. A well designed game just doesn't tend to need all that many control keys to be played.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Fenixp

[LadyCrimson]

The main issue I still have with controller vs. mouse/KB is the potential difference in inventory management systems.

 

I can't stand giant scrolling lists where I scroll and scroll to get to the one item I'm looking for (and if you exit the list and go back you have to rescroll again) and using the sticks etc. to move items from square to square to storage to square etc. is usually a much bigger chore/more time consuming than it is with a mouse, even with some one-button fast-transfer controller options. (edit - altho this is in part because I'm super-picky about inventory management...)

 

Although the point regarding fast paced/precise aiming etc. is also still true. Ppl good with controllers can be very good utilizing them but still can't beat the mouse for such.

Edited February 10, 2018 by LadyCrimson

[Zoraptor]

 

Seriously tho, unless the game you're developing is highly specialized, when you need more than 14 buttons and 2 analogue sticks for anything other than shortcut keys you should rethink your design.

 

It isn't just the number of buttons though, it also requires context. 'Console' fps typically lack leaning not because of an absolute lack of buttons, but because of a lack of contextual buttons- you have to use a left/ right button combo for left/ right leaning. Use those (shoulder, usually) buttons for something else and it's bye bye to leaning for no reason other than controller limitation.

 

OK, you don't need leaning in fps, but it is nice to have. Personally all my favourite fps have leaning, albeit I'm far from a fps fan ion general.

[Fenixp]

It isn't just the number of buttons though, it also requires context. 'Console' fps typically lack leaning not because of an absolute lack of buttons, but because of a lack of contextual buttons- you have to use a left/ right button combo for left/ right leaning. Use those (shoulder, usually) buttons for something else and it's bye bye to leaning for no reason other than controller limitation.

There's both context-sensitive leaning in games like Wolfenstein: The New Order or Far Cry 3 and leaning activated via button combination like in Dishonored - with added benefit of having analogue controls, so you can manipulate exactly how much do you lean. It's all about smart design as opposed to brute force design. In the past, when FPS games on consoles were starting off and controls were absolutely abysmal and unintuitive in them I'd agree with you. At this point tho, FPS control schemes on a pad matured quite nicely and there's nothing you can't do that old games wouln't have, aside from weapon shortcuts. (yes, including multiple ammo types/weapon modes, 10+ different weapons, inventory with useable items - see Rage or Doom 2016)

 

Although the point regarding fast paced/precise aiming etc. is also still true. Ppl good with controllers can be very good utilizing them but still can't beat the mouse for such.

It's true, but also rather irrelevant - putting aside the fact pads have analogue elements like pressure-sensitive triggers / analogue sticks so it's not like they'd be strictly inferior, being objectively worse at playing a SP game doesn't really matter a whole lot, challenge is still relative to the game in question and control method used. 'sides, when asked whether I want to aim better or have healthier wrists, well... Not a difficult question to answer, really. Of course, competitive MP is a whole different matter.

 

As for inventory management, yeah, you're right. I still think good filters and sorting is more important than input method, but using a mouse for such UIs is more intuitive and unless you want to design two different inventory UIs, they'll be reduced to work with directional input as opposed to full mouse control.

[ShadySands]

David Gaider has left Beamdog

Edited February 10, 2018 by ShadySands

[Chilloutman]

sorry, for me all that war controller vs KB/m ended when they tried to implement cross platform multiplayer in FPS (don't remember who tried that first)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Chilloutman

[injurai]

[Hurlshort]

I like the concept, but I think I'd get bored after about an hour.

 

Which says a lot about that C+ I received in Art Appreciation class back in the day.

[LadyCrimson]

Maybe I'm missing something, but somehow highlighting an area and going "click" doesn't feel like painting. Might have made more sense as photography. But it looks pretty and reminds me a bit of the old Myst/Riven concepts. Whether I'd like it or not depends on how well the exploration/crafting is handled. Is there enough to keep my attention or is it going to feel too empty for my liking etc.

[Labadal]

THQ Nordic's Biomutant, Darksiders 3, Fade to Silence and This Is The Police 2 are coming to GOG.com. Glad to see that not all publishers force Denuvo on us.

[injurai]

THQ Nordic really impresses me.

[Labadal]

THQ Nordic really impresses me.

Same, Titan Quest Expansion, Spellforce 3 and publishing Battle Chasers last. I'm interested in a lot of their upcoming games.

[injurai]

Personally I'm really pulling for a Destroy All Humans reboot.

[Azdeus]

sorry, for me all that war controller vs KB/m ended when they tried to implement cross platform multiplayer in FPS (don't remember who tried that first)

 

Wasnt that the Shadowrun game which tried it first?

[Tale]

Quake 3 used to do it on Dreamcast, so no.

[Oner]

https://www.chickenpolice.com/

[Zoraptor]

Dead Space is free on Origin. I'd give it a pretty hearty recommendation to anyone who likes shooters with a story, and you certainly can't beat free.

[Chilloutman]

 

sorry, for me all that war controller vs KB/m ended when they tried to implement cross platform multiplayer in FPS (don't remember who tried that first)

 

Wasnt that the Shadowrun game which tried it first?

 

I honestly don't know

[Labadal]

THQ Nordic bought Koch Media. That means Deep Silver and their IPs are now under the THQ umbrella. I didn't see this one coming. Metro and Saints Row are no back where they started.