Mass Effect 3

[Volourn]

"Maybe I've been overestimating the amount of pull Ray & Greg have with corporate."

 

They are corporate.

[Nepenthe]

Talk about giving bio too much credit, I also doubt they would like to deal with the ****storm that ending DLC would create.

They already are dealing with a ****storm, and IIRC the FO3 ending rework was pretty well received overall. Well, it was of course Beth, who gets a pass for everything, but still.

 

 

 

Also fwiw the scuttlebutt is that the story architect of ME (Drew... Karpyshyn, I think?) had a more coherent ending drafted but somewhere along ME3's development cycle he got shuffled to SW:TOR, leading the team to do last-minute rewrites (he resigned from the company last month, which may or may not be telling) resulting in ME3's ending, which honestly feels like it came from another game entirely. I'd believe it, if just for the fact that the ominous dark matter / star death mystery from the Tali portion of ME2 (which I think Karpyshyn was responsible for) seemed like heavy foreshadowing but is entirely ignored in ME3. Apparently the original ending had something to do with that.

I think some type of major story change at a fairly late point is given, but I can't believe Karpyshyn leaving had a lot to do with it (or vice versa). The man's been a fairly successful novel author for some time now (though based on the ME novels, I can't see how), and chose to become a "real" writer instead of a game one. Besides he exited the ME2 production at a relatively early stage, and this type of major plot points aren't up to the lead writer alone, anyway (certainly not in this franchise, where nothing happens unless Casey Hudson sez so).

 

As for ME3 DLC, I was pretty satisfied with the quality of most ME2 DLC. They weren't all copy-paste jobs like DAO DLC and each offered new locations and items and some different gameplay elements. At this point though, I don't have any real urge to purchase any pre-endgame ME3 DLC because what's the point?

 

DLC that would interest me is something that expands upon the end-game sequence. I was hoping for the endgame to be drawn out and brutal. I was expecting Shephard to help Anderson lay out the entire battle plan, and you could assign the allies you picked up, ME2 and ME3 party members to specific roles according to their aptitude much like ME2.

And I think here you just hit the nail on why there has to be end game changing DLC. With that ending, nobody will care about going back to save some random part of the galaxy.

 

 

The last Karpyshyn novel revealed Omega to be Reaper tech, like the citadel is. It would give them an easy way of altering the end sequence in some way.

 

[Gorth]

Have they changed the way "Shockwave" works compared to ME2?

 

It seems like most of the time my Adept tries to single out an enemy, it becomes greyed out as not useable. Yes, that's unshielded enemies. Or did they just make most enemies immune that specific power?

[Morgoth]

I got something like 5500.

 

Yes, it was strenuous to get there, but certainly not impossible.

Actually, it is impossible to get an EMS of 5500 without MP.

I don't know what you people are talking about. My green bar was almost filled completely, despite being stuck with 50% War readiness.

[Pop]

I assume a full green bar gives you the third (green) choice in the Final Moments of the game. There are a number of different tiers of earth-****edupedness that EWA determines. Like I think if you go in at or near minimum

the atmosphere gets blown off the earth and it becomes a cold, dead rock

. Don't quote me on that one, though.

 

The minimum for the "surprise ending" is 4,000. You fill the bar well before you hit that number.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Pop

[Oner]

So apparently there's a petition going on for Bio to change the ending.

http://www.destructoid.com/mass-effect-3-fans-petition-bioware-to-change-the-ending-223615.phtml#ext

[Drowsy Emperor]

That's a bit silly.

 

The ending is what it is, changing it now would mean they didn't have a clue what they were doing the first time around.

 

But I still don't get why they (the fans) care so much. Its not 2001: A Space Odyssey, whatever ending they slap on it won't make it any better as a whole. But it does show they have bad taste when they automatically cry for a happy end. One could almost predict that a pessimistic ending would be epic fail after 60+ hours of sucking up to the player and telling him he's the second coming.

 

I mean, Mass Effect, game of the generation? decade? the new "star wars"? seriously?

 

If its a joke, its in bad taste.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Guest Slinky]

Here's a pretty good post in BSN how shepard might be in the process of being indoctrinated at the end, apparently explaining some of the stuff going on. Haven't myself finished the game yet, just started yesterday.

 

Don't know about how true that turns out to be, but if they put out some The True Ending DLC, just 10$!, they can kiss my ***

[WorstUsernameEver]

That's definitely *not* a good post, that's grasping at straws because you don't like the ending. It's okay, from what I get the ending is very bad, but don't kid yourself and pretend that there is some Lynch-level multiple interpretation thing going on, it would be extremely inconsistent with the storytelling until that point.

[Guest Slinky]

Very likely, that just sounds feasible to me. Might change as I play the game.

 

But the idea of the game indoctrinating the player is kinda neat.

[Azure79]

I can't believe I read the entire first post.

 

Interesting, but I think its giving Bioware way too much credit. Besides if

Shephard is lying in the rubble at the foot of the trasmitting device, why don't they they kill him while he is helpless? Why go through the entire indoctrination process where there is a chance be can break out of it. Kill him, problem solved.

 

[Bendu]

The endings would be much better if they were supported in one or another way by Mass Effects 2 main plot. Storywise, ME2 main plot was such a waste of time for the entire trilogy. Nethertheless, I really like the synthesis ending.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Bendu

[Nepenthe]

That's a bit silly.

 

The ending is what it is, changing it now would mean they didn't have a clue what they were doing the first time around.

 

But I still don't get why they (the fans) care so much.

Which has been repeatedly established over the past few years. So I'm gonna share with you the advise given to me in the Skyrim thread: just **** off.

 

The endings would be much better if they were supported in one or another way by Mass Effects 2 main plot. For the story, ME2 main plot was such a waste of time for the entire trilogy. Nethertheless, I really like the synthesis ending.

Kind of agree with you here. Some key moments were important in ME2, but overall... not so much.

[Raithe]

Have they changed the way "Shockwave" works compared to ME2?

 

It's not just the Shockwave doesn't work on shields, it has a range now. So if they're not within about 10 meters of you it won't work. In fact, one of the power options you get at around rank 5 is to extend it to 15 meters or so.

 

One thought that did crop up about the endings..

 

 

Sure, all the Mass Relays are dead, so the quick travel the 1-200 light years from the "minor" relays, and the reaaaly large jumps from the "major" relays are no longer in existence... But ezo is still around, and they have ships that can do FTL travel to a degree without the Relays. Just on a much smaller scale... So galactic civilisation is just set to become narrow neighbourhoods of clusters for the moment...

 

 

 

Actually, I have to say two moments actually had me feeling kind of angry at characters in the game.. And both pretty much came about because of the Thessia mission.

 

 

One: Why the hell can you not bitch slap the Asari in general and give them the third degree for hiding a fricking Prothean beacon ? Especially since it would have been backing up Shepards warnings about the Reapers for the last millenia or so they've been tooling around with it? If the Councilor knew it was there, why didn't she even check up on Shepards warnings three years previously? You really should have had some Renagade options for yelling at her alone...

 

Two: KL's taunting email afterwards about beating you. The guy is meant to be a smooth killing machine (although one with a bit of an ego), and he didn't beat you, he had a gunship blow up the floor you were standing on and then ran off.. That made me want to take out galactic advertisements with the whole "a terminally ill Drell can beat this man. So can anyone, if you can get past his allies in freaking gunships who shoot rockets at the floor you're stood on."

 

 

[Malcador]

Well finished Tuchanka, that was well done to tie everything together. Really regret offing Wrex when I see his replacement, but the option I took for the quest was enjoyable and a pleasant amount of underhandedness.

[Nepenthe]

Have they changed the way "Shockwave" works compared to ME2?

 

It's not just the Shockwave doesn't work on shields, it has a range now. So if they're not within about 10 meters of you it won't work. In fact, one of the power options you get at around rank 5 is to extend it to 15 meters or so.

 

One thought that did crop up about the endings..

 

 

Sure, all the Mass Relays are dead, so the quick travel the 1-200 light years from the "minor" relays, and the reaaaly large jumps from the "major" relays are no longer in existence... But ezo is still around, and they have ships that can do FTL travel to a degree without the Relays. Just on a much smaller scale... So galactic civilisation is just set to become narrow neighbourhoods of clusters for the moment...

 

 

 

Actually, I have to say two moments actually had me feeling kind of angry at characters in the game.. And both pretty much came about because of the Thessia mission.

Agreed, until the end, the Thessia mission (and its ending, including the post-mission situation) were my major (and possibly only) beef with the game.

 

Somebody referred to people complaining about there not really being a "happy" ending. I think this is a bit unfair, and I'd like to explain my viewpoint. Computer games are a different medium from books and movies. The amount of identification the gamer feels towards his character is by default greater than that one feels towards the hero of a book or a movie. Personally, I consider a flippant "bad" or "bittersweet" ending in a movie or a book already a great challenge to the authors; generally, people will be a lot more likely to reject such an ending than a happy one based on its quality. Ie. most people will be ok with a mediocrely executed happy ending. A poorly executed "bad" ending is almost guaranteed to piss everybody off. Add to this phenomenon the enhanced identification the game medium brings and you are in a situation where a bad ending, no matter how well done, will already cause a ****storm in the fans, but when you do it poorly, it's a disaster of biblical proportions. And that's what happened here. It's absurd.

 

I mean, I was having a ton of fun fighting through London block by block, and they suddenly ****ed the whole thing up in the last five minutes or so.

I think they're going to be under even more pressure to un**** things in some way than Bethesda ever was with FO3. Now remains to be seen if they remain convinced of their infallibility, or if they still have the story-telling chops to get themselves out of the mess they've created by completely failing to appreciate the risk they were taking, and then failing.

[Raithe]

I think one of the things that bugged me most was that there's pretty much no mention of it beyond that point. I mean sure, it gets overshadowed to a certain extent..

 

 

Losing the planet to the Reapers, and Shep's guilt over letting KL run away with the Prothean VI.. But still.

When the Asari Counselor is on comm, you don't even get to bitch her out for the way the Asari government as it were hid the damn Prothean Beacon in the first place.

 

I mean, you get that moment between Liara and Javik in reference to it, but nothing else.

 

The Asari practically created the Council, they were the ones who invoked the whole "its a crime against the Council to hide Prothean Artifacts. They should be studied for the whole universe" etc etc.. and then it turns out they've had a Prothean Beacon on their home planet for the last 50,000 years and have been using it to ensure they were ahead of the curve in technology and all that..

 

But rather then bitch them out and ask them wtf they thought they were doing in not checking on the whole Reaper-thang back when he first told them about it.. Shep just guilts out on not having saved the planet.

 

 

[Tale]

About the ending

 

The issue I take on the "everything will be smaller neighborhoods" is that every fleet in the galaxy is stuck on earth. This includes the Krogan and Turian leadership. That will not go well.

 

[Calax]

Have they changed the way "Shockwave" works compared to ME2?

 

It's not just the Shockwave doesn't work on shields, it has a range now. So if they're not within about 10 meters of you it won't work. In fact, one of the power options you get at around rank 5 is to extend it to 15 meters or so.

 

One thought that did crop up about the endings..

 

 

Sure, all the Mass Relays are dead, so the quick travel the 1-200 light years from the "minor" relays, and the reaaaly large jumps from the "major" relays are no longer in existence... But ezo is still around, and they have ships that can do FTL travel to a degree without the Relays. Just on a much smaller scale... So galactic civilisation is just set to become narrow neighbourhoods of clusters for the moment...

 

 

Remember, in the Arrival DLC (which is why the Batarians are already Refugees) you sorta-kinda blew up a star system with a Mass Relay's destruction. And Shepard just took out every single Mass Relay, which means that, in theory, Shepard blew up countless star systems

 

Actually, I have to say two moments actually had me feeling kind of angry at characters in the game.. And both pretty much came about because of the Thessia mission.

 

 

One: Why the hell can you not bitch slap the Asari in general and give them the third degree for hiding a fricking Prothean beacon ? Especially since it would have been backing up Shepards warnings about the Reapers for the last millenia or so they've been tooling around with it? If the Councilor knew it was there, why didn't she even check up on Shepards warnings three years previously? You really should have had some Renagade options for yelling at her alone...

 

Two: KL's taunting email afterwards about beating you. The guy is meant to be a smooth killing machine (although one with a bit of an ego), and he didn't beat you, he had a gunship blow up the floor you were standing on and then ran off.. That made me want to take out galactic advertisements with the whole "a terminally ill Drell can beat this man. So can anyone, if you can get past his allies in freaking gunships who shoot rockets at the floor you're stood on."

 

 

Kei Lang was just wayyy out of place overall. The whole "I haz sword and mask!" thing felt like he was trying SO HARD to be picked for the batman villain squad, and yet was just left with ME. Hell, this entire game felt a bit off compared to the others. The first one felt like an honest to god light-hearted adventure. The second one was more of a character piece... and now it's just all Shepard all the time with grimdark creeping in.

[HoonDing]

What were the limits of FTL travel in ME universe again? 12-30 lightyears/day? This would mean that if the fuel problem (eezo) was solved, one could cross the entire galaxy in 27-10 years. Not a problem for certain long-lived races. Even then, Arcturus cluster/Exodus cluster is only around 40 lightyears from Earth. Not exactly a problem for humans to reach their nearest colonies.

 

The theme of civilizations of past cycles always relying on ancient technology to drag themselves from their home systems, rather than advancing on their own terms, and their civilizations consequently being reduced to stagnation and henceforth ultimate destruction, is almost Dune-like.

 

That said, the nature and origin of the Reapers plus their way of defeat could've/should've been handled better. BioWare could've taken a lot of cues from the Butlerian Jihad (Battle of Corrin) books (as mediocre as they were) and Heechee chronicles.

[Tale]

30ly/d is Reaper speed. 12 ly/d is Alliance speed.

 

Lifespan shouldn't be half as problemantic as resources. Only the Quarians are repared for long term travel.

[Malcador]

Ah, so an Age of Strife for everyone. Still wonder if they'll do anything with the Dark Energy, or if that got shelved (that was a big thing in the leaked script back in November or so, no?)

[HoonDing]

Civilizations could get up and running again by reverse engineering tech from Reaper corpses on their planet. Reapers don't use eezo for space travel.

 

So there's definitely enough leeway for sequels. The ME universe could easily be transformed into Warhammer/Fading Suns/Dune knockoff which would be preferable over the Babylon 5/Red Dwarf/Battlestar Galactica knockoff we got to experience.

Edited March 12, 2012 by virumor

[Tale]

Considering they ended with

an Adam/Eve plot and 2001 knockoff,

I'm not expecting them to stick to any one theme anytime soon.

[Raithe]

Eh, there's all sorts of dark/grim gritty sci-fi going on. I like to have some general fun space opera with moments of complexity that Babylon 5 gave us. There's no need for every single thing to be dark/gritty and pseudo-post apocalyptic.