Political Ocean's 11

[smjjames]

 

Statue of Teddy Roosevelt defaced. Of course the NY Post looked around until they found someone with something bad to say about Roosevelt:

 

Gesell is not a fan of the Rough Rider.

“I think he was an egotistical person who thought his opinion mattered more than anyone else’s. That’s not the way to go,” he told The Post.

 

TR was a man of his time, like a lot of historical figures. He had views that today would certainly be considered racist in a patronizing way. That we think differently now says something about us, not him.

 

$20 says whoever did it thought he was a civil war general and had no clue who he was. 

 

http://nypost.com/2017/10/26/teddy-roosevelt-statue-doused-in-red-paint/

 

Wouldn't think you'd be much of a fan of Teddy since he wanted government oversight in pretty much everything.

 

 

 

Irony much? heh.

[Blodhemn]

He did like his guns though!

[Elerond]

 

 

Where I get this kind $300 million contracts to my two man firm   

[Hurlshort]

The President is a bit of an oddball...

 

[Katphood]

So both Oswald and Ruby were CIA agents?!  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/10/27/strippers-surveillance-and-assassination-plots-the-jfk-files-wildest-documents/?utm_term=.e2a72fba9304

 

How does that work?! 

[Guard Dog]

 

Statue of Teddy Roosevelt defaced. Of course the NY Post looked around until they found someone with something bad to say about Roosevelt:

 

Gesell is not a fan of the Rough Rider.

“I think he was an egotistical person who thought his opinion mattered more than anyone else’s. That’s not the way to go,” he told The Post.

 

TR was a man of his time, like a lot of historical figures. He had views that today would certainly be considered racist in a patronizing way. That we think differently now says something about us, not him.

 

$20 says whoever did it thought he was a civil war general and had no clue who he was. 

 

http://nypost.com/2017/10/26/teddy-roosevelt-statue-doused-in-red-paint/

 

Wouldn't think you'd be much of a fan of Teddy since he wanted government oversight in pretty much everything.

 

Didn't say I was. I just said he was a man of his time.

[Guard Dog]

Catalonia secedes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonia-declares-independence-from-spain-direct-madrid-rule-looms-idUSKBN1CW0VF

 

A meaningless gesture unless they are prepared to fight.

[Chilloutman]

And they of course are not

[213374U]

Catalonia secedes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonia-declares-independence-from-spain-direct-madrid-rule-looms-idUSKBN1CW0VF

 

A meaningless gesture unless they are prepared to fight.

 

A prominent judge here has commented that the only reason the situation hasn't descended into a civil conflict yet is not so much that they aren't willing to fight as they simply not having what to fight with. Unlike in Ukraine, here there aren't any heavy weapons caches left over from the Soviet era, and again, unlike Donbass, the neighboring country isn't at all interested in arming and training a militia and deploying "little green men" until the locals can fend for themselves.

 

Really, this is just a repeat of 1934. Doubtful that things will escalate as they did back then, though -- civil disturbances and riots are one thing, a full-fledged armed insurrection is a whole another. There is still the practical matter of how to arrest the head of the Catalan government without anyone getting shot in the process, however.

 

Meanwhile in Russia...

Edited October 27, 2017 by 213374U

[Chilloutman]

 

Catalonia secedes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonia-declares-independence-from-spain-direct-madrid-rule-looms-idUSKBN1CW0VF

 

A meaningless gesture unless they are prepared to fight.

 

A prominent judge here has commented that the only reason the situation hasn't descended into a civil conflict yet is not so much that they aren't willing to fight as they simply not having what to fight with. Unlike in Ukraine, here there aren't any heavy weapons caches left over from the Soviet era, and again, unlike Donbass, the neighboring country isn't at all interested in arming and training a militia and deploying "little green men" until the locals can fend for themselves.

 

Really, this is just a repeat of 1934. Doubtful that things will escalate as they did back then, though -- civil disturbances and riots are one thing, a full-fledged armed insurrection is a whole another. There is still the practical matter of how to arrest the head of the Catalan government without anyone getting shot in the process, however.

 

Meanwhile in Russia...

 

 

Well, they were on losing side of Civil War IIRC

[smjjames]

 

Catalonia secedes. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/catalonia-declares-independence-from-spain-direct-madrid-rule-looms-idUSKBN1CW0VF

 

A meaningless gesture unless they are prepared to fight.

 

A prominent judge here has commented that the only reason the situation hasn't descended into a civil conflict yet is not so much that they aren't willing to fight as they simply not having what to fight with. Unlike in Ukraine, here there aren't any heavy weapons caches left over from the Soviet era, and again, unlike Donbass, the neighboring country isn't at all interested in arming and training a militia and deploying "little green men" until the locals can fend for themselves.

 

Really, this is just a repeat of 1934. Doubtful that things will escalate as they did back then, though -- civil disturbances and riots are one thing, a full-fledged armed insurrection is a whole another. There is still the practical matter of how to arrest the head of the Catalan government without anyone getting shot in the process, however.

 

Meanwhile in Russia...

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin had an appendage or two in Catalonia, given how he exploits all the weaknesses that he can, but it's something that has been stewing for years independent of whether Putin was involved or not.

 

And yes, he'd certainly be pleased at the West being in chaos.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

So is Clinton being connected to not only the uranium deal with Russia but now the DNC bought a dossier on Trump that the FBI used as reason to investigate Russia connections to him?

Is this a bunch of hogwash from Fox news?

Because it has long since been debunked, it's the latter.

Where is the debunk part in the link?

 

 

Don't think it has been debunked as it's new information. Hillary denies it, but that's not surprising. I can't imagine too many people thought that she or the democrats weren't involved in the dossier creation at least.

 

 

 

 

A prominent judge here has commented that the only reason the situation hasn't descended into a civil conflict yet is not so much that they aren't willing to fight as they simply not having what to fight with. Unlike in Ukraine, here there aren't any heavy weapons caches left over from the Soviet era, and again, unlike Donbass, the neighboring country isn't at all interested in arming and training a militia and deploying "little green men" until the locals can fend for themselves.

 

Really, this is just a repeat of 1934. Doubtful that things will escalate as they did back then, though -- civil disturbances and riots are one thing, a full-fledged armed insurrection is a whole another. There is still the practical matter of how to arrest the head of the Catalan government without anyone getting shot in the process, however.

 

Meanwhile in Russia...

 

 

Well, they were on losing side of Civil War IIRC

 

 

Being on the losing side doesn't mean much though, if anything the lingering hostility from Franco is one of the driving forces for secession amongst the catalan populace. The situation at the start of the Civil War was rather different, since the new government was left wing and it was the right wing (including much of the military) that rose up in revolt. That meant that both sides had access to a lot of weapons.

 

My personal opinion is that Puidgemont etc are pretty happy they don't have weapons, and this is still intended to be primarily posturing and a negotiation tool rather than a serious independence declaration. In that sense it has similarities to the Kurdish referendum as well, which wasn't intended to result in actual independence but in proroguing Barzani's rule even further past its expiry by causing a crisis.

[injurai]

The President is a bit of an oddball...

 

 

"Our leaders are stupid people."

 

Hey, I might agree with the guy after all.

[HoonDing]

Ivy League is big league, you could say even bigly

[Katphood]

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin had an appendage or two in Catalonia, given how he exploits all the weaknesses that he can, but it's something that has been stewing for years independent of whether Putin was involved or not.

 

And yes, he'd certainly be pleased at the West being in chaos.

If he has any hand in it, it's probably a message: 'Leave Kurdistan alone so we can leave Catalonia alone'.

[smjjames]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin had an appendage or two in Catalonia, given how he exploits all the weaknesses that he can, but it's something that has been stewing for years independent of whether Putin was involved or not.

 

And yes, he'd certainly be pleased at the West being in chaos.

If he has any hand in it, it's probably a message: 'Leave Kurdistan alone so we can leave Catalonia alone'.

 

 

Wasn't Russia against Kurdistan seceeding? Not sure what the Russian response was, but I know that the US and the UN are saying "no, don't do it." Pretty much everybody in the region is against Kurdistan seceeding for various reasons.

[Katphood]

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Putin had an appendage or two in Catalonia, given how he exploits all the weaknesses that he can, but it's something that has been stewing for years independent of whether Putin was involved or not.

 

And yes, he'd certainly be pleased at the West being in chaos.

If he has any hand in it, it's probably a message: 'Leave Kurdistan alone so we can leave Catalonia alone'.

 

 

Wasn't Russia against Kurdistan seceeding? Not sure what the Russian response was, but I know that the US and the UN are saying "no, don't do it." Pretty much everybody in the region is against Kurdistan seceeding for various reasons.

 

 

True. What I meant was that Russia doesn't want Kurdistan to gain independence but the west does obviously. So to counter that, Putin might have pulled a string or two in order to start/push the political crisis we have right now in Spain and that is exactly something the west doesn't want.  

[majestic]

True. What I meant was that Russia doesn't want Kurdistan to gain independence but the west does obviously. So to counter that, Putin might have pulled a string or two in order to start/push the political crisis we have right now in Spain and that is exactly something the west doesn't want. 

 

The West does? Really? Here I tought we were too busy fellating the Sultan of Turkey, the grand Erdogan to actually give a flying f*ck about the Kurds (as long as they're not useful idiots).

[Katphood]

 

True. What I meant was that Russia doesn't want Kurdistan to gain independence but the west does obviously. So to counter that, Putin might have pulled a string or two in order to start/push the political crisis we have right now in Spain and that is exactly something the west doesn't want. 

 

The West does? Really? Here I tought we were too busy fellating the Sultan of Turkey, the grand Erdogan to actually give a flying f*ck about the Kurds (as long as they're not useful idiots).

 

 

Yes, Israel for one was very happy with the Kurdish independence referendum. There are parts of the Greater Kurdistan in Iran for instance, not to mention how much some Kurdish Iranians cheered when they simply heard about the referendum. You think that at this point, the west or more specifically, America and its allies aren't interested in a civil war in Iran? Think again. Iran together with North Korea are on top of the wanted list of the U.S government and there is no easier way to dismantle a regime by the means of civil war. Why send troops when you can cause a chaos and let people fight themselves? Syria, Libya, Yugoslavia, Iran, Egypt and many more countries have experienced this one way or another.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Katphood

[Zoraptor]

The west doesn't want independent Kurdistan, they want the threat of independent Kurdistan to keep the regional countries in line as supporting Kurdistan practically means losing Iraq and Turkey. Israel only supports it to troll, their support is actively counterproductive politically. Can't see the US backing PJAK in Iran which is the only major Kurd rebel group as they/re KCK/ PKK affiliates and it would annoy Iraq and Turkey without having the anti ISIS fig leaf; they and their allies would far rather support the arab and baluchi minorities.

 

 

Wasn't Russia against Kurdistan seceeding? Not sure what the Russian response was, but I know that the US and the UN are saying "no, don't do it." Pretty much everybody in the region is against Kurdistan seceeding for various reasons.

 

 

Russia was neutral on the issue, and kept as quiet as they could away with. Whatever way it was resolved would be good for them- so long as they didn't take sides- since it's primarily a fight between nominal US allies; support of one side results in alienation of the other. The US had to pick a side, they didn't.

 

It's also complicated by Crimea, much as the US could not be seen to be for secession due to Crimea Russia cannot be seen to be against it also due to Crimea.

[smjjames]

 

 

True. What I meant was that Russia doesn't want Kurdistan to gain independence but the west does obviously. So to counter that, Putin might have pulled a string or two in order to start/push the political crisis we have right now in Spain and that is exactly something the west doesn't want. 

 

The West does? Really? Here I tought we were too busy fellating the Sultan of Turkey, the grand Erdogan to actually give a flying f*ck about the Kurds (as long as they're not useful idiots).

 

 

Yes, Israel for one was very happy with the Kurdish independence referendum. There are parts of the Greater Kurdistan in Iran for instance, not to mention how much some Kurdish Iranians cheered when they simply heard about the referendum. You think that at this point, the west or more specifically, America and its allies aren't interested in a civil war in Iran? Think again. Iran together with North Korea are on top of the wanted list of the U.S government and there is no easier way to dismantle a regime by the means of civil war. Why send troops when you can cause a chaos and let people fight themselves? Syria, Libya, Yugoslavia, Iran, Egypt and many more countries have experienced this one way or another.

 

 

Iran hasn't done anything yet to my knowledge, other than being opposed to it. They're in watch and wait mode I believe. What happens on the Iranian side as far as the Kurds go depends on what happens between Iraq and Kurdistan.

 

Also, the Kurds live in a much bigger chunk of Turkey (roughly a quarter of the country) than they do Iran, so, Turkey seems more at risk of entering a civil war over the Kurds.

[Elerond]

 

 

 

So is Clinton being connected to not only the uranium deal with Russia but now the DNC bought a dossier on Trump that the FBI used as reason to investigate Russia connections to him?

Is this a bunch of hogwash from Fox news?

Because it has long since been debunked, it's the latter.

Where is the debunk part in the link?

 

 

Don't think it has been debunked as it's new information. Hillary denies it, but that's not surprising. I can't imagine too many people thought that she or the democrats weren't involved in the dossier creation at least.

 

Above link leads to patreon page of poadcast that did episode about issue and they present evidence why situation isn't what you would think by reading articles about it in media. You can find link to said poadcast from mentioned patreon page.

 

http://armscontrolwonk.libsyn.com/uranium-fever

[Zoraptor]

 

Iran hasn't done anything yet to my knowledge, other than being opposed to it.

 

Not directly, certainly. But the pro Iranian PUK were mostly in charge of defending Kirkuk and withdrew without firing a shot after making an agreement with the government brokered, almost certainly, by Iran. Iranian general Qassem Suleimani was in Sulaymaniya, the capital of PUK held Iraqi kurdistan, immediately before they made that agreement.

[Agiel]

 

 

So is Clinton being connected to not only the uranium deal with Russia but now the DNC bought a dossier on Trump that the FBI used as reason to investigate Russia connections to him?

Is this a bunch of hogwash from Fox news?

Because it has long since been debunked, it's the latter.

Where is the debunk part in the link?

 

 

Libsyn podcast link at the very top. The Lawfare blog goes further into this. But if you wanted to know the crux of the argument in short contrary to Trump's claims during the election the uranium, if it ever were to go to Russia (which it wouldn't, as Arms Control Wonk and Lawfare explains, the ore was for sale within US borders), was unlikely to be used in nuclear weapons in large part because growth of the Russian strategic arsenal are capped at current levels due to treaty obligations. Even its modernisation program would either use warheads or fissile materiel from older weapons (the focus of modernisation efforts are launch platforms and the mechanisms  surrounding the "pits" pf the weapons, which are generally quite stable; plutonium cores for instance are good for at least 80 years after processing). In fact, there was a time when Russia and the other former SSRs were selling HEU to the US like it was going out of style. All of it was blended down into LEU for use in nuclear reactors (as Jeffrey Lewis notes, during the Megatons to Megawatts program one in ten American lightbulbs was lit by power generated from former Soviet nuclear weapons).

 

Further, the fact that it was a Russian SOE that was purchasing ownership of the mine is not quite as alarming as some make it out to be. Yes, the company is a state-owned enterprise, but so is at least 70% of the entire Russian economy. Yes, because it is state owned it could bow to pressure from the Kremlin to limit output or send proceeds from sales into the Kremlin's coffers, but the operative word is that the mine represents 20% of US uranium _output_, which is different from total US _reserves_. As the US is similarly not growing its warhead count (unless Trump's "Let there be an arms race" bears out) and most power companies are switching over to natural gas for power plants rather than refurbishing old nuclear plants and bringing them up to modern safety standards there isn't a huge demand for uranium for nuclear power plants, so much of the United States' uranium supply is simply left untapped. Put another way the US is not in danger of suddenly having its uranium reserves severely limited if for some reason the demand for them were to skyrocket.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Agiel

[Katphood]

Can't see the US backing PJAK in Iran which is the only major Kurd rebel group as they/re KCK/ PKK affiliates and it would annoy Iraq and Turkey without having the anti ISIS fig leaf; they and their allies would far rather support the arab and baluchi minorities.

Well, why do people tend to forget about this pic:

 

 

Maybe it's because one of the guys in this pic(no, not McCain) turned out to be a baby snatcher.

 

and while we're at it, why not put this here, too:

 

 

 

 

Also, the Kurds live in a much bigger chunk of Turkey (roughly a quarter of the country) than they do Iran, so, Turkey seems more at risk of entering a civil war over the Kurds.

 

 

That's why Turkey -as angry as they are at the Kurds- prefers to let Iran deal with any sort of conflict whatsoever. In picture they are against an independent Kurdistan but in practice they tend to sweet talk Iran into any sort of military conflict.

 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Katphood