Fallout 4 is coming!

[HoonDing]

"Ethically"

 

Really, now?

[Longknife]

 

VERY BRIEF SUMMARY

Longknife, take some advice from from me. Quit looking into it and go in without comparing it to the older titles. Should you do this? Ethically no because I agree with everything you've been saying, but for me to get any enjoyment outta it I'm gonna go in expecting and thinking its a new IP. Bethesda has this thing about reinventing the wheel every single time and cutting corners. We can sit here and bitch and moan, buts it's Bethesda and right now besides witcher 3 there isn't really any RPGs out so even if we vote with our wallet, they won't notice our lack money throw at them.

It's like fallout 3. Very fun game but a very horrible "fallout" game. I have a feeling fallout 4 is gonna be the same, whereas Bethesda wants each game to be judged by its own merits but because it's part of a series we the customers are gonna compare it to the others. Don't compare it to the others such as fallout new Vegas and hopefully we both will enjoy the game for simply being a fun game and won't get hung up on the "fallout" part because we know it will be lacking. So my advice is to simply go in thinking brand new ip and don't think of the older titles and hopefully we both will find some enjoyment outta it. We can then sit and pray that obsidian will get a second shot and make the next fallout game a fun but also a good "fallout" game. Otherwise we are just setting ourselves up for justified disappointment.

 

 

 

Your argument is "we have to settle for less."

 

No we don't wtf. I don't need video games to be happy. I enjoy them, but I can entertain myself with or without Fallout 4. It'd be nice if it were entertaining, but if it's not, then I'll get my entertainment elsewhere.

 

That's what I don't get: everyone's so ready to settle for less. WTF no just bail on the gaming industry for a year or two if it's being so crud, they'll get the hint and then you can come back. Money talks with companies.

 

And if you think your money won't talk? Let your voice. That's part of the reason I refuse to shutup and continue to voice criticism, no matter how painfully obvious it feels at times that people aren't fond of my criticisms. I like to think that, even if people consider me an idiot and some ass who just wants to bitch and complain, that maybe, just maybe, 2 years down the line or whatever when they play a game and know the feeling of noticing a drop in quality, they'll remember some of the things I said and maybe become a bit more critical themselves.

 

 

Find the whole topic very depressing. Not just with video games, but with capitalism in general. So many people seem willing to settle for less just cause they feel powerless vs. a big company. :/

 

 

And just for clarity because people forget: I am not an oldschool, hardcore Fallout fan. FO3 was my first Fallout game. I am a hardcore New Vegas fan; Fallout as a series has the potential to follow up on it's quality, but I would definitely consider New Vegas in a league of it's own amongst the series. Not to say the others aren't good, but New Vegas was a masterpiece. In the span of two years, I saw the best game I've ever played and the worst game I've ever played (wouldn't call it the worst game ever by a long shot, but the worst I've purchased...? Yeah actually) released by the same publisher. It's very clear we can get outstanding quality today and there's nothing hindering that....except for customers bending over and taking it.

[BruceVC]

 

Look I'll admit you are more passionate about this me, I can see you have spent time researching what has been released and giving an honest view of  what you think is lacking 

 

 

And I respect that, and I'm not being sarcastic. I mean that. But there does seem to be a strange incongruity with your posts...you know so much about the game in the sense of what has been released yet you still say you don't really like the concept or many game design decisions  ?

 

I'm simplifying my question but why spend so much time on a subject if you don't care about it ? You know more than me about Fallout 4 yet I'm excited. I guess I don't understand why anyone would spend so much time in RL  on a game that they don't even care for ?

 

 

 

Again I'm frustrated, because your implication is that you think I want to be skeptical or want to hate what I see, or want Fallout 4 to fail. I really loathe this attitude of yours and that of others, because it highlights how people falsely associate criticism with hate.

 

Of course not wtf, I want it to succeed (if it deserves to). But I'm not so blindly loyal to that desire of mine that I'll let it cloud my perception of reality. What purpose would that serve, lying to myself so that I too pre-order it and pray for an amazing game when my gut expects otherwise?

 

I wanted a decent Fallout game, and I wanted to play one, so of course I pay attention to the news. But no matter how much new info we get, nothing seems explained or like it was thought-out. Instead it feels like the game is focused more on sales than on being an exceptional experience. I don't want a 6/10 game, I want a 10/10 one.

 

 

I will be here to watch a Let's player play the game and either confirm or deny my suspicions that the game sucks. And if it sucks...? Then that's probably the nail in the coffin for my history with Bethesda. That'll probably be my final sign that it's time to stop following their work or bothering with them. If I wanted the game to fail, I wouldn't be around discussing it like the rest of you. Just because I'm not practicing 20 different ways to kiss it's ass as I wait for it to release doesn't mean I don't want it to be a good product, I just don't see how blind praise is the superior alternative to a critical eye.

 

 

Aside from that, this is becoming a fascination of mine. Not just Fallout, but games in general. Hype, marketing, pre-orders, and the cycle of disappointment. It amazes me to watch this happen over and over and over and over. I'm tempted to ask for the age of every person in this thread, wondering if it's my age and experience that makes me so critical while others are still young (16 or so) and have yet to be burned by a lackluster product that regresses in quality, and thus such companies feed off of that inexperience to make more money for less effort. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Sims 4, every Call of Duty release ever, Bioshock Infinite...these are all games that I'd follow moreso out of astonishment to watch people fall for their hype trains and try to understand why.

 

 

 

Let me say this, and try to refute this if you can, just for the sake of making a point:

 

 

We would have better quality games if the general audience were more critical and cautious with purchases. If people were quicker to focus on flaws that might discourage a purchase rather than to focus on the EXACT flashy features the developers make a focal point of their presentation, then it would demand higher quality from the developers if they truly wish to make a sale, no? So why are people so turned off by my critical approach to gameplay releases...?

 

You make some good points and sorry if I am making assumptions around your view of the game. But I don't think you hate Fallout 4...but your view has been primarily negative...lets be honest

 

But I can understand what you are protesting about, it is  summarized nicely in the last paragraph. And I don't disagree...but I have learnt to chose my battles in life and this is one you cant win even if you are right 

 

And the main reason you can't win is to really change the development trajectory of  a company like Bethesda you would have to implement  a real consumer boycott of there games ..as you alluded to you can change corporate behavior and strategy by hitting them in there revenue stream

 

But even if every person on this forum boycotted there next game there are millions of people who are very happy with there games and will still purchase Fallout 4. So it makes no difference if I support you to be honest because we cannot change the reality of there dedicated fanbase who will support them financially and they will still be very profitable....hence they will miss our support but end of the day they won't change there core game design ?

[redneckdevil]

"Ethically"

 

Really, now?

Yeah poor choice to use. It's hot and I just got finished walking to work and when u step into the doors of walmart, everyone's iq drops.....so yeah, couldn't think of a word at that time to fit lol.

 

 

Long knife-yes, I'm saying u gonna have to settle for less. Obsidian did fallout new Vegas and Bethesda with Todd Howard leading did Skyrim. 2 separate companies with separate flavored and focus. Tbh since Bethesda got rid of Kirkbride their ingame writing has been nose diving further and further. Kirkbride is the one who has written most of the lore and story that TES games are using and still following, that's why the lore is outstanding but the execution ingame has been very subpar along with Todds direction. Obsidian is focused on story and c&c, Bethesda is focused on exploration and theme parks.

I'm saying ur gonna have to settle for less because Bethesda has always, ALWAYS been reinventing the wheel and cutting things and "streamlining" to make room for other ideas. Writing has never been a focus point for them, though they have had a few gems, it's never been the focus that a Bethesda game has great writing...

[Amentep]

Half of your post is essentially lumping all forms of complainers into one universal category instead of attempting to examine why and how they complain. By all means, ignore those who continue to complain Fallout isn't still isometric, but don't automatically label me as just as unreasonable as them just because we both happen to be complaining. Examine my complaints on their own merit. And why should they give me a reason...??

 

I wasn't trying to label you unreasonable; by all means I wouldn't argue that anyone shouldn't specifically make their points on whatever forums will allow them to, but I also can understand - from Bethesda's perspective - there's no pleasing everyone.  The Fallout fans have agreeable "not really bothered" sorts like me, passionate ones like you and the fringe element like the isometric guy mentioned earlier. And while they may not earn a sell to those - like you - who feel that they need more explanation of why there are changes to "tried and true" systems, I also don't feel that Bethesda is actually obligated to give them.

 

As you say, they may just have no reason but thought it was cool and can't defend it otherwise so opt not to speak of it. I'm not trying to argue motivations for Bethesda so much as to argue I think its quite understandable about how addressing complaints to the strong Fallout fanbase may not always be a productive use of their time, regardless of reasons.  Because reason doesn't always stop the "but...but...but..." reactions in some (many by the Interplay experience).

 

I will never in a thousand years even begin to understand why people insist on shielding the heartless entities called "companies" that don't even know their names, nor give a **** about them beyond their wallets.

 

I'm not trying to defend them so much as I'm more or less stating that I don't expect a company to give a **** about me beyond my wallet.  Its nice when they do, but I don't expect it.

 

You may say that's not right - maybe it isn't. But most companies aren't in the business to please a fanbase, they're there to sell the most product - and they'll ditch the fanbase if they can sell the most product by appealing to others than the fanbase.  And if pandering to the fans gets the most sales, then they'll do that too.

 

Maybe there is an exception in those companies that are led by creative types who might feel more justified in making an artistic decision over a financial one because of the feels.  Maybe.  But I don't really think Bethesda fits that mode?

Edited July 28, 2015 by Amentep

[Hurlshort]

Longknife, can you explain in a bit more detail what you mean?

[Gizmo]

By all means, ignore those who continue to complain Fallout isn't still isometric, but don't automatically label me as just as unreasonable as them just because we both happen to be complaining.

Oh and thank you very much; WTH?

Edited July 29, 2015 by Gizmo

[WDeranged]

 

By all means, ignore those who continue to complain Fallout isn't still isometric, but don't automatically label me as just as unreasonable as them just because we both happen to be complaining.

Oh and thank you very much; WTH?

 

 

[Longknife]

Longknife, can you explain in a bit more detail what you mean?

 

 

Was this sarcasm?

[kirottu]

[Longknife]

 

 

I wish I still had Bethesda forum access because I owe a lot of people "I told you so"'s right now.

 

Also amazed at how many people are considering this good news...

Edited August 6, 2015 by Longknife

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I wish I still had Bethesda forum access because I owe a lot of people "I told you so"'s right now.

 

Also amazed at how many people are considering this good news...

 

Why don't you just  create  a new account and use an IP Proxy to disguise your IP address?

[HoonDing]

 

 

 

 

I wish I still had Bethesda forum access because I owe a lot of people "I told you so"'s right now.

 

Also amazed at how many people are considering this good news...

 

Why don't you just  create  a new account and use an IP Proxy to disguise your IP address?

 

Don't forget yourself, oby.

[Gfted1]

So if youve finished the game and presumably most (all) quests, how do you keep leveling? Must just be a wasteland of respawning enemies?

[Darkpriest]

Technically in Fallout 2 you could do the same, but I do not remember a playthrough where I would keep playing after the ending sequence. Everything seemed to be resolved.

 

I doubt the FO4 will have quality of FO2 in terms of quest, dialogs and general writing, so it will more or less be just a wasteland shooter in power armor, without cars... meh....

[Longknife]

Why don't you just  create  a new account and use an IP Proxy to disguise your IP address?

 

 

Because I am not a dishonest individual, and while I can criticize the crap out of their ****ty ban system that NEVER has warning points expire even if it results in year old members with only 0.0005% of their posts being deemed inappropriate by the mod staff being permanently banned from all forum access, I still accept the fact that it's their website and their rules, so I'm ready to play by said rules and respect that.

 

 

 

So if youve finished the game and presumably most (all) quests, how do you keep leveling? Must just be a wasteland of respawning enemies?

 

 

You keep exploring the world (because exploration is the main feature!) and also the plot device enemy type (Oblivion gate, Enclave, dragon attacks) will continue to occur despite the resolution.

 

 

My concerns were two-fold: SPECIAL can be maxed slowly over time and there will be no level cap. Half of my predictions are now correct, so I'm just waiting for it to be revealed that you gradually gain more SPECIAL points through gameplay.

 

Think about it: what purpose does continuing to level serve if you're restricted to ~28 base perks that you unlocked with your SPECIAL? Exactly, it would serve no purpose once you unlock all perks available to you....unless you can increase the amount of perks available to you and get those too.

[ManifestedISO]

No limit hold 'em, alright. Me and Dog, forever. 

[Gizmo]

Also amazed at how many people are considering this good news...

I'm not amazed that it's so many... just disappointed that it is.

 

*It shows one that Bethesda truly knows their audience. When you want James Burke from them, you get Stern and Mandel.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Gizmo

[Orogun01]

So if youve finished the game and presumably most (all) quests, how do you keep leveling? Must just be a wasteland of respawning enemies?

And that dear children is what we call a soft level cap.

[Lexx]

Pff, leveling through shooting stuff, ofc. I mean, it will be the main activity anyway... So far Bethesda has yet to show a single quest or anything RPG-related.

[BruceVC]

 

Why don't you just  create  a new account and use an IP Proxy to disguise your IP address?

 

 

Because I am not a dishonest individual, and while I can criticize the crap out of their ****ty ban system that NEVER has warning points expire even if it results in year old members with only 0.0005% of their posts being deemed inappropriate by the mod staff being permanently banned from all forum access, I still accept the fact that it's their website and their rules, so I'm ready to play by said rules and respect that.

 

 

 

Longknife I work with security  software and I respect most laws about things like the Electronic Discovery Reference Model that corporations use as a framework  for eDiscovery

 

Anyway the point is I respect Internet protocol on these matters...but this is just a gaming website, dude its not about integrity. If you miss the website just lie and go back ....there is no shame here. You can't take there judgement seriously and let it impact your life 

[Orogun01]

Pff, leveling through shooting stuff, ofc. I mean, it will be the main activity anyway... So far Bethesda has yet to show a single quest or anything RPG-related.

I think Bethesda quit making RPGs around the time that Oblivion came out, although considering that I hat Morrowind that might be a change for the better.

[BruceVC]

Pff, leveling through shooting stuff, ofc. I mean, it will be the main activity anyway... So far Bethesda has yet to show a single quest or anything RPG-related.

Lexx are you sure you aren't misunderstanding some quest dialog? What version are you playing...English or German ?

[Undecaf]

So if youve finished the game and presumably most (all) quests, how do you keep leveling? Must just be a wasteland of respawning enemies?

I'm sure they'll have all sorts of repeatable busywork activities there along with the wasteland tycoon ****.

[Amentep]

Pff, leveling through shooting stuff, ofc. I mean, it will be the main activity anyway... So far Bethesda has yet to show a single quest or anything RPG-related.

 

Could also be hiking XP.