# Political Twelve Monkeys

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This thread continues the trend of all things political, this time with more tax tables.

Simplified version of Finnish income taxation for single individual without kids

Brackets for progressive state income tax

Addition to state income tax everybody pays flat municipality tax 16.5-23% depending on municipality where individual lives

Some examples (all examples use my home municipality's tax rate 19.5%):
Tax rate for income of 10000€ is 0% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 0.0€.
Tax rate for income of 15000€ is 2.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 366.21€.
Tax rate for income of 20000€ is 8.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 1626.43€.
Tax rate for income of 35000€ is 18.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 6417.01€.
Tax rate for income of 60000€ is 27.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 16353.41€.
Tax rate for income of 100000€ is 35.0% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 34534.88€.
Tax rate for income of 350000€ is 44.5% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 155075.43€.
Tax rate for income of 5000000€ is 48% with basic deductions, meaning total taxes and tax-like charges for the entire year 2389324.87€.

Basic deductions consists of things like employment pension contributions and unemployment insurance contributions, which are seen as income deductions when it comes to paying taxes.

VAT in Finland is currently for most goods 24%, 14% for foods and 10% for books, magazines, cultural services and medicine. Alcohol and fuels and some other things have special product specific extra tax.

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I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man

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Nazis will Nazi.  Spain is just another NK and Russia. Evil to the core.

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED \$250.

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I'm actually a bit ignorant on the history of Catalan's politics. Are they being yanked around by wealthier regions of Spain? Making this like Scotland's desires for independence? Or is this more a move of a wealthy region trying to cut and run?

The west seems pretty silent with regards to this bid for liberty. Not much in support or denouncement, I feel like there should chatter be more one way or the other.

Other than it being clear that the people are forming solidarity behind the movement, who are the driving leaders and forces, what is the end goal?

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Catalonia is one of the wealthier regions of Spain, but they don't really stand to gain much from any independence as far as I'm aware. Especially since they'd lose EU membership, and from what I've read on the news some companies and banks have already cut bait after the referendum.

The actual cause goes back a ways what with fascist Spain actively trying to repress Catalonian culture, but I'm sure 213374U can give you more details on the matter.

The EU is behind the Spanish central government, so no, there won't be any rustling, let alone chatter - for various reasons. Unless it's not in any EU region and can be rubbed into the face of the "bad guys" (Kosovo and Serbia) we can't have a region seceeding, imagine what that would do to other regions in Europe, e.g. northern Italy - Lega Nord is already actively lobbying for more autonomy - or the entire hoohaw in the Ukraine. Accepting an illegal referendum would instantly legitimize Putin's annexion of Crimea.

Although to be honest as an outside I enjoy Rajoy making an ass of himself. I hate that guy any everything he stands for with a passion. As far as I'm concerned every EPP member can go to hell.

Edited by majestic

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

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Catalonia is one of the riches parts of Spain.

There isn't black and white answers to Catalonia's independence aspirations. Way how Catalonia's leaders went with their referendum and declaration of independence was anything but good democratic process. But also Spain's central government hasn't acted like constitutional state when it comes to this issue.

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From what I understand the last few times they've voted for independence it has passed but with low voter turnout. The regional government has voted for it as well but I guess since there are no provisions for secession in the Spanish constitution any and all votes are deemed illegal. Numbers or someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong

PS I have no idea if the majority are in support of independence or if it's just a vocal minority but as they seem to be seeking a peaceful break it's never going to happen because as you can see from the Spanish reaction they aren't going to just let them go

Free games updated 3/4/21

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I spent a week in Catalonia in September. All the local media reported that polls say that support for independence and support for staying in Spain were even, but you could not tell that from street scene, as there you only saw banners, posters and flags that said vote for independence. And lots of people had Catalonia flag hanging out from their window or balcony. Meaning that there was no stay in Spain campaign or people showing support for being part of Spain by hanging out Spanish flag. And it was same all over Catalonia (Barcelona, Tarragona, Salou, Falset and some smaller towns that I visited). Meaning that it didn't look like that they were readying towards referendum where result is excepted to be very even. Which indicates that people's ability to campaign for staying in Spain wasn't in level that it should be in democratic referendum. Observation which is supported by fact that people supporting staying as part of Spain boycott referendum (less than 50% of Catalanian's voted) and then vote in Catalonia's parliament opponents of independence left before the vote.

But I also have problems with Spain's central governments attitude dismiss any possibility for independency and their heavy handed operations to prevent referendum vote.

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Nazis will Nazi.  Spain is just another NK and Russia. Evil to the core.

It's funny because the law that was to underpin the referendum didn't get enough votes in Catalonia's parliament (72 out of the necessary 90), but the Catalan president went ahead with it anyway. So the referendum was illegal not only under Spanish law, but technically under Catalan law as well.

And then last week they went ahead and declared independence with a full 38% of voters' support. Much popular. Such democracy. Wow.

Nazis will nazi, Volourn will Volourn.

Catalonia is one of the wealthier regions of Spain, but they don't really stand to gain much from any independence as far as I'm aware. Especially since they'd lose EU membership, and from what I've read on the news some companies and banks have already cut bait after the referendum.

The actual cause goes back a ways what with fascist Spain actively trying to repress Catalonian culture, but I'm sure 213374U can give you more details on the matter.

The EU is behind the Spanish central government, so no, there won't be any rustling, let alone chatter - for various reasons. Unless it's not in any EU region and can be rubbed into the face of the "bad guys" (Kosovo and Serbia) we can't have a region seceeding, imagine what that would do to other regions in Europe, e.g. northern Italy - Lega Nord is already actively lobbying for more autonomy - or the entire hoohaw in the Ukraine. Accepting an illegal referendum would instantly legitimize Putin's annexion of Crimea.

Although to be honest as an outside I enjoy Rajoy making an ass of himself. I hate that guy any everything he stands for with a passion. As far as I'm concerned every EPP member can go to hell.

Basically this.

Catalan (and Basque, and Navarre) hardcore independence movements have always been marginal. There is a strong nationalist sentiment in those regions, but people in general don't really want to secede. The whole thing is a result of political buggery going back... decades. In Spain, major left- and right-wing parties have always required the support of smaller nationalist parties in order to pass their budgets and have a modicum of parliamentary stability. This has resulted in the aforementioned regions enjoying "preferential treatment" especially in fiscal matters (Basque country and Navarra actually have their own fiscal rules, grounded in historical privileges dating back to the 19th century and preserved for political expediency reasons, which now the Catalans want as well). This understandably is a source of tensions with the rest of -unprivileged- regions.

Fast forward to 2006, the Catalan Parliament passed a new autonomy law giving themselves the same fiscal prerogatives as any other region, and established their right to collect their own taxes, among other things. This law required a referendum in Catalonia for ratification, which also passed. Then-minority leader Rajoy counterattacked with some exquisitely hypocritical antics, and by raising a constitutionality question, which resulted in the law's most important articles being declared unconstitutional, and therefore null and void, four years later by the extremely politicized Constitutional Court.

After that, and especially after Rajoy's electoral victory, the secessionist movement has been growing stronger and bolder, not necessarily because people in Catalonia want to secede but mostly because they ****ing hate Rajoy's guts and his party of mafiosi and SS larpers and what they stand for, and apparently separatists are the only ones not in bed with them (even though they were until, like, yesterday).

So, against a background of economic depression, in one camp you have a bunch of wannabe fascists crying bloody murder because the very law they have zero interest in changing has been offended, and in the other you have a gang of opportunistic crooks (the guy now hiding in Belgium belongs to a party that has been one of the most dependable partners in crime of the party now in power in Spain) on a power trip about how the law doesn't apply to them anyway because "the people" are behind them. Only not really. Both, of course, thoroughly corrupt.

TL:DR this is really about gangsters fighting over money, and Spaniards are stupid as ****, on both sides of the Catalan border.

Edited by 213374U
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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Osama Bin Laden liked anime, including Naruto.

That is all.

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

Honestly baffling that either they didn't have parents who told them "I go down to the mines so that when you grow up you don't have to" or they were too thick in the head not to listen.

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Quote
“Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.”

-Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>>
Quote

"The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete."

-Rod Serling

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Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

Honestly baffling that either they didn't have parents who told them "I go down to the mines so that when you grow up you don't have to" or they were too thick in the head not to listen.

Hope makes people stupid sometimes

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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There's probably no other jobs in Appalachia that the mine workers could be retrained in that would offer the same money that mine working could.  So the choice is retrain and move or make do and wait.

And while Appalachia has a history of people moving out to find better jobs going at least back into the 1940s, a lot of people choose to wait.

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I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man

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It's beautiful up there.....but there ain't **** to do anywhere really. When I lived up there, my town was well off compared to the ones around in that we had TWO gas stations, a Sonic's, and a Walmart..

Wanted to go to the mall? That's 2 and half hour drive. The only businesses really are mill work and Walmart.

Anyone see wind river? Think of that but minus alot of the snow. Again, there ain't **** to do. You want something else then u have to move, but then where is that money gonna come from?

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Bowe Bergdhal has been sentenced. No prison time. Reduced to Private, fine 10 months pay and a dishonorable discharge from the Army. Seems right to me. I vomited in my mouth a little when Obama called this miserable disgrace a hero. https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-bergdahl-judge-resumes-deliberations-friday-133637560.html

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"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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Trump administration releases report finding ‘no convincing alternative explanation’ for climate change

The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law, despite the fact that its findings sharply contradict the administration’s policies. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea level rise as high as 8 feet by the year 2100, and enumerates myriad climate-related damages across the United States that are already occurring due to 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.

I dunno why I always get a line of blank space in my quotes if I don't post it in BBCode Mode.

PS  re:Trump calling on the FBI and Justice Dept to investigate DNC-Clinton collusion. Wasn't this already settled in a lawsuit brought by Sanders supporters where the DNC lawyers successfully argued that it doesn't matter as the DNC can pick the candidate it wants regardless of anything else?

Free games updated 3/4/21

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Remember when people got upset about the IRS targeting conservatives under Obama? The new tax code literally named Stephen Curry, who had a little twitter spat with the President earlier in the summer. Good to see them taking the high road.

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Uh? You know this is Donald Trump right? This is a guy - despite his billions - who became truly famous by making a show where he literally told them were 'fired' on live tv. LMAO

Edited by Volourn
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DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED \$250.

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Could anyone knowing Deutsch tell the details on it:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article170210421/Der-Feind-in-unseren-Reihen.html

the only English based text i've found while googling is on Breitbart - perhaps someone have found something on this on more "reknown" media outlets?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/02/berlin-police-instructor-muslim-recruits-enemy-ranks/

I wonder if there is anything being reported/done around this currently

Edited by Darkpriest
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Could anyone knowing Deutsch tell the details on it:

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article170210421/Der-Feind-in-unseren-Reihen.html

the only English based text i've found while googling is on Breitbart - perhaps someone have found something on this on more "reknown" media outlets?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/11/02/berlin-police-instructor-muslim-recruits-enemy-ranks/

I wonder if there is anything being reported/done around this currently

The audio recording in question is genuine (i.e. from an actual police academy instructor). Sadly the Welt article is behind a paywall but quotes and repostings seem to infer that there are various problems with the students, ranging from a lack of respect and sleeping in class to being part of mafia clans.

This isn't the first time that particular academy showed up in the news, reports like this come every now and then. Some of the older ones were fake, this one is more substantial due to the voice mail of an actual instructor. The police union commented that they're worried about instructors being threatened but nobody ever comes forward so they can't help.

It's also interesting to note that this type of information seems to always come from a third party. So either the instructors are even more scared of their superiors (or the union) than they are of their problematic students or it's another case of racism in the police force. Most likely a mix of both*, and it's excacerbated by the fact that the police force has had problems filling its ranks for a while now (and not just in Germany, anyway).

*Honestly, I can see why. The voice mail is the quintessential racist diatribe, the only thing it lacks is an opening disclaimer stating "I'm no racist but...".

No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.

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The New Yorker ran a nice piece on Tulsi Gabbard D-Hawaii. Of all the Democrats in Congress she is one of the more libertarian members. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/what-does-tulsi-gabbard-believe

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"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell

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Gabbard seems more sensible than most politicians (from what I've read).

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Gabbard seems more sensible than most politicians (from what I've read).

At this point I want either Gabbard or Sanders for 2020.

Though Ideally it might be Sanders up first, then Gabbard following up in 2024.

If they squared off I'm not sure who I'd pick, it also depends on what congress is looking like. I'd rather have Gabbard if things aren't sufficiently blue.

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Trump will need a good nickname for when Gabbard runs in 2020.

Tootsie Tulsi?

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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Trump will need a good nickname for when Gabbard runs in 2020.

Tootsie Tulsi?

If he did and no one stopped him then you'll know his staff has given up.

"While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before"

Thomas Sowell