Political Twelve Monkeys

[BruceVC]

"The meddling turned out to be closer to psychological warfare than cyber-warfare anyhow. The irrefutable evidence is that they were trying to, whether they actually had any effect isn't likely to be resolved."

 

Kanada, European countries, and a host of others all 'intervered' in the US elections in the same way.

 

It has also been determined that the US intervered in our last Kanadian election as well.

 

*shrug* The so called 'interverence'/'hacking' evidence that they've shared with us is that  Russia used internet memes and opinions to somehow convince everyone to vote for the 'wrong' candidate instead of the Chosen One time that the EU and others wanted. That is what the 'hacking' seems to amount to.

 

And, oh yeah,  DNC documents were released. :rollseyes: 

 

By same way, you mean with statements like 'I like/don't like this person' and not trying to hide where it's coming from? That's not the same as doing it with malevolent intent and hiding the source of the messaging.

 

And yes, I know we've done meddling in other countries elections (South America mainly), which is why it was hypocritical when we reacted as we did given that we got a taste of our own medicine.

 

Though yeah, it's very unlikely that Russian meddling actually was the main reason Clinton lost, the Russians were taking advantage of a host of things that already existed for some time.

 

 Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious

 

Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent 

 

Also most people outside of  North America consider Canada part of the USA, I would let the USA annex me if I was Canada ?

[smjjames]

What thing that happened in the Canadian election are you talking about? I don't pay attention to Canadian politics, so, I really don't know what volourn is referring to.

 

Also, the 'father disciplining a child' bit would work better if it was the French or British (depending on who you think is the 'father' of the nation), Canada and the US would be siblings.

 

I've only heard of the 'Canada is part of the US' thing as a joke than anything serious.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[HoonDing]

If Trudeau makes a pass at Ivanka one more time there'll be boots on ground next day

 

[Volourn]

"Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious"

 

L0L

 

 

"Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent "

 

They did investigate. 'Legalness' is up for debate. Plus,. the 'right' person won so there is no motivation to pursue it.

 

 

 

"What thing that happened in the Canadian election are you talking about? I don't pay attention to Canadian politics, so, I really don't know what volourn is referring to."

 

A lot of money changing hands through 'donations' and other not so subtle ways. As a country we have strived to limit campaign donations even by Kanadian citizens but here we found out more than a few Amerikan bigwigs (including people with connections to the DNC or Obama) were donating money to the Trudeau campaign amongst other stuff. if that isn't intervering than what is? There was muted news about it but not too surprisjng since the media loves Trudeau.

Edited November 11, 2017 by Volourn

[injurai]

If only some country would interfere with that style of quoting.

[smjjames]

Then make campaign donations by foreigners illegal if you feel that it's a problem.

 

If only some country would interfere with that style of quoting.

 

Lol. Though quoting can be a hassle sometimes.

Edited November 11, 2017 by smjjames

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, quoting and linebreaks are a disaster here, and the BBCode Mode doesn't really make things any easier.

[Blodhemn]

Guys Western countries like the USA generally only " hack or interfere " in countries that are not Democracies or are dictatorships....this is not the same as interfering in the elections of the USA which is an established Democracy

 

What  happened in the Canadian election should not be seen as interfering anymore than you see a father discipline  a child as abuse..its well meaning and not malicious

 

Canada would have investigated properly if there was real damage done or criminal intent 

 

Also most people outside of  North America consider Canada part of the USA, I would let the USA annex me if I was Canada ?

[Bartimaeus]

Actually, yeah, re-reading all of that:

 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[redneckdevil]

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

[Elerond]

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

 

They are also same people that determine what information is so valuable for country that it needs to be kept from public eye and therefore can't be stored on private server.

 

I mean if people don't believe them, then people should not prosecute other people for not believing them right?

[redneckdevil]

 

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

They are also same people that determine what information is so valuable for country that it needs to be kept from public eye and therefore can't be stored on private server.

 

I mean if people don't believe them, then people should not prosecute other people for not believing them right?

Seeing how Hillary isn't in jail, no prosecution going on right?

I mean the FBI said they looked at the servers and didn't find anything wrong with them.....only to find out they DIDN'T look at them and instead had a 3rd party look at them instead. Also it's very funny that the people Hillary hired to bleak her servers before they got turned over are also related to the company who investigated the servers for the FBI...

[Elerond]

 

 

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

They are also same people that determine what information is so valuable for country that it needs to be kept from public eye and therefore can't be stored on private server.

 

I mean if people don't believe them, then people should not prosecute other people for not believing them right?

Seeing how Hillary isn't in jail, no prosecution going on right?

 

 

I mean people who claim that sensitive information from security services is lie are same people who demand that Hilary should be jailed for treason because she potentially leaked said sensitive information. And they also claim that failure to prosecute Hilary is an example of government corruption.

[redneckdevil]

 

 

 

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

They are also same people that determine what information is so valuable for country that it needs to be kept from public eye and therefore can't be stored on private server.

 

I mean if people don't believe them, then people should not prosecute other people for not believing them right?

Seeing how Hillary isn't in jail, no prosecution going on right?

 

I mean people who claim that sensitive information from security services is lie are same people who demand that Hilary should be jailed for treason because she potentially leaked said sensitive information. And they also claim that failure to prosecute Hilary is an example of government corruption.

So what ur saying is is someone catches u lying as long as ur part of the govt and/or media, it means ur trustworthy to believe the next thing told to ya...

 

I see what ur doing, the only flaw is is it started out with a lie (Hillary saying she didn't use a private server and then kept escalating) otherwise u would have a point.....

Nah, anyone who thinks the govt and/or media tells you the truth and nothing but the truth, sadly is a fool.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

 

Let's believe the facts no one's seen from the very same people who said they didn't find anything on Clinton's private servers.....

 

You know the phrase "don't believe what u hear and half of what u see"...apply extra on extra if from the news OR ESPECIALLY our government.

They are also same people that determine what information is so valuable for country that it needs to be kept from public eye and therefore can't be stored on private server.

 

I mean if people don't believe them, then people should not prosecute other people for not believing them right?

Seeing how Hillary isn't in jail, no prosecution going on right?

 

I mean people who claim that sensitive information from security services is lie are same people who demand that Hilary should be jailed for treason because she potentially leaked said sensitive information. And they also claim that failure to prosecute Hilary is an example of government corruption.

So what ur saying is is someone catches u lying as long as ur part of the govt and/or media, it means ur trustworthy to believe the next thing told to ya...

 

I see what ur doing, the only flaw is is it started out with a lie (Hillary saying she didn't use a private server and then kept escalating) otherwise u would have a point.....

Nah, anyone who thinks the govt and/or media tells you the truth and nothing but the truth, sadly is a fool.

 

 

Which is why I personally support open government, where information is released to public.

 

I though that she only denied sending classified emails from her private server (which seems to have been lie)

 

But funniest and saddest thing about Hilary's private server is how it was found out that she uses one. One of her aide's aol account was hacked and said aid had used it to sent emails to Clinton, when she was the secretary of state. Because that is just unacceptable form of incompetency. 

[Zoraptor]

In terms of prosecution Hillary got away with it because she was only provably incompetent, not grossly incompetent or provably deliberately sending classified emails. It seems very likely that she knew what she was doing and didn't care, same as she knew that setting up a private server was wrong but she did it anyway to avoid archiving requirements. But proving that against a 'befuddled granny trying to cope with technology' defence would be impossible to do.

 

However, the FBI accepting examination of the DNC servers by an interested 3rd party instead of themselves is deeply suspicious and should never have happened.

[HoonDing]

"Let's believe the facts"

 

your facts are nothing to my preconceived notions

[ShadySands]

Spain sees Russian interference in Catalonia separatist vote

[Ben No.3]

http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-11/oberlandesgericht-hamm-bauer-peru-klage-rwe-klimawandel

 

Translation will be needed

[Elerond]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/

 

The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks
The transparency organization asked the president’s son for his cooperation—in sharing its work, in contesting the results of the election, and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States.

[Volourn]

And?

[smjjames]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/

 

The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks

The transparency organization asked the president’s son for his cooperation—in sharing its work, in contesting the results of the election, and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States.

Transparency organization? Ha! They lost that when Assanage started acting on his hate boner for Clinton and apparently collaborated with the Russians.

 

And?

It shows that Wikileaks corresponded with at least one campaign official (yes, Don Jr. was part of the campaign staff then), even if it was mostly one sided. What Don Jr. didn't say matters as much as what he did say.

[HoonDing]

"and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States."

 

was Kim Dotcom going to be New Zealand ambassador?

[Guard Dog]

We're all gonna die! Someday https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/thousands-of-scientists-issue-bleak-second-notice-to-humanity/ar-BBEVmmA?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

[smjjames]

Why are you posting that in politics? There's nothing political about it, unless perhaps you're Republican, or even Libertarian. Dont know what the Libertarian position is on Global Warming and Climate Change.

Edited November 14, 2017 by smjjames