majestic Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 Of course Dems hate Russia and love Saudi Arabia. Russians are white. Saudis are not. 'Nough said. Republicans don't seem to be fans of Russia (well or brown people either ). But Saudi is useful to them in some way in the game, maybe less going forward. Lies by the mainstream media. Lies, I tells you. LIES. "LMFAO R00fles" No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.
Guard Dog Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago. So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies? Heck we held a grudge against the British for over 100 years after the battle of New Orleans. We didn't really start cooperating with them until the Zimmerman incident in WWI. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
BrotherFerg Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago. So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies? The same reason Russia is not on friendly terms with Europe. They orchestrate revolts in Eastern European countries when those said countries turn toward the West instead of the East as Putin tries to "win back" the old sphere of influence. Putin is a Narcissist. Why should Eastern Europe look to Russia when its clear that the West has higher standard of livings? The West and Russia have different values on what it means to be a Democracy or Republic and the differences make us incompatible to be allies. The west doesn't seek to conquer and expand actual territory. Russia does. The Russian economy is a facade, what most people don't realize is that Russia's economy is roughly the size of Mexicos. Not only that, but it is a one track economy and might as well be an Oil and Gas business. Putin has been in power for 16 years and has not diversified the market. So Western Europe isn't going to want to get too entangled in Russian business as it is very unstable and their financial sector is like a house of cards. The US wants Russia to concentrate its resources on improving standard of living and investing in a multifaceted healthy economy, instead Russia parades around the world like the Emperor without clothes. Every American administration tries to reset relations, but it always collapses as Russia invades Ukraine, or he invades Georgia. Give Putin an inch and he takes a mile. That's why Obama snubs him, when you let him become to comfortable with you he will take advantage of you. Just like he's grooming Trump now. Edited December 30, 2016 by BrotherFerg Why does a chair have arms and legs like a man, but can't walk or hold things?
majestic Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) The same reason Russia is not on friendly terms with Europe. They orchestrate revolts in Eastern European countries when those said countries turn toward the West instead of the East as Putin tries to "win back" the old sphere of influence. Putin is a Narcissist. Why should Eastern Europe look to Russia when its clear that the West has higher standard of livings? The West and Russia have different values on what it means to be a Democracy or Republic and the differences make us incompatible to be allies. The west doesn't seek to conquer and expand actual territory. Russia does. The Russian economy is a facade, what most people don't realize is that Russia's economy is roughly the size of Mexicos. Not only that, but it is a one track economy and might as well be an Oil and Gas business. Putin has been in power for 16 years and has not diversified the market. So Western Europe isn't going to want to get too entangled in Russian business as it is very unstable and their financial sector is like a house of cards. Sure, and the invasion of Iraq was because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he wanted to hurt muh daddy, right? Putin certainly isn't an angel but he is no worse than our NATO-buddy Erdogan and those nice Saudi royalty guys who regularily decapitate more people than the Islamic State. Edited December 30, 2016 by majestic No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering.
BrotherFerg Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) The same reason Russia is not on friendly terms with Europe. They orchestrate revolts in Eastern European countries when those said countries turn toward the West instead of the East as Putin tries to "win back" the old sphere of influence. Putin is a Narcissist. Why should Eastern Europe look to Russia when its clear that the West has higher standard of livings? The West and Russia have different values on what it means to be a Democracy or Republic and the differences make us incompatible to be allies. The west doesn't seek to conquer and expand actual territory. Russia does. The Russian economy is a facade, what most people don't realize is that Russia's economy is roughly the size of Mexicos. Not only that, but it is a one track economy and might as well be an Oil and Gas business. Putin has been in power for 16 years and has not diversified the market. So Western Europe isn't going to want to get too entangled in Russian business as it is very unstable and their financial sector is like a house of cards. Sure, and the invasion of Iraq was because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he wanted to hurt muh daddy, right? Putin certainly isn't an angel but he is no worse than our NATO-buddy Erdogan and those nice Saudi royalty guys who regularily decapitate more people than the Islamic State. Actually he is worse. The point isn't who is the bigger ****, the point is why US and Russia don't get along. Eastern European countries gravitate towards the west because they see the individual prosperity enjoyed by the citizenry as compared to Russia which I shouldn't have to elaborate on. It's like when a girl wants to be with you because they see you enjoy a healthier lifestyle than the bigger dirt bag who wants to physically drag them back and control the things they say. The two guys will not get along very well. Russia still has the Cold War Complex of trying to force people into liking them so as to hate the United States with them. And if you've ever been to Russia (outside teh main streets of Moscow and Petersburg) you'll see that they LITERALLY still live in the past as well. I hope the best for the Russian people, but their priorities need to be on improving the life of the average Russian, not creating a militarized state hell bent on making their neighbors just as miserable as they are. Edited December 30, 2016 by BrotherFerg Why does a chair have arms and legs like a man, but can't walk or hold things?
Zoraptor Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) -snip- Yeah, they weren't exactly subtle. ..what most people don't realize is that Russia's economy is roughly the size of Mexicos. That's one of those things that is technically true, but... Russia's Purchasing Power Parity per capita GDP is around 50% higher than Mexico's in WB, IMF and CIA estimates. Nominal GDP is a pretty useless- actively misleading, often- measure as it doesn't take varying cost of living into account. PPP measures the practical worth of economic output rather than the theoretical value, in other words. Edited December 30, 2016 by Zoraptor
213374U Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 Eastern European countries gravitate towards the west because they see the individual prosperity enjoyed by the citizenry as compared to Russia which I shouldn't have to elaborate on. It's like when a girl wants to be with you because they see you enjoy a healthier lifestyle than the bigger dirt bag who wants to physically drag them back and control the things they say. The two guys will not get along very well. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
BrotherFerg Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 lol Why does a chair have arms and legs like a man, but can't walk or hold things?
Darkpriest Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago. So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies? Putin is the issue. The way he rose to power, his methods, his lack of ethics and manipulation. But I happen to think cuddling up to Islam and soft marxism like the far left does is more dangerous. I don't know where the democrats find moral high ground here while they take money from Saudi despots and actively defend a destructive religious ideology. So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence?
Malcador Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 I do have a question, what do we the USA have against Russia? Russia has always been viewed as the bad guy here growing up, but that was due to **** that happened yearssssss ago. So besides the democrates putting the blame on Russia instead of owning up to their **** ups, why are the republicans and a good bit against Russia? Why is it so bad for us to be on friendly terms, dare say allies? Well why should they be allies? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gfted1 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So we can team up against China in WWIII. We'll handle the surgical precision and they can ram stuff with their tanks. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
aluminiumtrioxid Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. 2 "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
Wrath of Dagon Posted December 31, 2016 Author Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) US is hardly a police state, that's a ridiculous statement. Edit: David Burge @iowahawkblog Breaking: State Dept expels 20 Nigerian diplomats after John Podesta fails to receive $1 million wire transfer from nephew of General Okezi Cool story: https://strategypage.com/military_photos/2016122918409.aspx Edited December 31, 2016 by Wrath of Dagon "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
Malcador Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So we can team up against China in WWIII. We'll handle the surgical precision and they can ram stuff with their tanks. Well, China was the enemy of the US in C&C Generals... Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Darkpriest Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. Have you been to Russia? I've been there and in the US, so I can compare.
aluminiumtrioxid Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. Have you been to Russia? I've been there and in the US, so I can compare. LOL. "I, the investment banker, have visited Russia and now I'm an expert about the life and the amount of freedom enjoyed by the average citizen who doesn't have enough money to throw at problems until they disappear!" "Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."
BruceVC Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. Have you been to Russia? I've been there and in the US, so I can compare. Dark you not seriously suggesting Russia is a free society? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Raithe Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 The heart of democracy is violence. In order to decide what to do, we take a count of everyone for and against it, and then do whatever the larger side wishes to do. We're having a symbolic battle, its outcome decided by simple numbers. It saves us time and no end of trouble counting actual bodies - but don't mistake it for anything but ritualised violence. And every few years, if the person we elected doesn't do the job we wanted, we vote him out of office - we symbolically behead him and replace him with someone else. Again, without the actual pain and bloodshed, but acting out the ritual of violence nonetheless. It's just a very practical way of getting things done. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
BrotherFerg Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. Have you been to Russia? I've been there and in the US, so I can compare. I have and I actually lived there. For example I learned very early that the homosexual community remains oppressed, 80% of the media is state controlled, police will extort money from you without issuing proper citations for a violation (because they are under paid). Even worse the government propaganda is constantly reminding you that Russia's problems come from the West and not incompetent inner policy. The state is creating a paranoid mentality that swings from delusions of persecution to delusions of grandeur. The media in the US is not perfect by any means. But here you atleast have plurality. Oh and journalists aren't gunned down by the secret service. Russia is not like the west, they have a political culture that borders on autocraticy. And if the polls are to be believed that's how they prefer it. Edited December 31, 2016 by BrotherFerg 3 Why does a chair have arms and legs like a man, but can't walk or hold things?
Gfted1 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Well, China was the enemy of the US in C&C Generals... See! Its all part of our master plan. India's 1B population to hem in the South, an ocean to the East, and mother Russia to the North! Soon we can tear down the Great Wall of China and use the bricks to assemble the Great Wall of Trump. Oh glorious day! "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Darkpriest Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) So you want to tell me that US is a crystal clean democracy, where symphaties of voters actually matter? That there is more freedom and it's not more closer to an actual police state with many shady institutions governing and policing you over which you have no real influence? More freedom than in Russia? That's not exactly a high bar to clear. Have you been to Russia? I've been there and in the US, so I can compare. Dark you not seriously suggesting Russia is a free society? are they not? they have more personal freedoms than people in EU or US. They are not getting shot by the police on the streets, there is less overall surveillance. Sure, on average they have less money, the media are mostly steered by pro-gov powers and it's difficult to get to high positions of wealth and power and there is limited influence of you average citizens or the ones living outside of main hubs for the politics, but is it really that much different from what you are experiencing in EU and US? Isn't this just a matter of perception rather than actual power of the individual. Can you really tell that you actually can have your input on the politics and who represents you and your point of view? The only country that does so fairly well (or at least it seemed like it when i was there) is Switzerland. I'd trade a lot to be a Swiss citizen. @BrotherFerg are they systematically oppressed? is there a law to jail someone for being homosexual? perhaps it's not oppression, but simply lack of extra privileges? Edited December 31, 2016 by Darkpriest 1
redneckdevil Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) Thanks everybody, tried looking it up but I'm just seeing a lot of bs so I'd ask y'all. So it boils down to we need a adversary and Russia fits the bill because they don't wanna play our game and do the same stuff we do but to people we are allies with. While I LOVE democracy, I'm at least open minded to know that it's not for everyone and that isn't something we should hold against them. I guess it's to much trouble for our govt to be on friendly terms and give and take with Russia and keep an eye on them like they would to us. Edited December 31, 2016 by redneckdevil 1
Malcador Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Well, China was the enemy of the US in C&C Generals...See! Its all part of our master plan. India's 1B population to hem in the South, an ocean to the East, and mother Russia to the North! Soon we can tear down the Great Wall of China and use the bricks to assemble the Great Wall of Trump. Oh glorious day! Generals does end with the US losing its role as top dog and China takes over, if I recall. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Elerond Posted January 1, 2017 Posted January 1, 2017 @BrotherFerg are they systematically oppressed? is there a law to jail someone for being homosexual? perhaps it's not oppression, but simply lack of extra privileges? There is laws that if you speak about homosexuality you can be jailed, because of spreading homosexual propaganda. These laws are used to jail people carrying rainbow flags etc. symbols of LGBT community, so I would say that they are very much systematically oppressed.
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