BruceVC Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 11 hours ago, ShadySands said: So independent voters I get, I'm technically independent though I haven't voted for a Republican since Trump hit the scene. That said, undecided voters, I do not get. Trump has been a known quantity since forever and he hasn't changed and is probably not capable of it. I don't care much for Harris, in fact, l do not like her at all, but it's not even a choice between the two. .... Regarding Israel, didn't they kill their last leader that tried for a real peace? I finally get why my Jewish step-grandfather (is that a thing?) hated Israel. I won't mention the things he said because I don't want Mossad to assassinate me. It probably wouldn't even make the front page of the news if they took my whole flight down to get me. Not that I'm hard to kill, you could probably lure me into an unmarked van with a Slim Jim and Dr pepper. The reality of the important undecided voters is unique around its influence in the USA and how they can swing elections, I say unique because of the size. They make up anything from 10-15% of registered voters and they literally make up there mind within the last few days before the election. Thats one of the main reasons why USA midterm and presidential polls have often been wrong because polling data almost never includes this group, how could it if they dont know who they going to vote for? And then you ask " why do they even exist? How can anyone be undecided between Trump or Harris " But thats easy to answer, they not influenced and they dont follow the SM drama, media and hyperbole around politics. They vote on outcomes and its easy to identify 3-4 key realities\perceptions that are ostensibly worse in the US and have not improved under the Dems and Biden. And these could be crime border and illegal migration economy and inflation Harris was part of the same government that contributed towards these things as VP so there is legitimate GOP argument to say " if you want to see change in the US how can you vote for the same person that has failed to address these problems over the last few years " But then Trump was also part of the same government 4 years ago so its a similar criticism So in summary, they going to vote on policies and problems that resonate with them and which candidate they believe is better to address those things. They not influenced by subjective views similar to " OMG, you cant vote for Trump because he is racist" Which is why these presidential debates matter to them, its interesting because I was watching an interview with a group of undecided voters on CNN after this debate and several of them are still saying " we not sure who we going to vote for. We not convinced by either candidate yet " "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) My dearest Bruce, I hope this post finds you well. Crime is down. Republicans killed a comprehensive border bill because Trump wanted to campaign on the issue and, unfortunately, it looks like it's working on you. Trump has been a public figure longer than I've been alive. Social media is more likely to give you misinformation. People are stupid. The end Best regards, Edited September 12 by ShadySands I am people and therefore stupid too 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, ShadySands said: My dearest Bruce, I hope this post finds you well. Crime is down. Republicans killed a comprehensive border bill because Trump wanted to campaign on the issue and, unfortunately, it looks like it's working on you. Trump has been a public figure longer than I've been alive. Social media is more likely to give you misinformation. People are stupid. The end Best regards, Sure but perceptions are reality and sometimes perceptions dont align with the reality So if you take the perceptions of the US economy and this particular voting issue most Americans think Trump can do better job at handling the economy than Biden. This poll is few months old and might have changed now that Biden is gone but its one reason why people would vote for Trump. Harris might not changes these views https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50051-trump-biden-americans-perceptions-who-would-better-handle-biggest-problems-inflation-corruption-poll "A new survey finds that the problem that Americans are most likely to consider a very serious problem in 2024 is inflation — and they’re more likely to approve of Donald Trump’s handling of the issue than Joe Biden’s handling of it. Other problems that a majority of Americans consider very serious, including corruption and drug abuse, also are ones that they feel Trump has done a better job handling than Biden. The poll was conducted after Donald Trump's conviction on 34 felony charges, and before the first presidential debate." And I agree about the GOP destroying the border deal because Trump wanted to make this a political issue so I dont consider Trump serious about dealing with the border either but the argument to this is " the Dems had years to take the border seriously and only in the last 12 months did they act ". Its not a convincing justification to torpedoing the border deal because this should have been a bipartisan objective But let me ask you a question, you said you would never vote for Trump. Can you share 2-3 reasons why you would never vote for him I realize these are legitimate considerations for you but I am interested in what they are And I ask this because it goes back to your original question, undecided voters are undecided for different reasons to you but it doesnt make them stupid "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Okay 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 8 hours ago, ShadySands said: People are stupid. Therein lies the answer to the question at hand. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted Saturday at 05:47 AM Share Posted Saturday at 05:47 AM All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout. 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted Saturday at 11:59 AM Share Posted Saturday at 11:59 AM 6 hours ago, rjshae said: All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout. Its common in most Democracies to find celebrities endorsing a candidate or a celebrity saying who they will vote for In South Africa its common to find artists saying who they like, I dont have an issue with that because I see it as freedom of speech But I find it very strange that anyone should be influenced to vote for any candidate because a celebrity is voting for them This is an example of the unhealthy celebrity worship culture You should vote for a candidate because of what you believe around policies, not what someone else believes "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted Saturday at 01:57 PM Share Posted Saturday at 01:57 PM 8 hours ago, rjshae said: All this fuss about Taylor Swift's endorsement of Harris reminds me of Oprah Winfrey's support for Obama back in 2008. A pair of economists estimated it added a million votes for Obama. In this case, does it make any difference? Perhaps it brings out more of the youth vote? That group has historically had a low turnout. As you said, low turnout is an issue and this will likely get out some younger voters. They aren't necessarily being swayed to vote for Kamala over Trump. I doubt there are many Swifties that are die hard Trumpsters as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted Saturday at 08:53 PM Share Posted Saturday at 08:53 PM True Swifties won't vote. They'll just leave a Blank Space. I'll get my coat. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted Saturday at 09:51 PM Share Posted Saturday at 09:51 PM 57 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: True Swifties won't vote. They'll just leave a Blank Space. I'll get my coat. I assume we need to know Taylor Swift songs to get that joke. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted Saturday at 10:04 PM Share Posted Saturday at 10:04 PM 3.5bn views, so statistically nearly half the world's population could have watched it on yt. (Personally, I genuinely like Blank Space) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majestic Posted Saturday at 11:16 PM Share Posted Saturday at 11:16 PM (edited) I think that might have been the second Taylor Swift song that I have listened to, after Shake It Off. Goes to show perfectly just how ignorant of pop music I have become in the past 15 years, which is pretty much exactly when I joined a new team at work and no longer had any colleagues who listen to the radio while working. At a first listen I do not particularily care for Blank Space, then again, it is also rather far from what I usually listen to, so that is not entirely unexpected. Edited Saturday at 11:16 PM by majestic No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted Sunday at 01:33 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:33 AM (edited) I always confuse Shake It Off with the Florence the Machine song Shake it Out. Never sure why Edited Sunday at 01:34 AM by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted Sunday at 02:09 AM Share Posted Sunday at 02:09 AM (edited) Despite being someone who dislikes her voice and who especially dislikes her lyrics most every time I listen to a new song of hers, I've contrarily had the misfortune of having to be the one to defend her a number of times over the years. It's become especially bad recently as of the last year because of her new fandom and subsequent media presence with regards to American football and how much impotent rage there is directed towards her because she merely exists and the TV networks want to capitalize on showing her off. It's not a position that I love being in, but I guess at least she's tried to be helpful with recent elections. Edited Sunday at 05:13 PM by Bartimaeus first sentence sounded funny 1 Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted Sunday at 08:50 AM Author Share Posted Sunday at 08:50 AM 9 hours ago, majestic said: I think that might have been the second Taylor Swift song that I have listened to, after Shake It Off. Goes to show perfectly just how ignorant of pop music I have become in the past 15 years, which is pretty much exactly when I joined a new team at work and no longer had any colleagues who listen to the radio while working. At a first listen I do not particularily care for Blank Space, then again, it is also rather far from what I usually listen to, so that is not entirely unexpected. You are indeed a brave man... I lasted for all of 20 seconds before hitting the stop button Different people obviously have different tastes. Must be lots of other people out there who dig it Back to browsing cats in Springfield memes on the internet... 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted Sunday at 10:35 AM Share Posted Sunday at 10:35 AM My problem with Taylor Swift is that she isn't even bad. Just so bland, generic, nondescript. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted Sunday at 10:37 AM Share Posted Sunday at 10:37 AM (edited) I feel like I'm often defending things I don't care much for or about just because someone is so badly misrepresenting it or making outrageous and often easily debunked claims. I was raised to challenge ignorance wherever I see it especially if it's my own ignorance but that obviously can't apply to the internet. Believe it or not the main reason I go back and forth with Bruce so much is because I honestly like him. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. And with that I'm probably done with this particular thread for a bit. Toodles. Edited Sunday at 10:37 AM by ShadySands 1 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted Sunday at 01:18 PM Share Posted Sunday at 01:18 PM 2 hours ago, ShadySands said: I feel like I'm often defending things I don't care much for or about just because someone is so badly misrepresenting it or making outrageous and often easily debunked claims. I was raised to challenge ignorance wherever I see it especially if it's my own ignorance but that obviously can't apply to the internet. Believe it or not the main reason I go back and forth with Bruce so much is because I honestly like him. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. And with that I'm probably done with this particular thread for a bit. Toodles. And I appreciate you engaging and sharing your opinion It wouldn't be a debate if we didnt have different opinions "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted Monday at 02:15 AM Share Posted Monday at 02:15 AM Another person seems to have planned to take a shot at Trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/16/trump-golf-club-shooting-what-we-know-so-far-about-apparent-assassination-attempt Guy seems to be a whacko from his social media, not surprisingly. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted Monday at 03:03 AM Share Posted Monday at 03:03 AM Didn't get any shots off...more a concept of an assassination, really. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted Monday at 08:37 AM Share Posted Monday at 08:37 AM Why nobody tries to kill Kamala / Biden -Elon Musk 1 "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted Monday at 09:53 AM Share Posted Monday at 09:53 AM This generation of would be political assassins are apparently of low caliber. I am picturing Trump running around in (showy, bulky) full body armor/helmet and using that as some kind of a statement-platform. Maybe he'll start throwing hot dogs into the audience (a The Dead Zone book reference...). This election is simply a joke. Although I have hope that Kamala Harris can win/maybe bring some sanity, if nothing else, back. 1 “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted Monday at 10:19 AM Share Posted Monday at 10:19 AM 25 minutes ago, LadyCrimson said: This generation of would be political assassins are apparently of low caliber. I am picturing Trump running around in (showy, bulky) full body armor/helmet and using that as some kind of a statement-platform. Maybe he'll start throwing hot dogs into the audience (a The Dead Zone book reference...). This election is simply a joke. Although I have hope that Kamala Harris can win/maybe bring some sanity, if nothing else, back. sanity drain with hydration soon entire usa would be as insane as florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted Monday at 10:22 AM Share Posted Monday at 10:22 AM You'd think the Secret Service themselves would personally take care of the insane fascist dictator, like the Praetorian Guard back in the day. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted Monday at 04:11 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:11 PM https://www.rawstory.com/kamala-harris-assassination-attempt-trump-mar-a-lago/ Trump talking about de-escalating rhetoric 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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