TURN BASED combat in Deadfire?!

[IndiraLightfoot]

As somebody who's already looking forward to RB: Ashes of the Fallen, I simply must try this. I'm curious to see just how much is does change the game. Can't wait!

[Moriendor]

Keno San Pablo and Mitch Loidolt also helped us out with the new UI elements.

 

I hope everybody enjoys the new mode starting on Thursday!

 

Awesome addition to the game. Thanks a lot!

 

I can't wait to finally start my full playthrough next month or in March at the latest. Combat looks quite a bit less chaotic from the video snippets you guys have shown so far. It is a really nice option to have. I'm really looking forward to finally diving in 100% (have only dabbled around a little near launch for ~50-ish hours so far).

[GrignardTN]

I've gotten so used to RTwP that it is hard to imagine PoE or Dreadfire w/o it, even though my first experiences with RPGs were turn based. I'll definitely give it a try.

[Wormerine]

Ok! Time for a third turn based playthrough. Looking forward to it and I hope that it's good!

[Wormerine]

Hmm. It's sort of interesting, but it also makes me wonder why they're doing it.

 

Josh stated multiple times (article above including) that he prefers turn-based. And article reflects my feeling that realtime doesn't encourage to engage with Deadfires system.

 

I am really curious to see how it will work.

[Daled]

PCGamer now also posted the news and most people in the comments expressed the willingness to play or buy Deadfire now that will have TBC. The "sample size" is small but it may have a significance among RPG's players.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Daled

[AwesomeOcelot]

Glad I waited for my second playthrough. I much prefer turn-based combat.

 

 

Looks like this was a completely accidental leak. But also hugely interesting because I'm not sure another game like this has actually explicitly included the option to play it RTwP -or- turn-based.

Arcanum did, though there it kind of resulted in both modes being kind of a mess.

 

Fallout Tactics before Arcanum, and it was alright. Arcanum turn-based wasn't too bad, but I felt real-time was worse than Pillars in terms of being frantic and unreadable.

 

Hmm. It's sort of interesting, but it also makes me wonder why they're doing it.

Josh stated multiple times (article above including) that he prefers turn-based. And article reflects my feeling that realtime doesn't encourage to engage with Deadfires system.

 

I am really curious to see how it will work.

 

If that were true that's some weird decision making, Tim also likes turn based and was a lead on PoE.

[mydnightscrivener]

This is amazing. I just hope it doesn't increase game time considerably (the advantage of real time was you could auto-play through trash mobs). I can see this being a huge buff to one-shot aoe spells and abilities. Does quickness or perception add to initiative?

Edited January 22, 2019 by mydnightscrivener

[Manveru123]

 

Now Owlcat, do the same please.

Please don't. Yuck.

[morhilane]

 

 

Hmm. It's sort of interesting, but it also makes me wonder why they're doing it.

Josh stated multiple times (article above including) that he prefers turn-based. And article reflects my feeling that realtime doesn't encourage to engage with Deadfires system.

 

I am really curious to see how it will work.

 

If that were true that's some weird decision making, Tim also likes turn based and was a lead on PoE.

 

 

When Pillars of Eternity was pitched, it was 100% about following Baldur's Gate design which had RTwP (as does most of BioWare games). These days everyone just want turn-based RPGs, despite the genre being super dead for years, considered archaic old school design and laughed at unless it's a JRPG.

 

Divinity Original Sin 2 turned the genre around.

Edited January 22, 2019 by morhilane

[Infinitron]

Not entirely true, turn-based had already been proven viable for bigger budget games by XCOM: Enemy Unknown in 2012.

[Leferd]

100% support this. Hopefully this is a successful pivot for Obsidian.

 

Of course, I'd be interested in knowing how Obsidian will gauge success.

[Wormerine]

 

Josh stated multiple times (article above including) that he prefers turn-based. And article reflects my feeling that realtime doesn't encourage to engage with Deadfires system.

I am really curious to see how it will work.

If that were true that's some weird decision making, Tim also likes turn based and was a lead on PoE.

 

Meaning that it's odd that they design the game using the system, which they like less? 

 

Not quite. Josh is open about his preferences and thoughts but as he stated, he doesn't design games for himself. He also prefers classless system. PoE1 was funded as a spiritual successor and that comes with expectations - classes, RTwP, 6 attributes. 

[Flow]

Odd this video wasn't posted on Obsidian's own YT channel. Seems like that would be a good idea.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Flow

[Zagadka]

So many props for this being released as a free update. We rarely get changes like this without a paywall.

 

<3

[Ethics Gradient]

Odd this video wasn't posted on Obsidian's own YT channel. Seems like that would be a good idea.

The videos are probably some rough cuts for Backer Update #60 that got distributed to the press in advance.  I'm sure we'll see the full thing on Thursday.

[AwesomeOcelot]

PoE1 was funded as a spiritual successor and that comes with expectations - classes, RTwP, 6 attributes.

Josh picked and pitched the project. There was a point where they decided to make a RTwP game over a turn-based game.

[Wormerine]

Josh picked and pitched the project. There was a point where they decided to make a RTwP game over a turn-based game.

 

And they pitched an RPG in stype of Infinity Engine games. He is also pitching a Medieval RPG with turn based combat, and so far it hasn't been greenlit.

[Eurhetemec]

And they pitched an RPG in stype of Infinity Engine games. He is also pitching a Medieval RPG with turn based combat, and so far it hasn't been greenlit.

 

Yeah it's mystifying that people are having difficulty with this concept.

 

Pillars 1 was successfully because it was pitched as essentially "Baldur's Gate for the modern age", and that very specifically included certain elements like a high fantasy setting, RtwP combat, 6 attributes, classes, races, and so on. Had they done something else, and say, gone with the above but with turn-based combat, there would have been a huge amount of grousing and complaining, and the KS would probably have made significantly less money - quite possibly half as much or less.

 

At the time, in 2012, the idea of a modern-style turn-based CRPG doing really well was also completely foreign and un-evidenced. It wasn't until 2014 when D:OS came out that that began to change, and even then, it was a slow burn - it wasn't really until around the Enhanced Edition that D:OS started being seen as this huge success. But even then question marks remained over whether it was a flash-in-the-pan, or part of an ongoing revival of turn-based, which hadn't really been much of a thing since the early '90s - real-time CRPGs, with or without pause had been almost completely dominant since Ultima 7 in 1992. Sure, there was Fallout 1/2, but despite being imho vastly better games than BG1 (not so much BG2), they sold a relatively much smaller number of copies, and had a much smaller place in the collective gamer imagination (at least in the West), and had since become real-time first-person. Shadowrun Returns hadn't even come out (2013).

 

Pillars 2 was a sequel to Pillars 1, intended to be a BG2 to it's BG1 (which it kind of is), and thus they didn't make major changes - again this could have harmed the Fig campaign. It could, by then, also have helped, but we don't know. Only when D:OS2 came out did we really see a clear demonstration that modern turn-based CRPGs could be repeatably extremely successful, which again, was after Pillars 2 was in development. It's very easy to apply hindsight and say they always should have had the mode, but it's completely ignoring the actual context.

[the_dog_days]

 

 

 

Hmm. It's sort of interesting, but it also makes me wonder why they're doing it.

Josh stated multiple times (article above including) that he prefers turn-based. And article reflects my feeling that realtime doesn't encourage to engage with Deadfires system.

 

I am really curious to see how it will work.

 

If that were true that's some weird decision making, Tim also likes turn based and was a lead on PoE.

 

 

When Pillars of Eternity was pitched, it was 100% about following Baldur's Gate design which had RTwP (as does most of BioWare games). These days everyone just want turn-based RPGs, despite the genre being super dead for years, considered archaic old school design and laughed at unless it's a JRPG.

 

Divinity Original Sin 2 turned the genre around.

 

 

Turn style has never died. Every time it's been on the verge of 'dying' an awesome game comes along and changes everyone's mind again. And given that turn style is the best way for a player to control anything with a party or group, it will never die.

[morhilane]

Not entirely true, turn-based had already been proven viable for bigger budget games by XCOM: Enemy Unknown in 2012.

 

I almost mentioned it, but then didn't not because I personally consider that game a strategy game and not a RPG and TB never went out of fashion in that genre.

 

I don't remember a western turn-based RPG reach mainstream popularity like Divinity Original Sin 2 did. Even TB JRPGs seems to have gained in popularity in the last few years (or at least people talks more about them), although that might be helped by all the Steam PC ports.

Edited January 23, 2019 by morhilane

[Manveru123]

 

Not entirely true, turn-based had already been proven viable for bigger budget games by XCOM: Enemy Unknown in 2012.

 

I almost mentioned it, but then didn't not because I personally consider that game a strategy game and not a RPG and TB never went out of fashion in that genre.

 

I don't remember a western turn-based RPG reach mainstream popularity like Divinity Original Sin 2 did. Even TB JRPGs seems to have gained in popularity in the last few years (or at least people talks more about them), although that might be helped by all the Steam PC ports.

 

Actually turn based jRPGs were always huge. Fire Emblem series, Final Fantasy Tactics, Vandal Hearts - just to name a few old school popular gems. I'd say that these kind of jRPGs are actually less popular now, if we're talking mainstream only. Other than Fire Emblem, which is still as strong as ever, only Super Robot Wars comes to mind. Maybe Disgaea too.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Manveru123

[Eelectrica]

Thanks guys. I've been playing this game a hell of a lot lately. Getting through the expansion's so just about ready for another play through.

 

I've practically turned it into a TB game anyway with all the pause options and slowing combat down.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Eelectrica

[Cartoons Plural]

josh sawyer is my fav game designer / basically only one i even know because he's the guy with the ilya repin wallpapers

 

when baldurs gate was out the guys who played games had really no tolerance for turn based it was spat upon, there's no reason to make dungeons and dragons combat real time other than meeting the demand of the market. i have read a few times that interplay saw diablo do well and then demanded that baldur's gate do that also, but still be D&D. its amazing that it still worked, but good writing helps.

 

essentially teenagers and young men of the 90s decided that to take turns was just absolutely the mark of a minimind and the real genius was dealing with everything in real time. this is also the same market that decided that even if 3d graphics looked god awful they were far superior than the top of the line 16 bit 2d graphics of the same time period. and yes civ did fine and i'm sure there were others like Xcom (but it was a cult hit i think) but you know its almost not even about real time i think PC RPGs were just small potatoes compared to FPS anything

Edited January 23, 2019 by Cartoons Plural

[kanisatha]

I think it is a waste of their time and resources. Don't think it will make an appreeciable difference in income for Obsidian.

 

But let's see if the TB fans now argue for Larian following Obsidian's lead. I very much doubt it. D:OS2 is perfect as is, right? Only RTwP games need to be 'fixed' with TB mode.