The 2.8 mil stretch goal rubs me the wrong way

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I actually found it pretty amusing like he's a teddy bear at a fair or something Hit 2.8 million get a Ziets!

[ImRhoven]

In what way is a single developer worth a million dollars? No, in my opinion you should change that goal to something worthwhile.

 

Actually, $100.000 (5 zeros not 6) isn't that much for 1.5 years worth of pay and expenses.

[Potemkin]

I think it's an awesome goal! MotB is a fantastic game!

[betongborr]

We get an extra senior developer/writer. Who just happens to be good on worldbuilding/creating lore. I see it as a winwin situation for all of us and nice for the obsidian team that can bring back one of their guys.

 

The only downside of it is that this kickstarter doesnt seem to allocate extra resourses for sound and music. A really really important aspect of a game.

[Kai]

In what way is a single developer worth a million dollars? No, in my opinion you should change that goal to something worthwhile.

 

100k-ish, not 1 million dollars.

 

And YES.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If you think it costs $100K to pay someone $100K, you've never run a business.

 

I would estimate the cost of employing someone to be 2.5 times their base salary (not including benefits). So if you pay someone $50K, the total cost to you for employing that person is about $125K. There's infrastructure and insurance and payroll taxes and all sorts of other costs. Frankly, that Zeits only costs $100K tells me that they're only paying him $40K for his work on the project.

[Sordel]

You need also to bear in mind that the devs are painting on the bullseyes after the arrows land. They wanted Ziets, they've had the discussion, they know that the project is going to hit 2.8 million, because Kickstarter projects have an arc and momentum of their own. While stretch goals are incentives to spend money, they are also slightly artificial and a way for the devs to communicate their evolving vision for the game to backers. Don't get too hung up about what comes in at any particular tier.

[Rabain]

If you think it costs $100K to pay someone $100K, you've never run a business.

 

I would estimate the cost of employing someone to be 2.5 times their base salary (not including benefits). So if you pay someone $50K, the total cost to you for employing that person is about $125K. There's infrastructure and insurance and payroll taxes and all sorts of other costs. Frankly, that Zeits only costs $100K tells me that they're only paying him $40K for his work on the project.

 

It is really hard to makeassumptions based on a stretch goal, for all we know the original 1.1million included a contingency for additional resources including hiring extra staff. It was already mentioned that the stretch goal values don't reflect a budget, reaching 2.8 from 2.7 million doesn't mean Ziets costs 100k, it just means at 2.8 Ziets is a go, the 2.7 million goal prior means nothing.

 

I'd agree with Sordel also that the Ziets discussion has already happened and the stretch goal is a formality. You think Ziets is sitting on his hands waiting to see if the KS reaches 2.8 million, turning down other jobs offers etc on the "chance" of working on PE? It is like the mega dungeon, the goals for extra levels are silly facebook Likes and backer numbers, the levels are already planned out, the publicity side is just that, an interesting publicity stunt to get people involved and excited. I don't frown on that by the way, I think it's a good idea but really I believe we will get X levels of the dungeon anyway, whatever they had planned to do.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Rabain

[The Nexus]

Sorry, I read it completely wrong, I don't know how it happened. I read it as 1 mil when in reality it was 100k, like some of you pointed out with unnecessary bruteness.

 

I still think it's a bit peculiar that one developer is a stretch goal though. 100k isn't all that ridiculous for one developer I guess. It's about 8000 USD a month for a year, which is still a lot of money, but not for a veteran designer. It's still a bit weird though, I think.

[ilhdr]

I ask myself if this money couldn't better invested.

[limaxophobiacq]

I ask myself if this money couldn't better invested.

 

Is there someone else you think of who they could get that is more qualified? Because all the money raised is ultimately going to be go towards paying the people who make the game.

Edited October 10, 2012 by limaxophobiacq

[ilhdr]

I ask myself if this money couldn't better invested.

 

Is there someone else you think of who they could get that is more qualified? Because all the money raised is ultimately going to be go towards paying the people who make the game.

 

with this money how many less know but equal talented artists could be paid?

[BasaltineBadger]

I ask myself if this money couldn't better invested.

 

Is there someone else you think of who they could get that is more qualified? Because all the money raised is ultimately going to be go towards paying the people who make the game.

 

with this money how many less know but equal talented artists could be paid?

 

It's not like Ziets is some celebrity who has to be paid for his name, and I don't think you can just replace one writer/designer with another one and expect similar results.

[Tale]

with this money how many less know but equal talented artists could be paid?

1

 

Let's first acknowledge that stretch goals are not a budget. It does not cost $100,000 for any of the specific features. It can cost more or less and that's just kind of the point where they're comfortable including it given all they're doing already.

 

So it's not like they're dropping $100,000 in Ziets lap. There's overhead and other elements/features that are included in the amount. There's no indication Ziets is paid a rockstar's salary.

[Osvir]

Sorry, I read it completely wrong, I don't know how it happened. I read it as 1 mil when in reality it was 100k, like some of you pointed out with unnecessary bruteness.

 

I still think it's a bit peculiar that one developer is a stretch goal though. 100k isn't all that ridiculous for one developer I guess. It's about 8000 USD a month for a year, which is still a lot of money, but not for a veteran designer. It's still a bit weird though, I think.

 

The people asked for zIeT (edit: It was the people's idea to add him as a stretch goal, enough said. Argument end. Period)

 

In what way is a single developer worth a million dollars? No, in my opinion you should change that goal to something worthwhile.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Osvir

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Yep, this is the problem with crowd funding. You can say that your only obligation is to the fans, but the fans have a billion different diverging opinions. You really, really can't please all of the people all of the time. What 'rubs you the wrong way' is actually the only stretch goal that has me excited.

 

My suggestion to Obsidian: ignore people who don't agree with me. Its the only way to produce a quality game.

[SinoSamba]

Chris A. was a stretch goal of WL2 and a lot of people were excited when it happened. Not sure why George Z. being a stretch goal for PE rubs anyone the wrong way.

 

Stretch goals are designed to be "carrots on a stick" to entice people who are on the fence on backing the project or upping their pledge. George Z. sounds like a great carrot to me. And having him on the team will make the game better.

[dlux]

In what way is a single developer worth a million dollars? No, in my opinion you should change that goal to something worthwhile.

George Ziets is worth $5 million actually. Obsidian just screwed him over and got him real cheap.. That is one Feargus' talents you know.

[Keyrock]

What could possibly be more important than a fantastic developer and creative mind? In my opinion, George is a steal at only 2.8 million.

[Dawn_]

I hardly come to this forum now (more wandering in the comment section) But i want to respond to this (thanks to trister for the link).

 

But as i like Ziets and want him in. I think he should have been put before the Paladin and chanters stretch goal.

I'd rather have more story/depth and another writer/designer creative person. Than 2 more classes. Not that i don't want Chanters (i especially forgot the other class )

 

But adding others classes seems a minor stretch goal for me when we already have 9. While having Ziets is a real real addition.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Dawn_

[dlux]

@Dawn_

 

Obsidian could have added him at $1, but the Feargusaurus really likes to see us suffer. ^^

 

But seriously, George Ziets really is the bigger goal. Having such a talented writer on the team really improves the game much more than by just adding two, albeit awesome, classes. Obsidian is also trying to raise funds for the game - so their choice makes a lot of sense.

[Madzookeeper]

also, having another writer/developer means the game is going to be a fair amount larger because of it. there's only so much that each person can do, and by adding someone else to at the very least write another area it is going to make the game bigger by at least said area. which i think we can all agree is a very good thing.

[Dawn_]

Clearly, i mean having in on the team is like having twice the depth in the background/lore design/companions that it was at first.

 

Well, dlux. Seeing those kind of comment/topic, make me feared they make a wrong move by putting him after the paladins/chanters stretch goal..!

You can see that some like the OP, obviously don't know the guy (shame on you ! Boo is Booing you !) and would sincerely think that it is too much of a goal for one guy

Edited October 10, 2012 by Dawn_

[JediMB]

with this money how many less know but equal talented artists could be paid?

 

Listen, putting aside that it's never been stated that the 100k are all going to be spent on Ziets' salary and such, there's something else to keep in mind...

 

If they hire another writer, it's because they want more writing.

 

More writing means more content, which means they'll also need more programmers and designers. They'll want their salaries too.

 

And, finally, the more content is implemented, the more work will go into making sure that all the different pieces of the game fit together.

 

Am I painting a clear enough picture here?

[Gyges]

You havent tried Mask of the Betrayer so you dont have a say in this. Come back after you've played it. Hearing Avellone will have to brainstorm a long with Ziets means everything to the advancement of the games story-elements.