Tigranes Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Screw Creative Assembly. They make the same game again and again but break different combinations of things each time, and these days, progressively break more. Remarkable ineptness, given that if they just made exactly the same game and made slight improvements each time they would be in charge of one of the best franchises out there. Well, yes, they continue to reuse a particular formula, but it's a formula that is rather awesome and worth repeating. I know their games are less than perfect, particularly at release. But how long has Rome II been out, and it is still regularly being patched and improved. The other day I just got something called Rome 2 emperor edition downloaded for free. I've had my frustrations with CA as well, but unless or until someone can do it as well or better than them, they are going to continue to get my money. I've played every Total War title since the original Rome, and I cherish each and every one of them. Exactly, it's an awesome formula that no other game is able to compete with. So all they have to do is keep making the same game with minor improvements. Instead, you had entirely braindead AI which is willing to sit outside your gates and get bombarded, randomly break their own line, walk into concentrated fire, etc. (MTW2, Empire, Rome 2); a diplomacy screen which might as well not exist since MTW2 and arguably before; increasingly mod-unfriendly game code sucking the life out of a vibrant mod sector which was willing to go to unimaginable lengths to fix their mistakes; and more. I complained but still bought each time, too, until I realised that I had magnitudes more fun with older iterations, which I could still play at any time, and half the time spent playing the new ones was time spent pretending it is a better and not worse game. 1 Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Well that was my stance not theirs, but hopefully they have superb standards for the "fun" rather than them just being inept. I suppose the project dying after being rebooted is cause for concern. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Post Apoc rogue-like in Kickstarter; looks cool! [spotted by Hexer]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/skyshinegames/bedlam Edited September 25, 2014 by Gizmo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marceror Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Screw Creative Assembly. They make the same game again and again but break different combinations of things each time, and these days, progressively break more. Remarkable ineptness, given that if they just made exactly the same game and made slight improvements each time they would be in charge of one of the best franchises out there. Well, yes, they continue to reuse a particular formula, but it's a formula that is rather awesome and worth repeating. I know their games are less than perfect, particularly at release. But how long has Rome II been out, and it is still regularly being patched and improved. The other day I just got something called Rome 2 emperor edition downloaded for free. I've had my frustrations with CA as well, but unless or until someone can do it as well or better than them, they are going to continue to get my money. I've played every Total War title since the original Rome, and I cherish each and every one of them. Exactly, it's an awesome formula that no other game is able to compete with. So all they have to do is keep making the same game with minor improvements. Instead, you had entirely braindead AI which is willing to sit outside your gates and get bombarded, randomly break their own line, walk into concentrated fire, etc. (MTW2, Empire, Rome 2); a diplomacy screen which might as well not exist since MTW2 and arguably before; increasingly mod-unfriendly game code sucking the life out of a vibrant mod sector which was willing to go to unimaginable lengths to fix their mistakes; and more. I complained but still bought each time, too, until I realised that I had magnitudes more fun with older iterations, which I could still play at any time, and half the time spent playing the new ones was time spent pretending it is a better and not worse game. I don't disagree. But I know that the situation is more complicated than it appears on the surface. A lot of it boils down to the environments becoming a lot more complex. If you look at settlements in Medieval 2, they are all flat. In Rome 2 they are anything but. So the path finding that required for the AI to get siege towers and ladders to the wall properly is miles more complicated than it was in M2. And this problem caused other game mechanics, like AI to break. This was buggy as he'll at release, but on the one hand I'm happy to see them continuing to push the bar. And happy to see that CA continues to support and improve their games over time. Maybe waiting 6 months to a year after release is the smartest move. And yes, these far more complicated maps make modding a lot more complicated. It's unfortunate, but understandable in certain respects. "Now to find a home for my other staff."My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 (edited) Oops. Edited September 25, 2014 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Screw Creative Assembly. They make the same game again and again but break different combinations of things each time, and these days, progressively break more. Remarkable ineptness, given that if they just made exactly the same game and made slight improvements each time they would be in charge of one of the best franchises out there. Well, yes, they continue to reuse a particular formula, but it's a formula that is rather awesome and worth repeating. I know their games are less than perfect, particularly at release. But how long has Rome II been out, and it is still regularly being patched and improved. The other day I just got something called Rome 2 emperor edition downloaded for free. I've had my frustrations with CA as well, but unless or until someone can do it as well or better than them, they are going to continue to get my money. I've played every Total War title since the original Rome, and I cherish each and every one of them. Exactly, it's an awesome formula that no other game is able to compete with. So all they have to do is keep making the same game with minor improvements. Instead, you had entirely braindead AI which is willing to sit outside your gates and get bombarded, randomly break their own line, walk into concentrated fire, etc. (MTW2, Empire, Rome 2); a diplomacy screen which might as well not exist since MTW2 and arguably before; increasingly mod-unfriendly game code sucking the life out of a vibrant mod sector which was willing to go to unimaginable lengths to fix their mistakes; and more. I complained but still bought each time, too, until I realised that I had magnitudes more fun with older iterations, which I could still play at any time, and half the time spent playing the new ones was time spent pretending it is a better and not worse game. I don't disagree. But I know that the situation is more complicated than it appears on the surface. A lot of it boils down to the environments becoming a lot more complex. If you look at settlements in Medieval 2, they are all flat. In Rome 2 they are anything but. So the path finding that required for the AI to get siege towers and ladders to the wall properly is miles more complicated than it was in M2. And this problem caused other game mechanics, like AI to break. This was buggy as he'll at release, but on the one hand I'm happy to see them continuing to push the bar. And happy to see that CA continues to support and improve their games over time. Maybe waiting 6 months to a year after release is the smartest move. And yes, these far more complicated maps make modding a lot more complicated. It's unfortunate, but understandable in certain respects. Sure, the game they are making is an immensely complicated one, and I'm always one for forgiving lack of polish, bugs, etc. when you attempt something ambitious. (Hard to be an Obsidian fanboy otherwise.) The problem is that (1) the same problems recur in not just one or two, but three, four, five iterations of the series; (2) those same problems are exacerbated by the improvements they choose to focus on; (3) a lot of what they choose as 'improvements' does not actually fix/improve the core gameplay but adds even more sprawling fluff - e.g. Hollywood 'finishing moves' from individual soldiers in Rome 2. One might even conclude that their problem is precisely that they are not even being ambitious. They do not seek to improve, fix or overhaul the core mechanics, but keep everything broken that is 5+ years old then tack on even more stuff. Kudos to them for patching Rome 2 for months and months, but you can't patch those kinds of problems that are at the core of how CA approach the series' development. Anyway, I too would like nothing better than a good Total War game, so we will see how it goes with the Attila business. Shogun 2 was pretty good, and CA tend to do better when they aren't trying to simulate half of the known world (Barbarian Invasions, etc). Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 "Post Apoc rogue-like in Kickstarter; looks cool! [spotted by Hexer]" Has potential depending on character system. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marceror Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Sure, the game they are making is an immensely complicated one, and I'm always one for forgiving lack of polish, bugs, etc. when you attempt something ambitious. (Hard to be an Obsidian fanboy otherwise.) The problem is that (1) the same problems recur in not just one or two, but three, four, five iterations of the series; (2) those same problems are exacerbated by the improvements they choose to focus on; (3) a lot of what they choose as 'improvements' does not actually fix/improve the core gameplay but adds even more sprawling fluff - e.g. Hollywood 'finishing moves' from individual soldiers in Rome 2. One might even conclude that their problem is precisely that they are not even being ambitious. They do not seek to improve, fix or overhaul the core mechanics, but keep everything broken that is 5+ years old then tack on even more stuff. Kudos to them for patching Rome 2 for months and months, but you can't patch those kinds of problems that are at the core of how CA approach the series' development. Anyway, I too would like nothing better than a good Total War game, so we will see how it goes with the Attila business. Shogun 2 was pretty good, and CA tend to do better when they aren't trying to simulate half of the known world (Barbarian Invasions, etc). I agree that Shogun 2 was excellent, and surprisingly stable. I also loved RotS, and feel that FotS was the best campaign of the 3. Really, Fall of the Samurai just hit all the right notes with me. I think a primary reason for that title being so solid is the limited scope of that game... it's also one of the things that draws a lot of criticism. But I feel that CA often tries to take on too much with their games, and the games suffer because of it. Well, after a year of patching they may get *close* to the expected level of quality - and then you've got something pretty great - but the process of getting there can be very painful for the fans. "Now to find a home for my other staff."My Project Eternity Interview with Adam Brennecke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 CA should just go back to making Australian Rules football games. They made AFL 98 and 99. L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Tom Chick, curator of the Quarter to Three site and, more notoriously, divisive and contrarian game critic, has Stage IV hypopharyngeal cancer. Though his doctor has given his treatment regiment an 80% chance for a cure, we all know those aren't odds to toy with, and regardless he's going to be out of commission for a while. That said, there's a Fundgate fundraiser for hm to "kick cancer right in the balls and be back podcasting on Quarter to Three soon." It had reached its $10,000 goal in 118 minutes. http://www.gofundme.com/excvko A lot of people might have their beefs with him, but I will say that his words are the most enjoyable pieces of games writing to me even though I disagree with at least half of what he says, and I can't say that about any other writer out there whether they write about games, music, or movies. Edited September 26, 2014 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) Lookin great. Edited September 26, 2014 by HoonDing The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Lookin' unreleased. And, stealing others' work. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Sign up for a GreeManGaming account and you'll get a 25% off coupon on almost everything on the site. Used it to take $10 off of my purchase of Wasteland 2. Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Sign up for a GreeManGaming account and you'll get a 25% off coupon on almost everything on the site. Used it to take $10 off of my purchase of Wasteland 2. Do you have any Cialis to go with that? 1 You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Shadow of Mordor is getting lit up all over the place. 9.5 Polygon, 8.25 Game Informer, 9.3 IGN, 9/10 Shacknews, 84 Metacritic. Looks like Tuesday will be a day-off. 1 All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordicus Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) Shadow of Mordor is getting lit up all over the place. 9.5 Polygon, 8.25 Game Informer, 9.3 IGN, 9/10 Shacknews, 84 Metacritic. Looks like Tuesday will be a day-off. It's nice that once in a while, there still can be a AAA game that can be praised for its actually innovative systems PC World review highlight: "Hoshu of the Spiders." The name rolls off my tongue with all the hatred I can muster. I've been playing Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor for fifteen hours already, and here comes good ol' Hoshu, waltzing back into my life like that guy everybody hates at the birthday party, covered in scars from our previous encounters. The two of us have done battle five or ten times over the course of the last ten hours. When first we met he was a mere shrimp of an Uruk captain—a scrawny little thing with a metal cage around his head, like a bear trap, who shot poisonous crossbow arrows at me. He killed me that first battle out of luck more than anything else, shooting me in the back as I fought another captain. And he climbed the ranks. And climbed and climbed. I've killed him. He's come back from the grave. I've killed him more times. He's come back again and again, each time with a snarl and a taunt, like "You thought you killed me, huh?" Yes, Hoshu, I did. I stabbed a sword through your spine and left you bleeding on the battlefield. He doesn't even have that metal cage anymore. It was torn from his face, leaving oozing scar tissue across his eyes. He just. Won't. Quit. Edited September 27, 2014 by Nordicus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Ahh, romance by the fireplace. Good to see BW influence spreading, among other things. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOK222 Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Don't you also get an Orc companion? Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 "The two of us have done battle five or ten times over the course of the last ten hours. When first we met he was a mere shrimp of an Uruk captain—a scrawny little thing with a metal cage around his head, like a bear trap, who shot poisonous crossbow arrows at me. He killed me that first battle out of luck more than anything else, shooting me in the back as I fought another captain. And he climbed the ranks. And climbed and climbed. I've killed him. He's come back from the grave. I've killed him more times. He's come back again and again, each time with a snarl and a taunt, like "You thought you killed me, huh?" L0L 'innovative' L0L DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 (edited) "The two of us have done battle five or ten times over the course of the last ten hours. When first we met he was a mere shrimp of an Uruk captain—a scrawny little thing with a metal cage around his head, like a bear trap, who shot poisonous crossbow arrows at me. He killed me that first battle out of luck more than anything else, shooting me in the back as I fought another captain. And he climbed the ranks. And climbed and climbed. I've killed him. He's come back from the grave. I've killed him more times. He's come back again and again, each time with a snarl and a taunt, like "You thought you killed me, huh?" L0L 'innovative' L0L Reminds me of Edited September 27, 2014 by HoonDing 1 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManifestedISO Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 PC World review Clearly they don't play video games very much. To wit: Combat, especially, is the same "Just hit the attack button forever and ever while one or two orcs swing at you, amen" style as the Arkham games. Whereas GI states: Combat carries a visceral punch, and is perversely satisfying with its brutal decapitations and revenge-fueled executions. Rhythmic inputs allow for a surprising array of moves, and button mashing is a sure recipe for failure. Mastering the system demands attention to all your enemies, changing up your maneuvers, and recognizing moments for a strategic retreat. All Stop. On Screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undecaf Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Or could it be that GI are so bad at playing that they can't handle a rudimentary button mashing (that PC World reviewer can) and think the combat is actually more that it really is? Perkele, tiädäksää tuanoini!"It's easier to tolerate idiots if you do not consider them as stupid people, but exceptionally gifted monkeys." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSBasilisk Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 So, you know the stories about fans making games for defunct consoles? One of them, the RPG Pier Solar for the Mega Drive, is being ported to the PC. Yeah, I'm impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaeliorin Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Or could it be that GI are so bad at playing that they can't handle a rudimentary button mashing (that PC World reviewer can) and think the combat is actually more that it really is? It's certainly possible. I always hear people talking about how awesome the combat in the Arkham games is, but in my experience (which is limited to the first), it literally was just mashing the attack button. Sure, there were other things you could do, but you never actually needed to do them, so they were kind of pointless. Honestly, it's one of the reasons, despite thinking Shadows of Mordor looks kind of interesting, I'm going to wait for the eventual "game plus all DLC" bundle to hit a Steam sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipsen Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Wouldn't exactly be the first time, in all of history, that a review magazine literally quotes the sales-rep. This kind of stuff also happens after the reviews have been turned in. They're "staff pieces" with "contributions". And the final product just had a sentence changed from "the combat is unimpressive but with small twists that... blabla", and into "if you squint your eyes, the combat is varied, interesting and graceful, just like the advertisement says". And you're not going to complain about your own review turning out like that. On the pain of lawsuit, loss of future commissions, and a bad rep generally, etc. The injustice must end! Sign the petition and Free the Krug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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