Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[Longknife]

 

none of the major outlets have covered the new trailer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance. They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG.

 

Citation needed

 

 

 

It can be impossible to prove a negative. Burden of proof would be on anyone who doubts his claims to go find one.

[Ineth]

"They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG" (emphasis on "because") is a strong claim that needs evidence.

 

Are there leaked emails from a journalist admitting such black-listing?

Is there some statistical analysis showing that similar game releases (for a useful & detailed value of 'similar') normally do get coverage on those gaming sites?¹

Did they cover Vavra's game project before he came out as pro-GG?

 

 

---

¹⁾  Lots of games large and small get made every year across the globe; Only a few (mostly American ones) get big coverage on American gaming news sites.

[Bos_hybrid]

"They refuse to cover it because Daniel Vavra is pro-GG" (emphasis on "because") is a strong claim that needs evidence.

 

Are there leaked emails from a journalist admitting such black-listing?

Is there some statistical analysis showing that similar game releases (for a useful & detailed value of 'similar') normally do get coverage on those gaming sites?¹

Did they cover Vavra's game project before he came out as pro-GG?

 

 

---

¹⁾  Lots of games large and small get made every year across the globe; Only a few (mostly American ones) get big coverage on American gaming news sites.

 

It's a major kickstarter success story, that got plenty of coverage before GG began. Of course it could be because Vavra wouldn't sleep with them, but I doubt he's their type.

 

Either way they aren't covering it now, which shows just how the clique is still going strong.

[Keyrock]

Whether the ant-GG sites deliberately decided to not cover Kingdom Come: Deliverance's latest video because of Daniel Vavra's pro-GG stance or it was a coincidence, the lack of coverage hasn't stopped the project from having a really great week of crowdfunding pledges coming in.  They can shun projects on their sites all they want (same as we can shun their sites), but we can spread the message ourselves.  That is the power of today's interconnected world, it's very difficult to control the message and shut voices down because we can skip the middleman and get the message directly.  Maybe no single non-industry person has the power to reach nearly the amount of people a big site can, but collectively, our voice is loud.

 

As an aside, anyone here pledge for alpha access?  If so I'd be interested to hear impressions.  I only pledged for the final released game, so I won't be taking part in the alpha.  

 

Edit: As for the Intel thing, I'm going to continue to do as I've always done, that is to buy from whichever manufacturer gives me the best value for the features and performance I desire.  My last CPU purchase was from Intel because AMD simply doesn't have a compelling product in the market I was shopping in.  I've bought from AMD in the past and I will do so again in the future if they are ever able to compete in the mid-to upper desktop segment again, or if I'm in the market for a laptop and their APUs seem like the best price/performance value at that time.  Or I'll buy from Intel if their product seems like the best value for my dollar.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Keyrock

[Ganrich]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/209269/Warhorse_Studios_Hits_Kickstarter_Target_For_Kingdom_ComeDeliverance_in_48_Hours.php

 

http://kotaku.com/tag/kingdom-come-deliverance

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/22/warhorse-on-kingdom-comes-kickstarter-episodic-plans/

 

There are links to gamasutra, kotaku, and RPS discussing KC: D prior to GG, and during their kickstarter. The video has been out for 3 days I believe, and cinemablend is the only article I have seen. You are free to prove me wrong and find a few others, and you can check the other major sites to see if they promoted the game up until the past month or so. This is enough to make a logical assessment that they are trying to hurt these devs for disagreeing. I doubt they will publicly say, "We won't cover you now." That proves one of the major points of the GG movement that they are strong arming indies that don't step into line.

[Volourn]

That Kian article is garbage and is blatantly anti GG.  He makes excuses for her because he believes gamers are white male rapists. He even admits that he  has a low opinion on 'traditional gamers' in that very article and then tries to 'haha' his way out of it. Piece of crap. 

[Hiro Protagonist]

As for the Intel thing, I'm going to continue to do as I've always done, that is to buy from whichever manufacturer gives me the best value for the features and performance I desire.  

 

Yep, that's what I do. I have the money so I don't mind shelling out the dollars. I've always bought intel because I think they're better than AMD and will continue to do so. The same with buying Nvidia over Radeon. I go for the best product imo.

[Keyrock]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/209269/Warhorse_Studios_Hits_Kickstarter_Target_For_Kingdom_ComeDeliverance_in_48_Hours.php

 

http://kotaku.com/tag/kingdom-come-deliverance

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/22/warhorse-on-kingdom-comes-kickstarter-episodic-plans/

 

There are links to gamasutra, kotaku, and RPS discussing KC: D prior to GG, and during their kickstarter. The video has been out for 3 days I believe, and cinemablend is the only article I have seen. You are free to prove me wrong and find a few others, and you can check the other major sites to see if they promoted the game up until the past month or so. This is enough to make a logical assessment that they are trying to hurt these devs for disagreeing. I doubt they will publicly say, "We won't cover you now." That proves one of the major points of the GG movement that they are strong arming indies that don't step into line.

Techraptor is the only other site that's done an article on them that I've seen and it's an article about how there are no articles about it other than Cinemablend.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Keyrock

[Hiro Protagonist]

Disgraceful.

 

Oh, and I love the comments in that Techraptor article, especially the picture of Vavra.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Side Note: https://mobile.twitter.com/erikkain/status/518531324215570435 Erik Kain getting a few people together to stream for a debate tomorrow. TotalBiscuit, Greg Tito, and Janelle Bonanno will join Erik Kain to debate GG.

 

Are there going to be any trigger warnings during the stream. I don't want to be offended.

[NWN_babaYaga]

Gaming culture... them evil gamers... we must burrrrrrnnn dem gamorzz now....evil precious gamergate... gamergate culture.... burrrrnnn dem evil gamorgators....

 

Is there any sane person on the "other" so called anti-gg side left who clearly gets the message that gamergate is just a way to point out how WRONG the so called gaming media is and that insulting the own customers is not very professional ?

But yeah... it´s about dem evil privileged gamorz who wants to be dem evil privileged gamor!

 

We need MORRRR gamergaters!

Edited October 5, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[pmp10]

The video has been out for 3 days I believe, and cinemablend is the only article I have seen. You are free to prove me wrong and find a few others, and you can check the other major sites to see if they promoted the game up until the past month or so. This is enough to make a logical assessment that they are trying to hurt these devs for disagreeing. I doubt they will publicly say, "We won't cover you now." That proves one of the major points of the GG movement that they are strong arming indies that don't step into line.

You make it sound as if they boycotted the official trailer of the game.

This is just update number 8.

I doubt they covered previous 7 so why should anything be different this time?

[Ganrich]

You mean the trailer that starts at around 12:40 in that video update that is an official teaser trailer?

 

 

Edit: Seems gamespot finally posted the video. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/non-fantasy-rpg-kingdom-come-alpha-coming-october-/1100-6422747/

Edited October 5, 2014 by Ganrich

[Keyrock]

 

The video has been out for 3 days I believe, and cinemablend is the only article I have seen. You are free to prove me wrong and find a few others, and you can check the other major sites to see if they promoted the game up until the past month or so. This is enough to make a logical assessment that they are trying to hurt these devs for disagreeing. I doubt they will publicly say, "We won't cover you now." That proves one of the major points of the GG movement that they are strong arming indies that don't step into line.

You make it sound as if they boycotted the official trailer of the game.

This is just update number 8.

I doubt they covered previous 7 so why should anything be different this time?

 

It's significant because it announces the release date of the alpha, which is not only a milestone but also significant for those interested in testing the game and/or getting in on it when it's still raw and unfinished so they can see how the game changes during development.  I agree that reporting on other updates along the lines of hey here's some concept art and a bio of one of our developers isn't something that's regularly covered by sites, but usually major milestones such as an alpha release do get a mention, particularly when it's a relatively major (in terms of how much money they raised) project.

[HoonDing]

Maybe it was because of his stupid T-shirt and evil lazy eye.

[BruceVC]

How do you guys know that those websites you mentioned decided to intentionally delay posting  that trailer about Kingdom?

 

Also how do you know if they did delay it was because of GG, I'm missing the connection?

[Malcador]

Is a possible reason, he has been fairly outspoken. Probably it is just a gap in coverage.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

Is a possible reason, he has been fairly outspoken. Probably it is just a gap in coverage.

 

That's my point, we seem to making assumptions. And that is not helpful if you want to base your argument on facts which I assume we all want to do?

[Malcador]

Not entirely unbelievable, you kind aren't above high school nonsense like that.

[BruceVC]

Not entirely unbelievable, you kind aren't above high school nonsense like that.

 

True, but it wouldn't be childish. If I was in charge of a website like RPS and I really had an issue with someone I probably wouldn't post anything about there games. But it would have to be an issue around something serious, like if the company was homophobic. Its optional what content these websites post

[Monte Carlo]

 

Not entirely unbelievable, you kind aren't above high school nonsense like that.

 

But it would have to be an issue around something serious, like if the company was homophobic.

 

 

I agree websites should cover whatever the hell they like. OTOH the point above seems to me to be the root of the problem in this entire debate - what do you consider to be 'homophobic?'

 

I'm socially liberal and dislike bigotry. However, I suspect your idea of what constitutes bigotry and mine might be rather different. SJWs and the like use allegations of bigotry, 'isms' and phobias to shut down debate and determine the terms of reference in their favour.

 

So I don't accept their rules much of the time because they are deliberately tactical. OTOH they will just allege the 'ism' du jour. As in, "I'm not even engaging with him... he's a SEXIST!" And so on.

[Orogun01]

 

Not entirely unbelievable, you kind aren't above high school nonsense like that.

 

True, but it wouldn't be childish. If I was in charge of a website like RPS and I really had an issue with someone I probably wouldn't post anything about there games. But it would have to be an issue around something serious, like if the company was homophobic. Its optional what content these websites post

 

Which is why a public outing of their politics is necessary otherwise you might think that they give review scores based on actual quality not on political views.

[Malcador]

 

Not entirely unbelievable, you kind aren't above high school nonsense like that.

 

True, but it wouldn't be childish. If I was in charge of a website like RPS and I really had an issue with someone I probably wouldn't post anything about there games. But it would have to be an issue around something serious, like if the company was homophobic. Its optional what content these websites post

 

Indeed, it's like a sponsor deciding to stop paying.

[Ganrich]

I guess we don't really want objective media then? I could easily say that if I ran a media outlet I would cover games by a developer that has political views that I disagree with. Daniel Vavra has said nothing mysoginistic, but only sided with gamergate because of the narrative and censoring of discussion. The developer's politics should have no bearing. A complete left wing democrat can create a wonderful game, as can a staunch conservative, a dictator, an anarchist, etc.

 

It "is" childish to stop someone from getting press because you disagree with them on a personal level but have no issue with the game they are working on. How can anyone say they want objective news when we let the media cherry pick based on political ideology that has no bearing on the game? That is a road to "That guy is a moderate conservative so we don't have to cover his game." "That girl disagreed with that article I wrote so I am not going to cover her." "That person is religious and I think they are loony so I am going to avoid an article about their title." This is why writers are supposed to detach themselves as best as humanly possible in the journalism field. You cannot do it 100%, but when you don't cover news because of your beliefs you aren't even trying.

 

Is it possible this is just a delay? Sure, but in other trailer releases and Alpha announcements of Kickstarter success stories I don't remember 4ish day delays on these kinds of announcements. hey, but I could be wrong here. Still seems fishy to me. Torment tides of numenera released their trailer on Sept 17th, and Kotaku had an article that day and while RPS and Gamasutra had one within 24 hours. So, I have trouble swallowing the "maybe it is a delay" belief. I would love to be wrong and to see more articles pop up about Kingdom Come's trailer and alpha though.

[Ganrich]

Rumor is Nvidia is talking about following intel's example and pulling ad support. I think specifically they said they were pulling support from Kotaku, but that is second hand. This was said in a KiA stream by an Nvidia employee I believe. Trying to find the stream. Take this with a gigantopithecus sized grain of salt.