Dragon Age Origins

[Gfted1]

Oh, that answers my question. ...And undoubtedly doesn't spoil any of the game for me.

 

Heh, sorry if that was a spoil to you.

[Gromnir]

the capacity o' human memory is staggering... when proper directed and motivated. the school we referenced, the one that did mary poppins, made a big production out o' their yearly play. the school librarian and music teacher devoted considerable hours and effort. every year they did similar plays, and they actual had A & B casts and multiple showings. were damned impressive for elementary school. no winging or bluffing.

 

...

 

am recalling some o' the guys we played football with in college. am not sure how they got into school, but they were pretty damned unmotivated as students... tutored a few that couldn't write a paragraph much less a multi-page essay. nevertheless, these jokers could memorize a +100 page playbook.

 

fatigue. assume spells with levels o' complexity 1-6. cast a level 1 spell costs 5 fatigue. cast a level 2 costs 10. etc. must be a super smarty character to cast level 6 spells, but is unlikely that super smarty player is gonna be able to manage a pool o' more than 40 fatigue points even at high levels. on the other hand, the less smarty mage who were more physical oriented maybe boosted fatigue to 65 points... but he can only cast spell levels 1-4. smarty mage can cast 1 level six spell and a single level 2 spell during course of ordinary combat encounter. on the other hand, the buff mage can cast 3 level 4 spells and a level 1 spell... or some other combo o' spells with a total fatigue cost o' 65. added complexity to system: the character can convert health points into fatigue points... but am not sure how would work in rt combat. 'course combat actions also got fatigue costs.

 

fatigue regenerates slow. health regenerates hardly at all... and fatigue and health boosting items/potions typical increase rate o' regeneration rather than simply resulting in an instant boost to fatigue points.

 

is not exact how Gromnir has implemented in past (our pool o' fatigue points tended to be greater so that magic types and combat types could do more stuff during extended combats,) but with a fatigue system we ends up with a much greater array o' viable mage builds and encounter tactics tend to be more challenging too.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Aristes]

Oh, that answers my question. ...And undoubtedly doesn't spoil any of the game for me.

 

Heh, sorry if that was a spoil to you.

No, that's not a spoiler at all, bro. I mean, the mage gets a low damage unlimited use staff? That's exactly the sort of targeted info I want.

[Wrath of Dagon]

She's not really undeveloped, you find out plenty of stuff about her motivations and feelings but the stupid instant change to the dark side at the end ruins everything.

What instant change? She's kidnapped by Malak and "persuaded" to flip. Her existing character flaws, mainly pride, make it possible.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Niten_Ryu]

Everyone handle their PnP roleplaying bit differently but back in the day when I played, we had much less battles then in any CRPGs. Thus wizard having just 1-2 spells didn't matter that much. Yeah, D&D and AD&D spell systems were truely horrible for computer games. Wizards spending most of their time throwing daggers, darts or sling stones at lower levels

 

Then again, nowadays developers try to reach balance no matter what the cost. Often it leads to rather boring systems and mechanics, where class / skill differences are minimal. Sometimes it's fun to play some old game and find out how unbalanced mechanics can create "interesting" situations.

[Kelverin]

Then again, nowadays developers try to reach balance no matter what the cost. Often it leads to rather boring systems and mechanics, where class / skill differences are minimal. Sometimes it's fun to play some old game and find out how unbalanced mechanics can create "interesting" situations.

Nope now they just skip the lower levels because they can't make em fun/interesting.

[RPGmasterBoo]

She's not really undeveloped, you find out plenty of stuff about her motivations and feelings but the stupid instant change to the dark side at the end ruins everything.

What instant change? She's kidnapped by Malak and "persuaded" to flip. Her existing character flaws, mainly pride, make it possible.

 

The persuasion takes a day. She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever. The entire setup is absurd.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Malak himself and everything he does is ridiculous.

[HoonDing]

She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever.

Wasn't Aribeth quicker?

[Wrath of Dagon]

She's not really undeveloped, you find out plenty of stuff about her motivations and feelings but the stupid instant change to the dark side at the end ruins everything.

What instant change? She's kidnapped by Malak and "persuaded" to flip. Her existing character flaws, mainly pride, make it possible.

 

The persuasion takes a day. She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever. The entire setup is absurd.

A day? How do you figure that? I'm pretty sure it's implied it takes a considerable amount of time, you explore a couple more planets before you see her again. And easily corruptible? Like I said, she has character flaws to start with, and anyone will break under torture eventually, known fact.

[Guest Slinky]

I think the thing in Bastilas corruption is the same thing that bothers me in ME often. In ME, you meet people who are absolute sure about their cause, and then they change completely their minds when Shepard just says "Hey, come-on" and smiles. The change happens in blink of an eye. That is not exactly what happens with Bastila, because it happens right in front of you in ME, but still. The change feels artificial to me. I would have liked if there would have been more scenes where Jaws tortures Bastila, who slips little by little to the dark side.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever.

Wasn't Aribeth quicker?

 

No, there you had at least one-two acts where in KotOR you only had one planet.

[Volourn]

"think the thing in Bastilas corruption is the same thing that bothers me in ME often. In ME, you meet people who are absolute sure about their cause, and then they change completely their minds when Shepard just says "Hey, come-on" and smiles"

 

Actually, this happens pretty much in every RPG ever created or heck any game that includes some sort of dialogue that has consequences where you can 'convince' others on stuff. Time is, for the most part, ignored.

[Hell Kitty]

Actually, this happens pretty much in every RPG ever created or heck any game that includes some sort of dialogue that has consequences where you can 'convince' others on stuff. Time is, for the most part, ignored.

 

Yeah. It's typical of RPGs for persuasive characters to drastically change an NPC's mind with just a few lines of dialogue. Are people unaware of this, or are they just ignoring it for the sake of a bit of Bio bashing?

[Guest Slinky]

Actually, this happens pretty much in every RPG ever created or heck any game that includes some sort of dialogue that has consequences where you can 'convince' others on stuff. Time is, for the most part, ignored.

True, but somehow it feels worse in ME. Atleast to me. I just can't point out why, it just does.

[Hell Kitty]

Actually, this happens pretty much in every RPG ever created or heck any game that includes some sort of dialogue that has consequences where you can 'convince' others on stuff. Time is, for the most part, ignored.

True, but somehow it feels worse in ME. Atleast to me. I just can't point out why, it just does.

 

Possibly because you don't like ME as much other games that do it? I mean, when you really like a game it's easy to overlook things in it that would otherwise bother you in a different game.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Hell Kitty

[Guest Slinky]

Possibly because you don't like ME as much other games that do it? I mean, when you really like a game it's easy to overlook things in it that would otherwise bother you in a different game.

I don't think so. Yeah, I think there is a lot to be improved in ME, but I still like it enough that I have played it three times through. But it has bothered me from the very start.. It just somehow feels so clumsy to me. I don't know why it hasn't bothered me in other games.

[alanschu]

She's not really undeveloped, you find out plenty of stuff about her motivations and feelings but the stupid instant change to the dark side at the end ruins everything.

What instant change? She's kidnapped by Malak and "persuaded" to flip. Her existing character flaws, mainly pride, make it possible.

 

The persuasion takes a day. She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever. The entire setup is absurd.

 

 

The persuasion takes a day just like how romances in BG2 happened "quickly."

 

Players seem to forget the idle time of the game that is abstracted out so we don't get bored having to deal with it. It just says "You traveled for 18 hours."

[Maria Caliban]

The persuasion takes a day just like how romances in BG2 happened "quickly."

 

Players seem to forget the idle time of the game that is abstracted out so we don't get bored having to deal with it. It just says "You traveled for 18 hours."

 

I blame that on developers. In most other media, we're constantly given information about the passage of time. I don't think KotOR ever indicated if I'd traveled for 18 hours or 18 days. Many games are happy to have a sense of literal timelessness, and it does nothing for the player

[RPGmasterBoo]

She's not really undeveloped, you find out plenty of stuff about her motivations and feelings but the stupid instant change to the dark side at the end ruins everything.

What instant change? She's kidnapped by Malak and "persuaded" to flip. Her existing character flaws, mainly pride, make it possible.

 

The persuasion takes a day. She probably holds the record for the most easily corruptible paladin ever. The entire setup is absurd.

 

 

The persuasion takes a day just like how romances in BG2 happened "quickly."

 

Players seem to forget the idle time of the game that is abstracted out so we don't get bored having to deal with it. It just says "You traveled for 18 hours."

 

No, you could possibly slog through the entire 150 hours of BGII without completing the romance which is what happened to me, since dialogue kicks in at odd moments. This is speaking for the Jaheira romance, the Aerie one was somewhat quicker and I never tried Viconia or Anomen.

 

But the problem with KOTOR was that there was no abstracted time in between, the events after Bastilas capture to the point of her corruption are shown to happen in a very short time frame and the game doesnt even bother to imply that much time has passed, since it cant - because with her capture the rush to the end kicks in.

 

@Wrath of Dagon: she didnt break under torture, she became Darth Vader and there is a world of difference there. I understand its a part of SW canon that good guys are tempted by the dark side (as dumb and fairytale as the concept is), and in fact the Anakin/Vader plot is practically the whole SW saga, but Bastilas (or Aribeth's) character change are completely unconvincing. Aribeth has the advantage of popping in much later, though she is much more forgettable like everything else about NWN so it doesn't really have much impact on the player.

 

Bastila, aside from being insufferably annoying like Anomen of BGII, and more or less the same self-righteous cretin of a character, figures much more into the plot of KOTOR and its hardly a surprise that her sudden change of mind is jarring and unconvincing.

 

@Deathdealer: every game has its ridiculous moments, and the only way to forgive it is with suspense of disbelief. And if the game doesnt offer that your experience is ruined as all the flaws become extremely visible. Fallout 3 was the worst case ever for me, nothing at all made sense in it (even under the rules set by the gameworld itself).

[Guest Slinky]

@Deathdealer: every game has its ridiculous moments, and the only way to forgive it is with suspense of disbelief. And if the game doesnt offer that your experience is ruined as all the flaws become extremely visible. Fallout 3 was the worst case ever for me, nothing at all made sense in it (even under the rules set by the gameworld itself).

When talking about supension of disbelief, I think Fallout 3 and Oblivion can be left out. If even the devs consider them just sandboxes without brains..

 

And I think I realized why I have trouble with persuading in ME: The PC is fully voiced. For the first time I can hear the full conversation and it's easier to notice how easy it is to change somebodys mind. I guess thats just something I have to get used to.

[HoonDing]

[if even the devs consider them just sandboxes without brains..

Link, please!

[Guest Slinky]

[if even the devs consider them just sandboxes without brains..

Link, please!

Well, I can't give a url because I really don't keep beth interviews on my bookmarks, but they have said that their game scheme is to make big amusement parks where you can walk around without worries. Once some of the devs was asked about what he thought about Planescape Torment, and he answered "playing a game shouldn't feel like working" That tells everything I need to know about bethesda.

[Meshugger]

So when was the releasedate again? Or is there one to begin with?

[Guest Slinky]

PC and Xbox 360:

NA November 3, 2009

EU November 6, 2009

 

PS3:

NA November 20, 2009

EU November 20, 2009