Berath Blessing - online only?

[SkySlam]

@LordCrash did you even READ the update before complaining about it?

 

I'm quoting the Obsidian description of Berath's Blessing:

Other players may choose to more quickly advance through a part of the game that they don’t really want to repeat [...] Players will even have the option to start the game with some of their favorite things acquired during the previous journey – starting with a favorite companion or Soulbound weapon from an earlier playthrough.

 

[LordCrash]

@LordCrash did you even READ the update before complaining about it?

 

I'm quoting the Obsidian description of Berath's Blessing:

Other players may choose to more quickly advance through a part of the game that they don’t really want to repeat [...] Players will even have the option to start the game with some of their favorite things acquired during the previous journey – starting with a favorite companion or Soulbound weapon from an earlier playthrough.

 

The first part of your quote is a feature that I don't really understand (what about story progression, choices, equipment, XP when you skip certain parts of the game??? to me that makes no sense and isn't really thought through) and the latter part is just typical NG+ stuff. But to be honest, I probably misread your point here because I thought you meant your fav weapon in general (like choosing it from a list), not just keeping the stuff you have at the end of the latest game.

[JerekKruger]

The first part of your quote is a feature that I don't really understand (what about story progression, choices, equipment, XP when you skip certain parts of the game??? to me that makes no sense and isn't really thought through) and the latter part is just typical NG+ stuff. But to be honest, I probably misread your point here because I thought you meant your fav weapon in general (like choosing it from a list), not just keeping the stuff you have at the end of the latest game.

 

 

I suspect the first part will simply be a tutorial skipper in the style of Dungeon Be Gone from BG2. Tutorials don't usually have any significant choices, and it's usually a simple matter to simply put all equipment available directly in the player's inventory and give them the experience they would have received. A more in depth content skipper would, as you say, be rather more complicated.

 

For the latter, at least for me, there will be almost no difference between choosing my favourite weapon to keep from a list or from the ones I got in a previous playthrough, since I pretty much always get every single item in the game (and I am a terrible hoarder). That said, it actually specifies Soulbound, and I suspect it's not just about being able to start with the item but also start with it fully unlocked. 

[SkySlam]

The first part probably refers to skipping tutorial and/or repetitive missions. For example, in PoE1 I would love to start my new playthroughs directly in Gilded Vale instead of going through the prologue for the 100th time. While it's nice to play it for the first time(s), it's only a chore later on because I already know the basics and there are no meaningful choices there.

Baldur's Gate 2 had a popular mod (called Dungeon-be-gone) which allowed the player to skip the first long tutorial dungeon and gave you all the experience and gold that you would've got inside. I believe Berath's Blessing will have this kind of feature.

 

There is no content locked behind achievements, only features useful for those who play RPGs multiple times and/or those who like to restart often before finding the perfect party/combination/protagonist etc.

 

Also, I believe that the game should be tuned on fans, not on casuals. And the majority of fans, the people who love RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Pillars, tend to play them multiple times, that's a fact.

If you truly love the game, but you can play it only once there can be two reasons: you don't have enough time in real life or the game is too difficult to complete. For the first problem, Obsidian can offer no solution, for the second one there is Story Mode already.

 

I honeslty don't see how the Berath's Blessing could harm your experience in any way. I mean, you are not worried about the ~20% of game content that you will lose playing only once, but you are worried about some optional features that you might not choose anyway? I don't get it.

Edited February 8, 2017 by SkySlam

[Adam Brennecke]

So if I get this right I need achievements to unlock these blessings. Achievements on either Steam or GOG, right?

 

 

So basically, if I don't install another third-party-tool and if I'm not connected to the net while playing I don't get any achievements. Gotta say this is really disappointing. To get locked out of content this way when I am not playing an online game.

 

It won't require to be online at all. We track achievements in the game locally.

[LordCrash]

I honeslty don't see how the Berath's Blessing could harm your experience in any way. I mean, you are not worried about the ~20% of game content that you will lose playing only once, but you are worried about some optional features that you might not choose anyway? I don't get it.

I just think that there are better solutions to offer those optional features, without tying them to certain achievements. Don't worry, it won't harm my experience anyway. Although I still think that they could use the resources to include stuff that everybody is more easily able to enjoy. Question of preference.

 

And jfyi, I'm a big fan of CRPGs but I almost never play any game more than once. I think it's boring because most of the stuff and especially the overall story stays the same. Even if there is 20 or 30% new stuff there is still 70 or 80% stuff that is still the same. So yeah, it's of course my fault that I don't want to invest time in multiple playthroughs. Another question of preference.

Edited February 8, 2017 by LordCrash

[DCParry]

 

It's just not a rational or reasonable approach to the issue. Most likely many/most of the achievements will be very, very easy to get. Many you will probably get just finishing the game the first time.

Most of us won't finish the game even once. And a lot of those tho will won't ever start another playthrough. I know many people here don't believe that but that's the reality. Just have a look at the Steam statistics if you don't believe me...

 

And not having access to something is not the same as "being punished", I mean good god. As for "people who do don't want to be forced to do certain stuff", not only is that an assumption, but by that logic I should be complaining about every magic item or stat boost that is locked behind content I don't want to do - I mean, I always end up gunning down the Doemenels, those ****, so by your logic, my not getting access to their shop/quests etc. is me being "punished" because I don't want to be forced to do certain stuff (i.e. be friends with those ****).

You really don't get the difference between choice&consequence within a single playthrough and certain stuff that is only available for a different playthrough if I make certain things in the first one?

 

Apples and oranges, mate.

 

It's all part of the rich tapestry of gaming, frankly, and I'm fine with whatever I don't get being locked away unless it's completely stupid, but this being Obsidian, not, say, Bethesda, I trust them not to be stupid.

Well, I don't.

 

 

I will move forward with the assumption your objection was made in good faith and answer it with the most likely scenario. 

 

As a few posters have mentioned, online connectivity will most likely not be required for this feature. There are many games that track achievements internally for unlocks. I am going to use Mass Effect 1 as an example, the PC version obviously. (While much of the functionality was ported from consoles, I think it still stands as a good example). Certain achievements (like hit enemies a hundred times with an assault rifle or some other nonsense) would unlock possible bonus skill choices on  subsequent playthroughs (like the assault rifle skill on classes that didn't have it such as adept). Fine, so we see how that can work without connectivity.

 

In addition, if you thought this was all nonsense and just wanted Singularity (a super overpowered Adept skill) on your Vanguard, then you go into the INI file and change the settings and viola, you had that as a bonus skill option at character creation. It is not a huge risk to assume that the same will be possible with PoE2, in that you can either change the INI or have a mod that allows said blessings on your first playthrough. I would think any counter argument that this game would be LESS moddable/editable that something like ME1 is a tenuous enough argument not to have answer. 

 

EDIT: Some other interesting info from the Fig site comments: 

 

 

 

You don't necessarily have to beat the game to get the difficulty-boosting blessings. Some of them will be unlocked after achieving certain things relatively early on, or at least that's the plan right now

brennecke

DEVELOPER

Once you get a few achievements you will be able to turn on some blessings in your next new game. The number of points you get per achievement, and the cost of the blessing will vary. The goal for the design is that the feature can be accessed by all players.

Feb 8, 2017 | 05:56 AM

 

 

brennecke

DEVELOPER

1. Yes, 2. Yep! 3. Why do you think that. We know that most players didn't finish Pillars 1, so we designed the New Game+ feature to be available to everyone. A lot of people reroll characters after a few hours of playing, so this gives them a chance to try out different options at the start of the game.

 SEE LESS

Feb 8, 2017 | 04:06 AM

 

 

 

Also, RAWR, I am the formatting MASTER! grumble

Edited February 8, 2017 by DCParry

[LordCrash]

Actually there is one blessing I'd really like to get: being able to play with 5 companions... 

[illathid]

Actually there is one blessing I'd really like to get: being able to play with 5 companions... 

 

Lucky you, that's already possible. 6 companions though is a problem.

Edited February 8, 2017 by illathid

[Caeyrii]

I'm playing an objectively gimped character at the start. Thanks Obsidian!

[Gorionsson]

Waste of money. 100% I'll skip this.

Fun for some I guess.

[JerekKruger]

I'm playing an objectively gimped character at the start. Thanks Obsidian!

 

By that reason you should hate all CRPGs since you don't start at max level with all the best gear.

[Sad Panda]

 

I'm playing an objectively gimped character at the start. Thanks Obsidian!

 

By that reason you should hate all CRPGs since you don't start at max level with all the best gear.

They've also stated that some of the "blessings" will actually make the harder. But yeah, it's a pretty silly thing to say, especially since if such an argument was to be made, it'd be about the characters being relatively gimped.

[tinysalamander]

And not having access to a bonus is not the same as "being punished", I mean good god.

 

In game design it can be. If the game is built around the fact that everyone get X it is punishment to not have X. Although it is a somewhat good masquerade because if it doesn’t says “you get -100500 to Stat” (or something) it doesn’t feel like a punishment. At first anyway.

 

That is not to say this is a case here. Need more information.

[mungomunk]

 

So if I get this right I need achievements to unlock these blessings. Achievements on either Steam or GOG, right?

 

 

So basically, if I don't install another third-party-tool and if I'm not connected to the net while playing I don't get any achievements. Gotta say this is really disappointing. To get locked out of content this way when I am not playing an online game.

 

It won't require to be online at all. We track achievements in the game locally.

 

 

Thank you so much. All my concerns have been obliterated. The (intended ambiguous?) wording in the stretch goal just had me worried.

Edited February 8, 2017 by mungomunk

[Madscientist]

I did not read everything above so sorry if I repeat somebody:

 

I dislike the way how you want to make this feature for several reasons:

- All difficulty settings should be avaiable from the start. If somebody buys the game and wants to start playing PotD TCS, they should have the option to do it.

- Achievments encourage meta gaming. People will look at the achievment list and choose their actions according to what action gives which achievement. (example: There is a quest. A players saves the game and sacrifices the baby and get an achievement for it. Then he loads the game and gets another achievement for saving the baby.) I do not think that games should be played that way, especially not when you play them for the first time.

- I dislike that you can make the game easier or harder through achievements. (example1: Bad players die 100 times, they get the achievement "die 100 times". This gives them the option to start a new game where you get 10 additional stat points) (example 2: Good players beat a dragon and get the achievement "beat the dragon". This gives them the option to start a new game and in the same fight they have to fight 2 dragons and 10 drakes at once.) I hope I will NOT see such examples in the game.

 

suggestion:

If anything, they could add something like a new game+. So first you have to finish the game normally in any difficulty setting. Then you can start a new game where you can activate all kinds of options that can make the game harder, easier or just funnier without caring about balancing or commen sense. If you activate any of these options, your achievements are disabled so you cannot pretend you have beaten the game on PotD when you activated the option to turn all enemies into pink ponys.

[DCParry]

I did not read everything above so sorry if I repeat somebody:

 

I dislike the way how you want to make this feature for several reasons:

- All difficulty settings should be avaiable from the start. If somebody buys the game and wants to start playing PotD TCS, they should have the option to do it.

- Achievments encourage meta gaming. People will look at the achievment list and choose their actions according to what action gives which achievement. (example: There is a quest. A players saves the game and sacrifices the baby and get an achievement for it. Then he loads the game and gets another achievement for saving the baby.) I do not think that games should be played that way, especially not when you play them for the first time.

- I dislike that you can make the game easier or harder through achievements. (example1: Bad players die 100 times, they get the achievement "die 100 times". This gives them the option to start a new game where you get 10 additional stat points) (example 2: Good players beat a dragon and get the achievement "beat the dragon". This gives them the option to start a new game and in the same fight they have to fight 2 dragons and 10 drakes at once.) I hope I will NOT see such examples in the game.

 

suggestion:

If anything, they could add something like a new game+. So first you have to finish the game normally in any difficulty setting. Then you can start a new game where you can activate all kinds of options that can make the game harder, easier or just funnier without caring about balancing or commen sense. If you activate any of these options, your achievements are disabled so you cannot pretend you have beaten the game on PotD when you activated the option to turn all enemies into pink ponys.

 

 

Again, a lot of people seem to be concerned about how others are playing. If a "bad player" [how are we to measure players? how fast they complete the game? how thorough their play through? Do we get grades now?] dies a 100 times on story mode, then why shouldn't they get extra stat points?

 

And what is this nonsense about pretending? I can go in right now and activate the console and do whatever I want. Why do you care? Does it hurt your immersion? Send me your address and I will mail you a bucket of water to dunk you head in, that always help me immerse myself. 

 

You are required to do nothing. Nothing at all. This is not an mmo, or a coop game, or thank the gods, any sort of multiplayer. 

[JerekKruger]

- Achievments encourage meta gaming. People will look at the achievment list and choose their actions according to what action gives which achievement. (example: There is a quest. A players saves the game and sacrifices the baby and get an achievement for it. Then he loads the game and gets another achievement for saving the baby.) I do not think that games should be played that way, especially not when you play them for the first time.

 

If this is something that bothers you, then you are always free to not meta game. If you find you can resist the temptation to meta then either it doesn't bother you as much as you think, or you need to work on your impulse control. Either way, what other people are, or aren't, doing should have exactly no impact on your own enjoyment of the game.

[Blades of Vanatar]

This is such a classic official forums response to a perfectly reasonable feature.

First we have a guy assuming it's going to be online-only, despite the game explicitly having a DRM-free version, which means nothing can be "online only".

Then after the reasonable people pointing out that this (obviously) need not be the case, we have people actively hoping for the Fig to not make money, so they don't have tolerate the presence of an ENTIRELY OPTIONAL feature. I mean good god people, get a grip.#

 

Just because this is in the game, DOES NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT mean you have to use it. It is optional, and likely there will be a lot of different options, probably some of which you will actually like. I think it's nice that they're giving boost options, because some people will really enjoy that, but you are never going to have to take them, so why get upset?

 

It's like going to the icecream parlour then throwing a fit or wishing to the employees that they go broke, because as well as having icecream, they have optional sprinkles to put on icecream.

Sprinkles?! How dare you! They are called Jimmies!!!!

 

Sheeesh people... please learn your ice cream facts. It's all fine and dandy to argue silly video game features but please keep it crisp when discussing important stuff like ice cream.

[Boeroer]

On a serious note I think everyone is just stating their distaste for an unnecessary feature and would rather see the funding dollars go to improve other aspects of the game/engine.

This sums it up quite well for me. 

[Messier-31]

On a serious note I think everyone is just stating their distaste for an unnecessary feature and would rather see the funding dollars go to improve other aspects of the game/engine.

 

+ 1 bajillion

[AndreaColombo]

Agreed. I'm not necessarily against this feature, but I can easily think of stretch goals that would add more value (eighth companion being at the top of my list, followed by the second level cap increase; and "there are others--I can show you!")

[RKHeliplex]

Anyone know if Berath's Blessing also considers POE I achievements? Like a solo PotD run, etc. in the first game affects a start in the new sequel?

[Mygaffer]

It's all in game, it's not online only, you're not locked into anything.

 

Also, I love the idea, I love new game+, I'm that kind of hardcore nerd and I will replay a game that has a 100 hour campaign. More than once if I love it.

 

EDIT: In the stream they've also said you can completely ignore Berath's Blessings. You guys watch the streams, right? Because reading these threads I feel like you aren't watching the streams.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Mygaffer

[Varana]

There's people doing transcripts of the streams on reddit. Thank god for them!

 

Because there's no way I swap five minutes of reading for listening to over an hour of talking. Sorry, but if there's nothing substantial happening visually, streams are such a horribly inefficient way of presenting information.

So no, I don't watch the streams. I can read, thank you very much.

 

(Sorry for the rant, has nothing to do with you. Carry on. )