Politics 2017 part II

[Elerond]

Republicans in House seems to have fun with Trump and how he ignores them.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-immigration-congress-order-234392

 

Hill staffers secretly worked on Trump's immigration order
Several House Judiciary Committee aides helped craft the controversial directive without telling Republican leaders.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I am not in disagreement with what you link there, but..

 

but you just want to argue anyway.

[algroth]

 

I am not in disagreement with what you link there, but..

 

but you just want to argue anyway.

 

Not with what is said in the link, but rather the link's relevance to the discussion at hand (which is about the veracity of another article on a different matter).

Edited January 31, 2017 by algroth

[Malcador]

Sally Yates chose a good way to leave her job

[Zoraptor]

But it is also very carefully constructed so that it mostly only effects Muslims. You can see what it is purpose is even though it is tried to make so that it don't blatantly break law. But its intention is quite clear from how it is constructed.

 

I wouldn't disagree with its intentions, but all sorts of laws get used differently from how they were intended- the UK threatening Iceland with anti terror measures when they wouldn't back up their banks, for example, or the legal jiggery pokery associated with Guantanamo that lets people be detained for 16 years. So long as it isn't permanent and has a plausible legal basis it is as valid as Obama's immigration EO.

 

I must say that way it is constructed reminds me of German's so called anti-Jew laws that never actually named Jews as their target, but in reality they were about only population group targeted by those laws.

Well now, that's over dramatic. Neither refugees nor immigrants have a right to enter the US any more than I do, it's entirely a privilege offered at the whim of and dependent on the goodwill of the USA government. They can extend or withdraw that privilege whenever they want to, and can place whatever restrictions they like within the laws of the US. Slightly different from gangs of brown shirted thugs Krystallnachting people who were out and out german citizens many of whose families had been there for centuries. Those laws also didn't tend to name jews as they were aimed at pretty much everyone Hitler hated- gypsies, gays, conscientious objectors, socialists/ communists, slavs rather than solely at jews.

[HoonDing]

"Sally Yates chose a good way to leave her job :lol:"

 

Nasty woman, believe me. Just look at her.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Trump's first firing as President. I'm sure he'll cherish that memory.

[Calax]

To be fair, if you come out and deliberately tell your employees, very publicly "Yeah that thing our CEO said? Ignore it" You're gonna get fired, even though you go out like a martyr because of the fact you're going with the popular opinion at the time.

 

At the same time, as the adage says, "All evil needs to win, is for good people to do nothing". If you do nothing you're complacent within all the terrible acts our president is getting us involved in as he himself is.

 

Most worrying part is that this insanity is a single week of El Presidente. We're gonna be at "Draft Everybody!" levels of war in 2020.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Here's what Dershowitz thinks she should have done: http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/01/30/dershowitz-acting-ag-made-a-political-decision-rather-than-a-legal-one-on-trump-eo-serious-mistake/

 

Edit: The danger of identity politics: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/creating-the-white-tribe/

 

Edit2: Good points: https://twitter.com/Jose_Galvan/status/826279451210063872

 

Although Trump's executive orders are only following the law or are under his Constitutional powers.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Agiel]

"Lost boys," people. "Lost boys."

 

The sooner everyone recognises that the likes of Alexandre Bissonnette and those losers who shoot up gay night clubs and rock shows in the name of Dae'esh are cut from the same cloth, the better able we are to actually solving the problem.

[Blodhemn]

"Both should be held accountable for their respective actions, one doesn't negate the other just because they stand on opposite parties."

 

That's the point.

 

 

"to use this as an argument to deny the validity of protest right now."

 

Actually, it's the perfect argument. The people protesting don't care about the banned individuals. They don't care about the morality or lack of morality of the ban. They care about the who. Thoie people are pieces of crap and need to be called out for their hypocritical lying fake news bullcrap.

 

Again, the people who are calling Trump a 'literal nazi' for this are the same people who see Obama as some Messiah figure even though he did the same thing. Yet you say that shouldn't be highlighted? COME ON. 

Must be the offspring of the people who protested Bush every day of the week for 8 years, then turned an about face as soon as Obama took over(even though he renewed and expanded the same policies of the Bush admin). Policies somehow then go unnoticed and unchecked for 8 years. Now cue the outrage once a so called right winger gets back in. Now it's called fascism again. Poor souls.

[Ben No.3]

 

How many of these we can mark as checked these days.

Adorno proposes a theory that capitalism and the rationalisation of the world almost certainly will lead to fascism. It's kinda interesting.

 

The basic line of thinking is as follows: all of society's development in history can be seen as the rationalisation of the world, meaning that nature is more and more seen as something that humans can influence. In early history, this happens by portraying Nature as gods you can influence by for example prayer. As technology progresses, we see nature more and more "as it is", and learn how to use it.

 

In a capitalist society, everything is done in order to maximise profit. Adorno now argues that it is only a matter of time until also humans are seen as a part of the nature that needs to be used in a way of profit maximisation. At this point, the capitalist system will exist only in order to sustain itself, not the people.

 

This rationalisation of the people, combined with statecapitalism (which is, According to Adorno, a necessity for capitalism in order to overcome its tendency towards crisis), leads to something like Nazi Germany or soviet Russia, a system where everything is controlled by the government and the role and the VALUE of humans is by no means self evident but can even questioned and taken away if judged not useful for society (as the Nazis viewed the Jews).

 

The people that are part of said system will also never develop a sense that the system is unfair and especially never develop a sense that they can change the system. And they don't do that, because capitalism is so all-consuming, ultimately turning every aspect of life into a profit-oriented aspect, including, eventually, culture. And if the culture is designed not to ask questions or show values but to Maxise profit, there's no insentive (to speak so) to question the system, and no one will grow aware of the unfairness and that it doesn't have to be this way.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Gromnir]

To be fair, if you come out and deliberately tell your employees, very publicly "Yeah that thing our CEO said? Ignore it" You're gonna get fired, even though you go out like a martyr because of the fact you're going with the popular opinion at the time.

 

At the same time, as the adage says, "All evil needs to win, is for good people to do nothing". If you do nothing you're complacent within all the terrible acts our president is getting us involved in as he himself is.

 

Most worrying part is that this insanity is a single week of El Presidente. We're gonna be at "Draft Everybody!" levels of war in 2020.

ask any one o' our many marine boardies 'bout the oath they took to defend the Constitution.  sure, follow orders is what we demand, but where doing so violates law is legal questionable and often moral repugnant.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERgbXRTC_K4

 

'course reality is the former ag were gonna be leaving her post very soon anyway.  her act o' resistance were more symbolic than anything else.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 31, 2017 by Gromnir

[algroth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTpkKKauPvM

[Wrath of Dagon]

20 terrorists since 2014 from countries affected by travel moratorium: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/at-least-20-alleged-terrorists-since-2014-came-from-countries-affected-by-trumps-immigration-ban/

 

Including the horrific Minnesota mall and Ohio State attacks carried out by Somalis. Good thing they couldn't obtain an AK-47 like the Bissonnette guy could. And good thing there were good guys with guns near by in both cases.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Volourn]

But... Kanada is so progressive with its anti gun laws. WUT HAPPENED?

[Hurlshort]

20 terrorists since 2014 from countries affected by travel moratorium: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/at-least-20-alleged-terrorists-since-2014-came-from-countries-affected-by-trumps-immigration-ban/

 

Including the horrific Minnesota mall and Ohio State attacks carried out by Somalis. Good thing they couldn't obtain an AK-47 like the Bissonnette guy could. And good thing there were good guys with guns near by in both cases.

 

Phew, I was worried that all this freedom we have given up was not paying off, but it seems like it is making a difference.

[BruceVC]

20 terrorists since 2014 from countries affected by travel moratorium: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/at-least-20-alleged-terrorists-since-2014-came-from-countries-affected-by-trumps-immigration-ban/

 

Including the horrific Minnesota mall and Ohio State attacks carried out by Somalis. Good thing they couldn't obtain an AK-47 like the Bissonnette guy could. And good thing there were good guys with guns near by in both cases.

It shouldn't even be a debate if extremist groups like ISIS  get supporters from some  Sunni Muslims from the countries that have been banned, Iran is the exception to this as its Shia and ISIS support would be rare, if evident at all, from there

 

It surprises me that anyone who wants to have a real debate around this would suggest there is no justification for these restrictions especially considering the fact these governments have no way to ensure vetting for their citizens who fly to the USA

 

For example Somalia is the homeland of Al-Shabaab

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaab_(militant_group)

 

In Yemen you have al-qaeda in Yemen

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_insurgency_in_Yemen

 

I can give many examples for all other countries on list but I think the point is made 

[Gfted1]

One person cant kill dozens? Do they only get dangerous in groups of 21+ or something?

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

20 terrorists since 2014 from countries affected by travel moratorium: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/at-least-20-alleged-terrorists-since-2014-came-from-countries-affected-by-trumps-immigration-ban/

 

Including the horrific Minnesota mall and Ohio State attacks carried out by Somalis. Good thing they couldn't obtain an AK-47 like the Bissonnette guy could. And good thing there were good guys with guns near by in both cases.

 

Phew, I was worried that all this freedom we have given up was not paying off, but it seems like it is making a difference.

 

What freedoms have we given up?

[Meshugger]

I am finding it too funny that the president that actually lives up to his campaign promises is apparently the most hated one or viewed most unfavourably.

 

What a time to be alive.

[Gfted1]

What freedoms have we given up?

Well I know for a fact that they are staring directly at my dong whenever I go through a full body scanner. I just so happen to be ok with it.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

20 terrorists since 2014 from countries affected by travel moratorium: http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/30/at-least-20-alleged-terrorists-since-2014-came-from-countries-affected-by-trumps-immigration-ban/

 

Including the horrific Minnesota mall and Ohio State attacks carried out by Somalis. Good thing they couldn't obtain an AK-47 like the Bissonnette guy could. And good thing there were good guys with guns near by in both cases.

Phew, I was worried that all this freedom we have given up was not paying off, but it seems like it is making a difference.

What freedoms have we given up?

Privacy for example?

 

There is no more privacy in this world, why are we okay with that? When did we start to believe everyone is suspicious?

 

There was a time when "innocent until proven guilty" and "in dubio pro reo" ("in an unclear case, the accused wins", meaning you had to be proven to be clearly guilty by evidence not indicators and suspicions) meant something in practice not theory. But oh well...

 

No rights lost, right?

 

Right?

Edited January 31, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Malcador]

But... Kanada is so progressive with its anti gun laws. WUT HAPPENED?

Smuggled in from the US, maybe?

Edited January 31, 2017 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

I am finding it too funny that the president that actually lives up to his campaign promises is apparently the most hated one or viewed most unfavourably.

 

What a time to be alive.

Its  not inconsistent because Trump made many campaign promises, some of them he has already indicated he wont pursue but others he has to implement or his supporters will see him as  a hypocrite 

 

Campaign promises like the Wall and the banning of Muslims from certain countries are very controversial for many people and they will draw understandable criticism