Hugo Chavez dead

[Walsingham]

"Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great
man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez."

 

Guardian readers pay tribute to man who would have banned The Guardian

[BruceVC]

"Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great

man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez."

 

Guardian readers pay tribute to man who would have banned The Guardian

 

I have been following this story. Hugo Chavez was a bit of a mixed bag from a good leadership perspective. There was no doubt he did a lot of good  to uplift the poor people in his country and ensure the middle class got a good deal.

 

But he was vociferously anti-western and didn't allow any fair political contestation in his country. He controlled the press and what his citizens really knew about the state of the Venezuelan conomy. He had no issues with aligning imself with anyone opposed to Western countries like North Korea.  

 

But he definitely had an entertaining and flamboyant personality. Who remembers the one time at the UN when he accused George Bush of being the Devil and leaving behind the smell of sulfur ( it was embarrasing but funny the way he said it)

[Rosbjerg]

I'm all for democracy, but sometimes corruption is so ingrained in a country that you need something akin to a benevolent dictator to take you out of it. I have no idea what Chavez was, I only know he at least seemed to take the best interest of his people very seriously, which is something I can respect.

[Hurlshort]

Chavez was a very complex character, but this is definitely a difficult loss for Venezuela.  My biggest concern is did he create a system that can last, or will it fall into corruption?  Chavez put the interests of his people first, but will the next leader do that?  I hope so.

[Orogun01]

I know a few Venezuelans that will be happy he died, I'll be sure to congratulate them next time I see them.

[HoonDing]

He must be feeling hot right now.

[Malcador]

I know a few Venezuelans that will be happy he died, I'll be sure to congratulate them next time I see them.

Why ? Did they kill him ?

 

Agree on him being a mixed bag, at least from the outside.

[Meshugger]

As a member of amnesty, i can tell he was no friend of free speech. 

 

People on the left seems to hail him for his social programs, but at the same time they seem to forget that it does not necessarily mean more freedom. 

[JFSOCC]

Because he was so unpopular with western governments, I don't know whether my image of him is correct. He seemed a passionate man who believed what he was doing was the right way to go. He also seemed a bit paranoid. But then, going against the grain in geo-politics may qualify paranoia as wise, rather than crazy.

I do know that the news article I read about his demise in the Dutch paper was a carefully crated and very subtle character assassination. I doubt we'll ever get the full true picture here in the west.

[rjshae]

To me he's another in a long line of Venezuelan despots. I know he was a champion of the poor, but power, even with the best of intentions, needs to be carefully restrained. As usual, his implementation of dogmatic socialism has screwed up another economy.

[Valsuelm]

 

"Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great

man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez."

 

Guardian readers pay tribute to man who would have banned The Guardian

 

I have been following this story. Hugo Chavez was a bit of a mixed bag from a good leadership perspective. There was no doubt he did a lot of good  to uplift the poor people in his country and ensure the middle class got a good deal.

 

But he was vociferously anti-western and didn't allow any fair political contestation in his country. He controlled the press and what his citizens really knew about the state of the Venezuelan conomy. He had no issues with aligning imself with anyone opposed to Western countries like North Korea.  

 

But he definitely had an entertaining and flamboyant personality. Who remembers the one time at the UN when he accused George Bush of being the Devil and leaving behind the smell of sulfur ( it was embarrasing but funny the way he said it)

 

His war on some of the press was the result of the failed US sponsored coup in 2002. The press he's reported to have suppressed in most of the western media was bought and paid for propaganda by those who are pro foreign (especially US corporate) interests, and much of the upper class elite in Venezuela that benefits from the foreign oil interests there at the expense of most of the rest of the people of that nation.

 

I recommend watching the documentary 'This Revolution Will Not Be Televised'. The raw footage of the puppet government that was put in place for a little while during the coup, and the footage of the 'free' (foreign owned) press that backed that coup speaks volumes.

[BruceVC]

 

 

"Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and Gerry Adams all said he was a great

man, which is pretty much all you need to know about Hugo Chavez."

 

Guardian readers pay tribute to man who would have banned The Guardian

 

I have been following this story. Hugo Chavez was a bit of a mixed bag from a good leadership perspective. There was no doubt he did a lot of good  to uplift the poor people in his country and ensure the middle class got a good deal.

 

But he was vociferously anti-western and didn't allow any fair political contestation in his country. He controlled the press and what his citizens really knew about the state of the Venezuelan conomy. He had no issues with aligning imself with anyone opposed to Western countries like North Korea.  

 

But he definitely had an entertaining and flamboyant personality. Who remembers the one time at the UN when he accused George Bush of being the Devil and leaving behind the smell of sulfur ( it was embarrasing but funny the way he said it)

 

 

I recommend watching the documentary 'This Revolution Will Not Be Televised'. The raw footage of the puppet government that was put in place for a little while during the coup, and the footage of the 'free' (foreign owned) press that backed that coup speaks volumes.

Okay I'll watch it, I always like to see a different perspective.

[Agiel]

First read the news that Chavez bought it in Le Monde. Checked the comments section and it does give you a sense that the wide spectrum of attitudes towards the man also permeates the rest of the Western world. There are comments that "the world has lost a great socialist" as well as ones that compare him to Mao and Stalin.

[Hurlshort]

Chavez was no saint, but comparing him to Mao or Stalin is ludicrous.  

[Zoraptor]

Chavez was a magnificent troll, and he targeted people who absolutely deserved to be trolled harder than diamond- Goat W Bush, the sort of people who would call him Stalin or Mao etc, and his best troll was waiting until the US said they supported the 2002 coup before jack-in-the-boxing out of the presidential palace with his paratroopers. He wasn't exactly Gandhi and would have been better to temper some of his reforms with a bit more reality and a bit less hyperbole, but he did a lot for the poorer sections of the population than previous governments had done. As for press freedom, the ain't many places in SA that don't have problems, you just don't tend to hear much about them when it's the pro western governments doing the repressing (see Honduras 2009+)

[HoonDing]

He was the Latin-American Mugabe. Quite similar to Idi Amin too, with his militaristic shtick and absurd opinions, but he lacked Amin's exorbitant brutality.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Drudanae

[Tsuga C]

May he and all his ilk rot in Hell.  His "reforms" hurt the very people he allegedly championed while he purloined roughly the equivalent of two billion USD--thieving, socialist-minded douchebag.

 

Very fine clip about Chavez.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Guard Dog]

As a member of amnesty, i can tell he was no friend of free speech. 

 

People on the left seems to hail him for his social programs, but at the same time they seem to forget that it does not necessarily mean more freedom. 

Freedom is not something the left values highly these days. Generally speaking at least. I would not compare Chavez to Stalin or Hitler unless there are thousands of unmarked graves in Venezuela we don't know about. But the world is a better place without him than with him. Her's hoping the future is brighter than the past for Venezuela. But it won't be.

[Orogun01]

God, I hope people won't start making excuses for Castro when he dies. Saying that he wasn't that bad, or comparing him to some benevolent dictator, that would rub me the wrong way. Seems this thread has forgotten that the man was a dictator.

[Guard Dog]

Yeah i WOULD compare Castro to Stalin & Hitler. And I bet it would rub you the wrong way. You have a unique persepective on him and Cuba in general as far as this board goes,

[Zoraptor]

May he and all his ilk rot in Hell.  His "reforms" hurt the very people he allegedly championed while he purloined roughly the equivalent of two billion USD--thieving, socialist-minded douchebag.

 

Very fine clip about Chavez.

Hahaha Oh WOW.

 

Rush Limbaugh and Charlie Krauthammer?

[Valsuelm]

Yeah i WOULD compare Castro to Stalin & Hitler. And I bet it would rub you the wrong way. You have a unique persepective on him and Cuba in general as far as this board goes,

 

 

You can compare anyone to anyone, or anything to anything. While there are similarities between the three, as there are between those three and a great many other leaders throughout history, Chavez didn't go on about what Stalin is most infamous for: that being staging an organized mass scale murder of citizens of his nation, and Hitler and Stalin may be similar in that they are both fruits, but they were as different as lemons and cherries.

 

Anyone who thinks Chavez is akin to Hitler, Stalin, or Mao is incredibly mistaken, naive, ignorant, and thoroughly brainwashed.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Valsuelm

[Gorgon]

It's easy to forget that all the power grabs Chaves did, wrong as they were, originated in a right wing coup attempt that would have left the country no better off. Having the presidents residence under siege tends to leave one paranoid. Castro either deported or imprisoned his enemies, does not in any way compare to two of history's greatest mass murderers.  He also successfully created an infrastructure which remains today and which the Cuban people are quite proud of, even if they don't enjoy our political fredoms.

[AGX-17]

He must be feeling hot right now.

Yeah, God is a Randian Capitalist, that's why Jesus said that only a rich man can get into heaven through the eye of a needle and to hoard as much material wealth as possible and spit on lepers and the poor.

 

 

"It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

It's easy to forget that all the power grabs Chaves did, wrong as they were, originated in a right wing coup attempt that would have left the country no better off. Having the presidents residence under siege tends to leave one paranoid. Castro either deported or imprisoned his enemies, does not in any way compare to two of history's greatest mass murderers.  He also successfully created an infrastructure which remains today and which the Cuban people are quite proud of, even if they don't enjoy our political fredoms.

Chavez was also consistently elected in internationally monitored/recognized elections considered free and fair by those international standards. Yes, he was a demagogue, but he actually did do a great deal to improve the lives of the poor in Venezuela, and that's why he so consistently got elected. The brief right-wing coup that lasted a matter of days did nothing but bolster support for Chavez. The capitalist/right wing faction is a decidedly small minority in the country.

 

And one can hardly accuse him of creating an authoritarian dictatorship or something along those lines as crime is rampant in Venezuela, one interviewee on a BBC World Service report on the subject of his death mentioned that he (the interviewee) had to move his elderly father (an ardent Chavismo supporter,) to Colombia where it's safer than Caracas, Venezuela.

Edited March 7, 2013 by AGX-17

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Rush Limbaugh and Charlie Krauthammer?

I think I just lost 10 Intelligence.

 

"It's easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

 

But ya see, that part of ta bible just ain't true. Now, we Superchristian Conservatives take other parts of what we believe is God's word as literal fact, but there was a manual left for us so we know what parts to ignore. It was given to Thomas Jefferson when God came down and wrote the US Constitution. Edited March 7, 2013 by KaineParker