What's Everyone Looking For In Strongholds?

[rjshae]

I'm still not entirely clear on what a "stronghold" actually is. It's not merely a house obviously. So presumably it is more than just a place to sleep to avoid the overpriced city inns.

 

If the idea is to introduce another sort of game mechanic then how about making some kind of RTS? Although I haven't played many RTS games the idea of building towns and gathering armies to battle against other towns could be interesting. Especially once you've finished the main story.

 

In the old AD&D days, it used to mean that you have a land and title. The stronghold was used to project that land, and you would receive levies from the peasants.

[light487]

I'd like to be able to have a little shop (or multiple shops) that I can run and manage.

 

Not sure how many people have played a little JRPG called "Recettear: An Item Shop's Tale".. but the basic idea of it is that you own a little shop that adventurers and other people come in and buy things from you. You have to lay out the items yourself, set the prices and sell them. Occasionally people will come and ask you to get certain items for them and so on. How you get the items is by visiting different places to buy merchandise in bulk to get discounts, crafting specialised stuff and going to dungeons to find loot that can then be sold. Putting this kind of thing into the game would extend the game and make having these real estate assets much more purposeful than just having something nice to look at. It would give people a reason to go out and hunt for loot after the main story is finished.. and give people soemthing to do with all the "junk" they've collected through the game and beyond. It would also extend the usefulness of the crafting in the game. You could have multiple shops (weapons, armor, general items etc) just like in a regular town.. all managed and stocked by you, the player.

 

That's the kind of thing I'd like to see done with the stronghold..

[rjshae]

I like your icon pic, light487.

 

If it's anything like the Crossroads Keep in the NWN2 OC, then you'll be able to add things like shops, temple, wizard's tower and an inn to your stronghold. Or maybe there will be a quaint little village below your stronghold that you can help develop? Personally I'd just be happy with a road-side inn along a busy trade route. Hire a couple of serving wenches and a grumpy dwarven cook, then start a wine cellar.

Edited October 19, 2012 by rjshae

[oldmanpaco]

Maybe it'll be like in Shadows of Amn where you get a different base depending on your class and solve quests related to your stronghold.

 

I think having class specific strongholds or a stronghold quest line that was class specific is key. I loved the stronghold quests in BG2 but the CRK stronghold in NWN2 felt like work. It was way to generic because was designed for all classes.

 

The other option would be to have the stronghold associated with the 2md large city. Maybe a quest-line that makes you the lord or governor or whatever. Of course this could have the problem of degenerating into something like the NWN2 stronghold.

[wbn]

Up until now I just saw it as a place to store all the hookers I meet in my travels, but you lot write some pretty considerate things.

[light487]

I like your icon pic, light487.

 

Thanks.. that's "Lucky".. my Peachfaced Lovebird (parrot).. he doesn't look like that now because his feathers malted after a few months (as they do naturally) and now his head is all red in colour This is a picture of him a few days before we took him home from the breeder

[scipioafricanus]

Great ideas here, clearly having 10 different strongholds isn't possible for Obsidian to do. I think one stronghold done well, with a whole load of quests/sise-quests associated with it would be great. I really liked the OP'S original ideas, that to build it up you have to do quests, clear the quarry, destroy the bandits, influence the locals, etc. And of course, it has to be optional, if you don't wanna have a stronhold then fine.

[Pope]

First and foremost, I want my stronghold to play differently each playthrough. I don't need different strongholds for each class like BG2 offered, but I would like to be able to customize the stronghold according to my class. Some suggestions: If I'm playing a fighter I want to add a blacksmith that can improve my equipment. If I'm playing a wizard a want to add a library to upgrade my spells. Stuff like that. I might even want to add a library when playing a fighter to upgrade my companions' spells. But I should not be able to add all available upgrades at once. I want to feel like replaying the game to build an entirely different stronghold.

 

The stronghold should also come with quite some sidequests, some of these also depending on your class (or better: on the upgrades you chose to build). The outcome of these quests should have an effect on the main storyline. In the same lines NWN2 allowed you to spend money on your army, but it should go further than this. The outcomes of your decisions regarding the stronghold quests should not be crystal clear and seemingly easy decisions should have hidden catches later on.

 

My last request might be a bit trickier, but have the stronghold be optional. Some of my characters might not be interested in the hassle of managing all this stuff and prefer to just go out and adventure.

[Starwars]

I'm hoping it will not be a part of the main narrative. Don't get me wrong, I liked Crossroad Keep (one of the best things about NWN2 actually) but I would greatly prefer it if the stronghold was an optional thing, not something the plot will evolve around. And that, yes, you certainly get to be in a powerful position, lording over a keep (or whatever the case may be) but that that doesn't elevate your status to "celebrity of the world".

 

I would enjoy it if it was slightly less epic, and more of a struggle to provide for the few followers you may have around the place.

 

I also don't care that much for the actual building process so I'd be happy if we just take over a place somewhere and then have it be more about the... managing so to speak (obviously some building may be involved in that).

[Pope]

Ooh, and I want to add a tavern and get drunk and pass out.

 

edit: Ooooh, and sell booze in said tavern and seeing people get drunk and pass out and making money on people getting drunk and passing out.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pope

[Vandoon]

love the idea of a PC owned location. I have avoided using the term fortress as others have stated it brings images of large castles etc.

 

I would like to see the options for these structures to be very flexible. It should allow the PC to acquire any number of locations. These may range from small blocks of land/ forest/ underground areas to large tracts of land with inhabitants. The method of acquisition can range from stealing deeds / squatting / running off bandits / being gifted for heroic acts / extorting nobles – owners- commoners/ purchasing from the establishment.

 

The land should come with various responsibilities – cost to maintain / duty to the inhabitants to protect the area / patrol the roads / taxes to other lords / official engagements / forces alliances / forces marriages.

These responsibilities can be ignored at a cost - building run down / buildings get overtaken be hostiles / other lords move in / armies attack if alliances not kept and lords slighted / wild animals infest in the rural areas.

 

The type of buildings constructed should be completely free choice and a great sink for PC revenue. However the upgrades can also be an income for the PC. Buy an inn or a shop run a business. The NPCs hired or trained can improve the value. Given the opportunity for many different locals the PC could in theory buy a number of them however they would be unable to fully improve all but could get a number of small benefits from each (unless they just continued playing after the main quest )

Types to be suggested. Temples, barracks, libraries, mazes, amphitheatres, groves, gardens kitchens, inns, trading shops, alchemical workshops, schools, mines, grand halls, basically anything you can think of. This could the handled by supplying unnamed structures that are populated by the PC in the style they choose.

All these should interact with the environment. You have trained soldiers that patrol roads and as others have stated can be kind or cruel. If the PC does not keep tabs on the way things are run they guards and become corrupted and stand over the locals or slack and not collect taxes.

This relies on the world having a live economy you may run a trading business however the goods still need to be sold. Become an arms merchants and start a war or too to drum up sales.

 

Sorry these are all a jumble of ideas spewing forth and should be organised however I think you get the basics

Completely customisable

Multiple locations

Multiple types

React to environment

Able to be enhanced

Possibility of incomes / businesses

Populated with selectable NPCs

Train NPCs

Responsibilities

A need to continually monitor / manage

Different methods of acquisition

 

 

Anyhow some food for thought.

[Pope]

Looks like the majority here would like to be able to add modules such as a library etc, which is certainly nice to see, but there might be a problem here.

 

Since PE will be based on painted backgrounds, rather than a 3D engine, imagine all the variations of the same background needed to cater to all possible combinations of added modules.

[ComMcNeil]

Looks like the majority here would like to be able to add modules such as a library etc, which is certainly nice to see, but there might be a problem here.

 

Since PE will be based on painted backgrounds, rather than a 3D engine, imagine all the variations of the same background needed to cater to all possible combinations of added modules.

 

If all of these things are seperate rooms, it could be relatively easy to get the art for this, either a room is empty (or inaccessable even) or the room has bookshelves in it...

 

@topic: I would also like to see basically Stronghold (so, base of some kind) which can be upgraded in whatever form through quests, but ONLY quests (or objectives, missions whatever). What I dont want to see is upgrading based off of money, like in skyrim for example - its just boring, too simple and somewhat lazy...

[Oerwinde]

Looks like the majority here would like to be able to add modules such as a library etc, which is certainly nice to see, but there might be a problem here.

 

Since PE will be based on painted backgrounds, rather than a 3D engine, imagine all the variations of the same background needed to cater to all possible combinations of added modules.

 

It shouldn't be much harder than in 3D. Its essentially the same process. In 3D they still have to have separate levels for each combination. Heck, it might even be easier in 2d depending on the renderer. If they can render layers then they just have to create layers for each module, and lay them over the base map.

[Demobinkibinki]

I would like to...

 

1. Be able to invest in building and raising the tier level of shops to acquire better items.

Armor, Weapons, Tradeskill Items, Alchemist (Potions/Gunpowder),

and storage items like BACKPACKS and CHESTS.

I hate running out of storage space.

 

2. Be able to set a tax rate to collect income but it would also set a tone for the stronghold

affecting the types of quests and the type of NPC / vendor recruitment.

 

3. Be able to set a Justice level.

It would also affect the tone, and income tax, morale, crime, and quests.

 

4. Recruit officers and give them directions on how to act in my absence.

 

5. Have the ability to hire a spy/recruitment officer to:

To Recruit Better Companions

To Steal Items of Renown from other towns

To sow unrest in other towns

For quests

To entice vendors to build

To entice higher tier vendors

To entice higher tiered tradeskillers

To gather information

To eliminate an obstacle without resorting to combat

To recruit officers

as a Tax Collector

 

6. To be able to build Aesthetic/Entertainment facilities

To improve morale/tax revenue as well as to open up more quests.

Statue/Obelisk/Fountain/Aqueduct

Church

Park/Garden/Pavillion

Theater/Stage/Puppeteer

Arena/Jousting Field

Gallows

Tavern/Brothel

 

7. To be able to build places that would entice/support NPC/Class Adventurers

To allow them to be recruited as well as to supply items that they would use/need.

 

8. To be able to build resource collecting/processing facilities.

Quarry, Mine-Gem, Mine-Metal, Mine-Precious Metal, Mine-Sulfur,Gunpowder(Bat Guano =P )

[Demobinkibinki]

It might be nice to include some minigames like gambling, brawling , and drinking contests from The Witcher as well.

[twincast]

Really, the only thing I need is meaningful choices in expanding it.

 

So not just better vs. cheaper, but (also) wholly different, yet equally viable options.

 

About a half-dozen "slots" with two to four options each would suffice, but the more the better.

 

Add to that a couple of quest lines and a siege defense and everything's perfect.

[SeekDWay]

NWN2 Keep on steroids

 

It's my favorite part of the OC.

[Gahir]

For me the esthetic/enviromental/lore/quest value is really high. Especially if you look at ways to go with developing such a feature within a city has alot of potential to act as a time sink and go into macro/micro managment.

 

Depending on huw much budget Obisdian is willing to sink into this project you could start out with a manor where you slowly start working towards adding Wooden walls and ramparts and where you start gathering a workforce to improve your building.

 

This can start by aqcuiring the aid of the local woodloggers and artisans trough quests/favors/gold and from there start to expand foward where you act as a feudal lord/regent to the city in charge of providing safety, setting up guilds/housing and starting to add/detract wealth from the city and thus changing how it acts as a community towards you.

 

From there you could imagine that you then pick up the options to expand your reinforced manor with stone trough a quarry and stronger architecture with the aid of Dwarves/Elves/ any other race ( also this works on more then this level but by sending you over the world in available quest zones instead of only questing near your city and allowing more races to help you push expansion towards a fortress)

 

Also to not fall into the trap that is created by Assasins Creed Gameplay where you can buy a shop for a few coins and it becomes a cashcow there would be a proper need to set high costs, gathering supplies and finding artisans to work for you. This also increases the sense of accomplishment a player can gain by completing a helpfull building in his city. And we can be honest that insta buying a shop is not particulary rewarding. To me it should be more staggered/phased where you can see construction works ( Foundation- Supporting walls - Roof - Interior) and then moving forward by completing these minor/major quests and into completion. And as a added bonus these new building could then function as minor quest hubs or trading zones.

 

This also links really well into the crafting aspect which is to be implemented where you just don't suddenly see a blacksmith pop up but where you have to put in some effort ( short quest chain) to build this building.

 

Another trap which is present in many games is that when you finally have a home and upgraded it , it then just sits there. There are no npc's walking around ( which let's face it is abit strange when you hold court in a stronghold) I think that by adding some options to regulate safety within your city ( Captain of the Guard and allowing to spend money to train and deploy the guard or not)

 

The options are near endless but we should not get some random building which can't be altered in any way that maybe add's a few hours of gameplay and some money and that's it. The BG2 keep felt abit lackluster in this aspect ( a great example of expanding your own keep was in the addon of Dragon Age where you had alot more influence in the end result)

Edited October 19, 2012 by Gahir

[Kennyrules]

When I consider everything I'd love to have in a stronghold... I could make my own game. Seriously. A stronghold based game world, which while fun, isn't the point of P:E. So I'll narrow it down to things that are reasonable. The stronghold is supposed to be a side-item. A snack compared to the rest of the game. An upgraded player house, as indicated by the stretch goal descriptions. So I'll go on that assumption.

 

1. Unnecessary: The stronghold should not be required for the main storyline. It should be an optional side-quest. You can give me the stronghold for free, but don't force me to upgrade it or play there. If you do tie it to the main story somehow, don't make upgrades required or even related to success in the part of the main story it is related to.

 

2. Single Location: I'd love to have my choice of locations. Hell, I'd love to have more than one stronghold. But given that this is not a stronghold-focused game, we should limit it to one location and focus energy on the parts of the game (main quest, storyline, big cities 1 and 2) that will require titanic amounts of effort already. Keep it to one location for the sake of less time and effort.

 

3. Respectable Customizations/Upgrades: Want to hang flags on the walls? Cool. Want to mount your enemy's skull on a pike? Also cool. I think for good amounts of money, we should be able to customize things in our stronghold. Also would love to see the stronghold get upgraded. Move from a paliside fence to a stone wall, more floors in the main building, recruit merchants and enhance their selection, etc.

 

4. Stronghold Quests: Quests related to the well being of your stronghold and the surrounding lands. Many of these can be generalized across classes for efficiency's sake. A broken levy, for example, is something each class might handle differently, but each class would still have to handle. Likewise with kobold infestations, robbers, etc. Getting permission from a local lord to improve various aspects of the stronghold (hiring more soldiers, etc) would also make the stronghold feel more interesting and important.

 

5. Recruitable NPCs for the Stronghold: I want to choose from a pool of NPCs to decide who my guard captain will be, who the head servant is, who the chef is, etc. Give each option character strengths and flaws. Same with merchants. I want a stronghold filled with people I chose consciously. It feels more alive when my cook has a name and a backstory!

 

6. SOME class-specific content: I understand a mage wanting a stronghold that isn't entirely based around swords. I also understand that limits on time and finances restrict just how much class-specfiic content can be added. So add some options for upgrading that relate to each class. Example: stronghold is under attack. Have a mage? Enchant your guard's blades to be more effective. Warrior? Train the guard yourself to be more skilled fighters. Paladin? Rile them up into a fanatic frenzy to defend the stronghold. Cipher? Give their minds a boosted reaction time. Same end result - better defended stronghold. Just different ways of achieving that goal, but they make the stronghold more dynamic and fun for each specific class. Same with customization - make some mage staffs and gold piles for the mages and thieves out there. Have a limited number of merchant locations, and have to choose between the magic merchant and the armor merchant, etc, etc. Efficiency is king.

 

 

 

That's still a lot to ask for, yes, but we hit a 3 million stretch goal reward. I don't feel bad asking for a lot. But I also want it to be doable. This, I feel, is a good meeting of the two - a lot to do in the stronghold, but also in a way that is capable of being done fairly quickly with less effort and programming headaches. Bottom line - I trust Obsidian. I know they can make a helluva stronghold for me to play in. I'm just throwing out things I'd like to see in it, while trying to keep myself reasonable so there's a chance they'll actually incorporate some of what I've mentioned.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Kennyrules

[Pope]

It'd be nice if your stronghold could attract merchants with items otherwise unavailable in the game.

 

And, next to acting as a money sink, it should also be able to generate money (as long as these two aspects are well balanced!).

[Raithe]

I have to admit, I'm half imagining an Expansion pack in the future which is purely set around a political storyline based on your stronghold...

 

Ramping up on the potential strategic elements of a stronghold, as well as factional reactions in the surrounding areas, quests that sink more time in diplomacy and non-combat skills...

Although yes, you need some combat to pace out as well, especially for characters that are much more combat focused then others...

[Dangermouth]

I have to admit, I'm half imagining an Expansion pack in the future which is purely set around a political storyline based on your stronghold...

 

Ramping up on the potential strategic elements of a stronghold, as well as factional reactions in the surrounding areas, quests that sink more time in diplomacy and non-combat skills...

Although yes, you need some combat to pace out as well, especially for characters that are much more combat focused then others...

 

 

I had just thought of something similar. Essentially the expansion kicks off/is centred around the stronghold and the need to regain it from enemy forces at least as part of a larger campaign or because you've earned the title of 'x' by developing the stronghold you now have responsibility over region 'y' from a distance which can mean just sending troops or resources until bled dry or getting out there yourself to save the little troopses for your own stronghold and more mundane menaces. That or a big bad beastie lays an egg in your dining room and you have to vacate it for a lil while.

[C2B]

This is a great and interesting thread to read.

[metacontent]

I was really confused by the whole strong hold idea, is it meant to be something like an uber-playerhouse?