Political Ocean's 11

[Zoraptor]

I'd hardly forget that photo, it has given me endless amusement to see McCain posing with a bunch of dudes who ended up as ranking members of ISIS, even if the one in the background isn't Baghdadi (and it definitely isn't) as many claimed. Supporting the then FSA was easy though, as Jordan and Turkey could be used and at that time you had a broadly cohesive sunni support group as well. They have support available for the Baluchi and Arab minority areas, but Iran's Kurdish area cannot count on any outside support.

[Guard Dog]

As most of you know a lot of ink & airtime was used in the past two weeks railing against Trump's comments in a call to the widow of US Army Sgt. La David Johnson. But I wonder why none was spent asking WHY was she a widow to begin with? What the hell were US combat forces doing in Niger to begin with?

 

It turns out they have been there since 2007 supporting French troops who are supporting private Uranium mining. All to the chagrin of Niger's pro-democracy factions who want US & French troops out because they are supporting and propping up a brutal government and military that has a long a terrible record of human rights abuses. In 2011 the Obama Admins Security Government Initiative updated the weapons, equipment, and training of that army in the hopes of them being a force against Islamic insurgent groups like Jamaat Tawhid wal Jihad fi Gharb Afriqa in Mali. But that group and others like it are only a problem because of weapons a funding coming from Post-Ghaddafi Libya, another mess the US helped create. 

 

So the question is why are US troops supporting private French mining when there are already French troops doing that? It turns out there are US ground forces in combat operations in 138 different nations around the globe. When George W Bush left office that number was 60. Barack Obama doubled that to 120 over eight years. In just 9 months Trump has added 18 more. Everything from drug interdiction in Columbia (great job there by the way: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/a-side-effect-of-peace-in-colombia-a-cocaine-boom-in-the-us/2017/05/07/6fb5d468-294a-11e7-9081-f5405f56d3e4_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f5e81a5d807d  now instead of drug kingpins the Colombian Government is selling cocaine) to hunting rebel leaders in Uganda. How many of these actions are authorized by Congress, in whom war powers ultimately rest in this country? 0. Zip. None. Lindsey Graham, the most powerful member of the Senate Arms Services committee knew nothing about combat troops in Niger. Either he's lying or we have a f-----g problem. 

 

Forget Afghanistan for a moment. Something had to be done there. Maybe not what was done but... But I think it's safe to say intervening in Syria, Libya, & Iraq has made a bad situation worse. And Niger whose updated military spends more time brutalizing it's own people than actually supporting resistance to jihad groups in Mali.

 

Prior to WWI the US had a long and dearly held tradition of non-intervention (beyond the western hemisphere at least). That is something we really need to get back to. It may be that cow is long out of the barn, especially since in this, like many other things, the Democrats & Republicans are doing the same things. And there is a price to pay for it. The lives of the people involved in it, the money it costs, and the damage to the fundamental founding principle of this country. And there is another kind of cost too, in the story of King Midas everything he touched turned to gold. Everything we're touching is turning into something else. It's common practice to wrap all this in the flag and say La David Johnson died defending our freedom. We need to reject that. Until someone can explain how my freedom got to Niger and why it was so important to French Uranium mining.

 

http://reason.com/archives/2017/10/25/presidents-are-reckless-with-soldiers-li

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/23/politics/dunford-niger-ambush-briefing/index.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558757043/the-u-s-military-in-africa-a-discreet-presence-in-many-places

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/u-s-special-ops-deployed-to-138-countries-and-counting/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2017/06/13/in-the-eye-of-the-storm-niger-and-its-unstable-neighbors/

[smjjames]

@Guard Dog: It can all (the stuff since George W. Bush anyway) be traced back to the vague AUMF that was made in 2001 or 2002 which hasn't been renewed since.

[213374U]

Why do you hate Freedom, Guard Dog?

[Hurlshort]

I would recommend everyone watch Timbuktu to understand more about the situation in Niger.

[smjjames]

Why do you hate Freedom, Guard Dog?

 

He's libertarian don't ya know?

Edited October 28, 2017 by smjjames

[Ben No.3]

That’s how being an imperial nation works, no? You send your people around the world to serve your interests.

 

Seriously though, Guard Dog, do you really not understand why someone has to watch over Uranium mines in Africa? Bad enough that those mines are there in the first place, worse even that they were privatised; but under the given circumstances someone has to see that while they are operating at least no one steals the Uranium. By no means am I defending the practice as a whole. But I do think military is a much better option for doing at least the guarding than mercenaries would be.

[smjjames]

'Guarding the uranium' wasn't even this particular units mission though, they were on an intel gathering mission when they got ambushed.

[Guard Dog]

@Guard Dog: It can all (the stuff since George W. Bush anyway) be traced back to the vague AUMF that was made in 2001 or 2002 which hasn't been renewed since.

Regrettably this is incorrect. There have been a number of attempts to end what Barbra Lee has correctly called a blank check to wage debate free war forever. Including one earlier this year that was quietly scuttled by the rules committee. We have had Democrat led Congresses and Republican led Congresses along with Democrat Administrations and Republican Administrations. But the same story, in every one. More money, men, hardware and escalations. And all of it in secret until someone gets killed. And even then there is far more angst expended over how condolences are offered than why the hell it happened to begin with.

 

Oh and Ben, that uranium and the private companies that are mining it are all French. To my thinking that equals "Not Our Problem". There is nothing, not one goddamned thing in Niger that was worth the lives of those four men.

[Ben No.3]

 

@Guard Dog: It can all (the stuff since George W. Bush anyway) be traced back to the vague AUMF that was made in 2001 or 2002 which hasn't been renewed since.

Regrettably this is incorrect. There have been a number of attempts to end what Barbra Lee has correctly called a blank check to wage debate free war forever. Including one earlier this year that was quietly scuttled by the rules committee. We have had Democrat led Congresses and Republican led Congresses along with Democrat Administrations and Republican Administrations. But the same story, in every one. More money, men, hardware and escalations. And all of it in secret until someone gets killed. And even then there is far more angst expended over how condolences are offered than why the hell it happened to begin with.

 

Oh and Ben, that uranium and the private companies that are mining it are all French. To my thinking that equals "Not Our Problem". There is nothing, not one goddamned thing in Niger that was worth the lives of those four men.

Speaking from the point of view of a world power, there are many men but little Uranium.

 

I'm not trying to defend but to explain.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Ben No.3

[smjjames]

@Guard Dog: It can all (the stuff since George W. Bush anyway) be traced back to the vague AUMF that was made in 2001 or 2002 which hasn't been renewed since.

Regrettably this is incorrect. There have been a number of attempts to end what Barbra Lee has correctly called a blank check to wage debate free war forever. Including one earlier this year that was quietly scuttled by the rules committee. We have had Democrat led Congresses and Republican led Congresses along with Democrat Administrations and Republican Administrations. But the same story, in every one. More money, men, hardware and escalations. And all of it in secret until someone gets killed. And even then there is far more angst expended over how condolences are offered than why the hell it happened to begin with.

 

Oh and Ben, that uranium and the private companies that are mining it are all French. To my thinking that equals "Not Our Problem". There is nothing, not one goddamned thing in Niger that was worth the lives of those four men.

 

Again, that's not even why they were there, they were doing counterterrorism intel gathering. Maybe some of them are there to guard the uranium, but that's not what that unit was doing.

 

Regardless of why they were there, you're a former marine, right (saw someone mention that you are)? Even you would want to know what happened that led to, in military parlance, the massive Charlie Foxtrot.

Edited October 28, 2017 by smjjames

[Guard Dog]

Oh I have a big problem that it happened. I have a bigger problem that they were there for it to happen to them. That is the point I'm trying to make here. This never ending war BS that can't even be won because no one can even define what victory is has to stop. It's becoming very Orwellian. No, it actually passed that up a long time ago.

[smjjames]

Regardless of whether one views it in a libertarian or republican or democrat way, it IS a fact that our forces are spread pretty thinly. Some might say too thinly.

 

That's kind of the problem with counterterrorism, there's always going to be some terrorist group somewhere, so, you have to decide which ones are the threat.

 

The Green Berets are also supposedly a branch that trains foreign militaries, not go on intel gathering missions, so, I'm wondering about that as well.

 

Another thing, this unit was also apparently fresh to the area, deployed a week before, so, tons of questions and few answwers.

Edited October 28, 2017 by smjjames

[Ben No.3]

The **** is going on with Twitter? „White lives matter“?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/white-lives-matter-organizers-cancel-second-rally-after-being-taunted-by-counterprotesters/2017/10/28/a6fee0d2-bc1f-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

This kind of protest seems a bit worrying

Edited October 29, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Guard Dog]

The **** is going on with Twitter? „White lives matter“?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/white-lives-matter-organizers-cancel-second-rally-after-being-taunted-by-counterprotesters/2017/10/28/a6fee0d2-bc1f-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

This kind of protest seems a bit worrying

 

"Some master race," he snickered. "Can't even show up on time."

 

  OMG, now that is funny! They said 100 people showed up? That's not a rally. It's not even a particularly well attended party. I wouldn't waste anytime worrying about that.

[redneckdevil]

The **** is going on with Twitter? „White lives matter“?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/white-lives-matter-organizers-cancel-second-rally-after-being-taunted-by-counterprotesters/2017/10/28/a6fee0d2-bc1f-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

This kind of protest seems a bit worrying

Why does this seem worrying? In a country of mostly white people, 100 of them are protesting? Nah, it's all part of the news process of keeping fear alive.

[smjjames]

The **** is going on with Twitter? „White lives matter“?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/white-lives-matter-organizers-cancel-second-rally-after-being-taunted-by-counterprotesters/2017/10/28/a6fee0d2-bc1f-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html

This kind of protest seems a bit worrying

 

That 'white lives matter' and 'all lives matter' stuff has been going on since the 'black lives matter' movement started.

 

Personally, I prefer the term 'all wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum lives matter', which is a sarcastic rebuke of the 'white lives matter' and 'all lives matter'.

Edited October 29, 2017 by smjjames

[Ben No.3]

The worrying part is not the number of Nazis, but how emboldened they seem recently. I’m not looking into US politics for that long, but it seems to me that the public existence Nazis being straight out and honestly Nazis has seen a sharp increase. And that I find worrying.

[Guard Dog]

The worrying part is not the number of Nazis, but how emboldened they seem recently. I’m not looking into US politics for that long, but it seems to me that the public existence Nazis being straight out and honestly Nazis has seen a sharp increase. And that I find worrying.

No I wouldn't say that. They have been around since I've been paying attention in one form or another. Skinheads, Aryan Nation, and others. They have always been pretty brazen. But there just are not a whole lot of them. As Redneck pointed out, 100 people at a rally is only in the news because the media is trying to make hay of it. But it's a thin crop indeed. It's barely even worth notice.

[Chilloutman]

Skinheads are not Nazis ffs :/

[redneckdevil]

The worrying part is not the number of Nazis, but how emboldened they seem recently. I’m not looking into US politics for that long, but it seems to me that the public existence Nazis being straight out and honestly Nazis has seen a sharp increase. And that I find worrying.

"Every action has an equal and opposite reaction."

When u get to a point where it's "okay" and pushed socially to call and treat someone who disagrees with you as a "Nazi"....well what do u expect? Think of the N word and how alot of Americans call themselves that even though it's a horrible word, they spun it around and tried to wear it with pride. You keep accusing your mate of cheating, eventually they ain't gonna give a **** and own it.

If ur wondering why there seems to be more "open" lately.

[Hurlshort]

I can't imagine becoming a cheater because my mates keep accusing me of that. You'd have to have super low self esteem to just become something because people say you are that.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The beauty of the Aryan woman is a sight to behold.

Skinheads are not Nazis ffs :/

The reggae ones are dead and the oi! ones are just punks who don't like dyed hair.

[Guard Dog]

Well, all i know about skinheads comes from a movie called American History X. It's good if you ever get a chance to see it. It's got Avery Brooks (Captain Sisko) in it. But if all your knowledge comes from a movie you really don't have any. 

[Malcador]

Well, all i know about skinheads comes from a movie called American History X. It's good if you ever get a chance to see it. It's got Avery Brooks (Captain Sisko) in it. But if all your knowledge comes from a movie you really don't have any.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead

 

And the metalhead girl I knew are my sources. So 10% better