Dragon Age 2

[Tigranes]

BG2 throws an insane amount of high + weapons at the endgame to deal with the demons and such, it's only a problem if you, say, somehow miss most of the crafting weapons. Equaliser, Carsomyr, Crom Faeyr, Vorpal Sword, Wave, etc. Then of course you can buy Warblade +4 or pick up a few others.

 

The druid proficiencies really do suck, it feels like designers just gave Jaheria stars in clubs to show off the new weapon, but you get a really nice quarterstaff from the avatar of the elven God near the end as well (though... was it more than +3?).

 

Not to mention you can prepare for both Irenicus fights with buffs, traps and summons. In fact, I think the only part of the BG2 endgame that was not 'balanced' well was Irenicus' slayer form, because obviously you've never had to fight against one and you have no idea what it can and can't do, even if you've used it yourself before.

[Gorth]

The final bosses of BG 2.5 was impossible for me to fight. "My weapon has no effect."

"My weapon has no effect."

"My weapon has no effect."

 

I've got only one character with a +5 weapon, everyone else had trouble finding better than +2. Holy christmas, Jaheira can't use anything better than a club or staff. There's like nothing better than +3 for either that I came across. Fighting that battle felt like the designers were calling me on the phone just to personally insult my mum. And half the enemies spawned by the boss resisted every spell that Edwin, Viconia, Jaheira, and Imoen threw at them. And the fight lasts as long as several boss fights with no resting, so those spells are never coming back anyway.

 

Maybe I'm completely terrible, but the game makes no effort to teach you how to get around that crap. You have to search internet forums for cheese that you won't know unless you're already intimate with D&D 2e.

In SoA, the only weapons better than +3 are Carsomyr +5, Warblade +4, Cutthroat +4 & one of Drizzt's scimitars. Irenicus summons two baalors & two glabrezu in the end fight, but I don't remember if a +4 was required to hurt them (I think a +4 was only needed to hurt demogorgon & mariliths in ToB).

 

In Watcher's keep there's several +4 weapons, though... like staff of the ram & spectral blade that Jaheira can use.

What happened to just turning into the slayer and rip him apart?

 

Works wonders against Kangaxx too

[Majek]

It takes too long and the slayers kills you.

 

And holy c, i might even want to play the latest DA:O DLC

Edited August 26, 2010 by Majek

[Monte Carlo]

The druid proficiencies really do suck, it feels like designers just gave Jaheria stars in clubs to show off the new weapon, but you get a really nice quarterstaff from the avatar of the elven God near the end as well (though... was it more than +3?).

 

Shadowkeeper, every time.

 

I edit her to ++ in scimitars and +++ in two-weapon style, give her the scimitar that gives 2x attacks / rd and a girdle of giant strength.

 

Then she turns into a half-decent fighter.

[Spider]

In SoA, the only weapons better than +3 are Carsomyr +5, Warblade +4, Cutthroat +4 & one of Drizzt's scimitars. Irenicus summons two baalors & two glabrezu in the end fight, but I don't remember if a +4 was required to hurt them (I think a +4 was only needed to hurt demogorgon & mariliths in ToB).

 

In Watcher's keep there's several +4 weapons, though... like staff of the ram & spectral blade that Jaheira can use.

 

You're forgetting Crom Fayer, aka superhammer. There is also a sling you can get that is +5 I believe (which is what I usually give Jaheira). Also doesn't Mace of Disruption coun't as +5 against everything or similar? It's been so long I don't remember.

[Monte Carlo]

The chick outside WK sells the Short Sword of Mask +4, it has a 25% no save chance of entangling an opponent and retails at about GP14.000.

 

You don't even have to set foot in the place to buy it.

[Nepenthe]

+ due to a particularity in the code, weapons always count their highest to hit modifier... So azure edge, which IIRC is +3/+6 vs. undead, always counts as +6 for overcoming wep res.

[Wrath of Dagon]

The debate on whether or not games are art will never end. BioWare head Ray Muzyka knows which side of the fence he

[Orogun01]

The debate on whether or not games are art will never end. BioWare head Ray Muzyka knows which side of the fence he

[HoonDing]

You're forgetting Crom Fayer, aka superhammer. There is also a sling you can get that is +5 I believe (which is what I usually give Jaheira). Also doesn't Mace of Disruption coun't as +5 against everything or similar? It's been so long I don't remember.

I checked and I missed quite a lot.

 

Watcher's Keep: Taralash +4 (bow), Firetooth +4 (crossbow), Dagger of the star +4, Angurvadal +4 (longsword), Usuno's blade +4 (ninja-to), spectral brand +4 (scimitar), shortsword of Mask +4, Ixil's nail +' (spear), Erinne's sling +4, Staff of the ram +4

 

Regular SoA: Mana bow +4, Boneblade +4 (dagger), FLail of ages +4, Dragon's breath +4 (halberd), wave +4 (halberd), cutthroat +4 (shortsword), staff of the woodlands +4, Sling of Arvoreen +4, Carsomyr +5, Warblade +4, Soul Reaver +4, Crom Faeyr +5, Spear of withering +4.

[Pop]

Druids can't use bows or crossbows.

[Slowtrain]

The debate on whether or not games are art will never end. BioWare head Ray Muzyka knows which side of the fence he

[Serrano]

lol.

 

It's like Bethesda talking about how important good writing is in crpgs.

 

Classic king is naked sort of thing.

 

 

 

That's exaggerating quite a bit. NWN was geared towards two things, first of all they wanted to create a toolset that allowed players to easily make their own games and play them with friends and strangers alike. Secondly the campaign was designed with multiplayer in mind. The story suffered but it did allow more than one player to effect quests, henchmen and the story though dialog options and acknowledged that the different players were separate entities.

 

Mass Effect focused on being a cinematic game, the models and environments were on par with cinematics, everyone was voiced, it felt great. The combat wasn't spectacular granted, but the dialog wheel allowed the players choose a response but still get to enjoy watching the conversation as Shepard's lines are just as much a surprise as the NPC being talked to. It also introduced large swathes of choices being carried over multiple games, that's still a new thing but it shows a lot of promise and I'm sure future games across various genres and developers will benefit greatly from that idea.

 

Dragon Age was designed as a spiritual sequel to Baldur's so I don't think truth be told there are that many exceptional example of innovation there. It did similar things to Mass Effect in regards to cinematic style and C&C carry over, and both games were being developed simultaneously so perhaps they should both be credited with that. The spell combos were a lot of fun though.

 

Edit: All of these ideas were risky btw. They were new and there was a chance that Bioware would get halfway through development and go, "Guys, this actually isn't working. It's more expensive, difficult or just not as fun as we thought it was going to be when we started". I'm not trying to say that everything Bioware creates is perfect or that all of their ideas are sound but they deserve some credit where it's due.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Serrano

[Volourn]

"I don't think truth be told there are that many exceptional example of innovation there."

 

The origins are a good example of pushing something forward and inmnovation (even though there is stuff that has similarities). Afterall, contrary to what some would wnat us to beleive, your oriogin effects the game in major ways including effecting potential endings.

 

Bottom line is all the haters could cry all they want but BIO > them all. And, BIO's version of innovation sure beats Obsidian's which is basically to make sequels to other company's games and the one non sequel was a ME rip off 9and their worst game by far). LONG LIVE MOTB!

[Nepenthe]

Ah yes, the Bio vs. Obsidian setup. The most fruitless discussion in the known world, as basically a game by either studio will still be better than a game by somebody else.

[Serrano]

"I don't think truth be told there are that many exceptional example of innovation there."

 

The origins are a good example of pushing something forward and inmnovation (even though there is stuff that has similarities). Afterall, contrary to what some would wnat us to beleive, your oriogin effects the game in major ways including effecting potential endings.

 

I stand corrected, you're right. I was looking for something dramatic and could only draw parallels with ME, it's late, cut me some slack

 

 

Ah yes, the Bio vs. Obsidian setup. The most fruitless discussion in the known world, as basically a game by either studio will still be better than a game by somebody else.

 

I wasn't trying to put Bioware down I was just saying that I realise they aren't perfect. I agree completely though.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Serrano

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Ah yes, the Bio vs. Obsidian setup. The most fruitless discussion in the known world, as basically a game by either studio will still be better than a game by somebody else.

Yes, but Obsidian>>>>>>>Bio. FACT.

[Volourn]

"Ah yes, the Bio vs. Obsidian setup. The most fruitless discussion in the known world, as basically a game by either studio will still be better than a game by somebody else."

 

True with the exceptions of Sonic RPG and AP, though.

 

 

 

"I wasn't trying to put Bioware down I was just saying that I realise they aren't perfect."

 

Yeah, but nobody really believes BIO is perfect, right? Not even BIO themselves.

[Gromnir]

"I don't think truth be told there are that many exceptional example of innovation there."

 

The origins are a good example of pushing something forward and inmnovation (even though there is stuff that has similarities). Afterall, contrary to what some would wnat us to beleive, your oriogin effects the game in major ways including effecting potential endings.

 

*chuckle*

 

the origins had little genuine impact post the origins, but they did require bio to expend a considerable 'mount o' resources to implement. a handful 'o slightly altered dialogue choices w/o any substantial change o' key plot points? hardly is substantial. hell, compared to the bard stronghold quest o' bg2, all the da origins were lackluster and underwhelming. our most jaded preconception o' the origins previous to playing da had us imagining that, beyond the unique origin material at the start o' the game, we might gets one or two minor and tangential side-quests for each origin. is hard to imagine that Gromnir were gross over-estimating.

 

we ain't seeing bio do origins in da2, so it seems as if even the biowarians ain't convinced that the benefit o' the benefits were outweighed by the cost. is also a bit o' a stretch to call "innovation" when something similar were done by previous developers. sure, bio sunk far more resources into the feature, but there weren't anything genuine novel or original 'bout the da origins. in and of itself, an increase in size does not result in innovation. it ain't a criticism to point out that bio vast expanded 'pon previous origins-like features w/o showing genuine innovation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"the origins had little genuine impact post the origins,"

 

Keep spinning your lies, it doesn't changes. Origins can have a huge effect post origin including on potential end of game scenarios, eqiupment, dialogue chocies, quest outcomes, etc., etc.

 

Just because BIO may or not feel that origins are no longer worth the effort because of money issues does not chnage the fact that they very much do have an impact post origins.

 

R00fles!

[Gromnir]

"the origins had little genuine impact post the origins,"

 

Keep spinning your lies, it doesn't changes. Origins can have a huge effect post origin including on potential end of game scenarios, eqiupment, dialogue chocies, quest outcomes, etc., etc.

 

Just because BIO may or not feel that origins are no longer worth the effort because of money issues does not chnage the fact that they very much do have an impact post origins.

 

R00fles!

 

give examples... and not simple instances o' minor dialogue changes. dwarf noble is different from dwarf commoner almost not at all. all the same major choices is available to any origin: harrowmont or bhalin. as a dwarf commoner instead of fighting a handful o' nameless carta thugs + Jarvia in the big dust town battle, one of the thugs is replaced with leske... whom you cannot have meaningful dialogue with anyways. wow. and a minor trinket bonus attached to each origin is hardly a meaningful difference. replay a +40 hour game to get a five different dialogue encounters and 1 or 2 unique equipment items? HA! is not what bio were selling pre-release... but it figures that vol would buy post release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Wrath of Dagon]

I remember how we were having this discussion on Bioware forums 3 years ago. Ah, good times.

[Thorton_AP]

The biggest one is probably that you can become King/Queen as Human Noble.

[Deraldin]

You're forgetting Crom Fayer, aka superhammer. There is also a sling you can get that is +5 I believe (which is what I usually give Jaheira). Also doesn't Mace of Disruption coun't as +5 against everything or similar? It's been so long I don't remember.

I checked and I missed quite a lot.

 

Watcher's Keep: Taralash +4 (bow), Firetooth +4 (crossbow), Dagger of the star +4, Angurvadal +4 (longsword), Usuno's blade +4 (ninja-to), spectral brand +4 (scimitar), shortsword of Mask +4, Ixil's nail +' (spear), Erinne's sling +4, Staff of the ram +4

 

Regular SoA: Mana bow +4, Boneblade +4 (dagger), FLail of ages +4, Dragon's breath +4 (halberd), wave +4 (halberd), cutthroat +4 (shortsword), staff of the woodlands +4, Sling of Arvoreen +4, Carsomyr +5, Warblade +4, Soul Reaver +4, Crom Faeyr +5, Spear of withering +4.

 

I don't think the Bows and Slings count as they use the ammunition bonus to determine what they can hit. The only exceptions are those that generate their own ammo like the Short Bow of Gesen +4 and Sling of Everard +5.

[Orogun01]

The biggest one is probably that you can become King/Queen as Human Noble.

I think that's the only one.