Wizard Spells by School

[gkathellar]

I've been thinking that part of the problem with specialist wizards is a lack of role definition, so I created a spreadsheet breaking down wizard spells by school for reference purposes.

 

Maybe it'll be of use to someone.

[Heijoushin]

It's interesting to look at. For one thing, it makes you realize that the illusion school gets the short end of the stick. 

 

I agree about the role definition. For example: Blast of frost, freezing rake, and freezing pillar are all from different schools, but they're basically all offensive ice spells. Maybe they did that on purpose so that each school can stand on its own. But wouldn't it make more sense to say, bring back abjuration for all the defensive spells, put all the offensive spells in evocation, keep conjuring as is, keep enchanting strictly for self-buffs, and... I dunno, do something with transmuting, it's all over the place. That way specialist wizards could actually be specialists in what they do.

 

I'm bias because I'm a wizard lover, but this class needs so much love that they practically deserve their own expansion. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Heijoushin

[gkathellar]

The biggest problem, to my mind, is Enchanting: it has virtually all of the self-buffs, but very little else, so it's the school you can't afford to lose and will never want to specialize in. I'm tempted to say it should go entirely, with some other spell-shuffling besides, and the number of banned schools reduced to one. Hell, maybe drop Evocation too, and have a triumvirate of Spells What Summon Stuff, Spells What Change Stuff, and Spells What Deal In Intangibles.

[tinysalamander]

I think I'd rather see schools go. Not sure what I'd replace them with, though. Maybe keywords themselves are enough and you'd just specialize in some shtick, not the whole school of arbitrariness.

[Porcelyn]

I wouldn't mind so much if we got to choose which schools to lose. I like the idea of being specialized but I don't like losing the freedom of choice of how I want to be specialized.

[gkathellar]

I wouldn't mind so much if we got to choose which schools to lose. I like the idea of being specialized but I don't like losing the freedom of choice of how I want to be specialized.

That's ... hard to do, given the way progression tables work. Not impossible, I believe, but a major pain in the ass. Just thinking about how many conditionals you'd have to add to every single spell gives me a headache.

 

Edit: Overthinking it.

Edited August 14, 2018 by gkathellar

[knownastherat]

Reason for uneven spell per PL distribution for Illusionist escapes me. 

 

I do not have a solution but in my opinion Wizard sub-classes and perhaps even spells would deserve a thorough review. The current two cast per PL together with grimoire mechanics, sub-class design and spell per PL distribution do not provide very cool Wizard experience. 

[Heijoushin]

The biggest problem, to my mind, is Enchanting: it has virtually all of the self-buffs, but very little else, so it's the school you can't afford to lose and will never want to specialize in. I'm tempted to say it should go entirely, with some other spell-shuffling besides, and the number of banned schools reduced to one. Hell, maybe drop Evocation too, and have a triumvirate of Spells What Summon Stuff, Spells What Change Stuff, and Spells What Deal In Intangibles.

 

Even the name "enchanting" bugs be to be honest.

Look at the DnD definitions of the schools:

 

Abjuration: Blocking, banishing, protecting

Conjuration: Producing things/creatures out of thin air

Divination: Understanding the past, present and future

Enchantment: Entrancing and beguiling people/creatures

Evocation: Harnessing the power of the elements

Illusion: Deception and trickery

Necromancy: Dealing with life, death and undeath

Transmutation: Changing energy and matter

 

It was sort of the "beguiling" school. In Deadfire, it's apparently the "enchant your own body parts" school.

 

I like the idea of a spell triumvirate (although I'd maybe make it: elemental, summoning creatures, weapons/buffs, as boring as that is). Or maybe base subclasses on something else entirely. Maybe make it a cultural thing. Like the Huana mages specialize in water spells (Tekehu's class), maybe you could have Aedyeran mages and Vailian mages with their own specialties.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Heijoushin

[anathanielh]

Bananamancy: Creation and manipulation of bananas and banana-like materials for offensive and defensive purposes.

[peardox]

This any good?

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/187

 

Looks like what you're after?

 

One of our members recently released this as a ModReq

 

If not we'll sort something out for you

[Bionick]

The biggest problem, to my mind, is Enchanting: it has virtually all of the self-buffs, but very little else, so it's the school you can't afford to lose and will never want to specialize in. I'm tempted to say it should go entirely, with some other spell-shuffling besides, and the number of banned schools reduced to one. Hell, maybe drop Evocation too, and have a triumvirate of Spells What Summon Stuff, Spells What Change Stuff, and Spells What Deal In Intangibles.

I like Enchanting as a specialization for multiclass melee wizards. The sage (monk/enchanter) class is my favorite.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Bionick

[InsaneCommander]

Bananamancy: Creation and manipulation of bananas and banana-like materials for offensive and defensive purposes.

 

Overpowered! It would have spells from all schools:

 

Banana Peel (slicken)

Necrotic Banana

Banana Image

Bounding Bananas

Banana Skin

Banana Shower

[acbatchelor]

 

Bananamancy: Creation and manipulation of bananas and banana-like materials for offensive and defensive purposes.

 

Overpowered! It would have spells from all schools:

 

Banana Peel (slicken)

Necrotic Banana

Banana Image

Bounding Bananas

Banana Skin

Banana Shower

 

 

Might be a fun and silly mod to make all spells about bananas. 

 

More fun spells:

 

Kalakoth's Minor Bananas

Concelhaut's Parasitic Banana

Ghost Bananas

Curse of Blackened Banana (My personal favorite because this happens in real life)

Form of the Helpless Banana

Banana of Many Colors

[anathanielh]

 

 

Bananamancy: Creation and manipulation of bananas and banana-like materials for offensive and defensive purposes.

 

Overpowered! It would have spells from all schools:

 

Banana Peel (slicken)

Necrotic Banana

Banana Image

Bounding Bananas

Banana Skin

Banana Shower

 

 

Might be a fun and silly mod to make all spells about bananas. 

 

More fun spells:

 

Kalakoth's Minor Bananas

Concelhaut's Parasitic Banana

Ghost Bananas

Curse of Blackened Banana (My personal favorite because this happens in real life)

Form of the Helpless Banana

Banana of Many Colors

 

 

I truly hope obsidian adds a 'Form of the Helpless Banana' Spell now.

[gkathellar]

 

The biggest problem, to my mind, is Enchanting: it has virtually all of the self-buffs, but very little else, so it's the school you can't afford to lose and will never want to specialize in. I'm tempted to say it should go entirely, with some other spell-shuffling besides, and the number of banned schools reduced to one. Hell, maybe drop Evocation too, and have a triumvirate of Spells What Summon Stuff, Spells What Change Stuff, and Spells What Deal In Intangibles.

I like Enchanting as a specialization for multiclass melee wizards. The sage (monk/enchanter) class is my favorite.

 

 

From an optimization perspective, you're getting virtually nothing out of your subclass choice, though. Enchanting spells derive virtually no benefit from increased power levels (tiny duration increase, but that's it), and losing illusion puts a gaping hole in your defensive arsenal compared to a non-specialist wizard. More power to you if you enjoy it, but you're effectively trading something for nothing.

[uuuhhii]

the banana idea are amazing

simple banana quarterstaff will be a good start

[arkane83]

I've been thinking that part of the problem with specialist wizards is a lack of role definition, so I created a spreadsheet breaking down wizard spells by school for reference purposes.

 

Maybe it'll be of use to someone.

 

Found a little error. Chill Fog is Transmutation not Conjuration.

[Katarack21]

Am I reading this right? Illusion doesn't even *have* a PL 9 spell? Or a PL 7 spell?

Wow. That's just the worst.

[arkane83]

Am I reading this right? Illusion doesn't even *have* a PL 9 spell? Or a PL 7 spell?

 

Wow. That's just the worst.

 

Yeah, its actually quite illuminating seeing everything broken out by school.

 

Further confirmation that wizard specialization is terribly designed.

[Zoner]

The wizard specializations should probably be changed to something like this:

 

Strong PL bonus on specialized school.

Minor PL bonus on 'friendly' neighboring schools.

Doubled resource cost for 'hostile' schools.

[gkathellar]

Doubled resource cost for 'hostile' schools.

 

I kind of like this idea, and I think it would even be possible to implement, given that several non-wizard subclasses do similar things.

[InsaneCommander]

Doubled resource cost for 'hostile' schools.

 

I kind of like this idea, and I think it would even be possible to implement, given that several non-wizard subclasses do similar things.

 

Yes, so much better than the current way.

[Artaios]

 

The biggest problem, to my mind, is Enchanting: it has virtually all of the self-buffs, but very little else, so it's the school you can't afford to lose and will never want to specialize in. I'm tempted to say it should go entirely, with some other spell-shuffling besides, and the number of banned schools reduced to one. Hell, maybe drop Evocation too, and have a triumvirate of Spells What Summon Stuff, Spells What Change Stuff, and Spells What Deal In Intangibles.

 

Even the name "enchanting" bugs be to be honest.

Look at the DnD definitions of the schools:

 

Abjuration: Blocking, banishing, protecting

Conjuration: Producing things/creatures out of thin air

Divination: Understanding the past, present and future

Enchantment: Entrancing and beguiling people/creatures

Evocation: Harnessing the power of the elements

Illusion: Deception and trickery

Necromancy: Dealing with life, death and undeath

Transmutation: Changing energy and matter

 

It was sort of the "beguiling" school. In Deadfire, it's apparently the "enchant your own body parts" school.

 

I like the idea of a spell triumvirate (although I'd maybe make it: elemental, summoning creatures, weapons/buffs, as boring as that is). Or maybe base subclasses on something else entirely. Maybe make it a cultural thing. Like the Huana mages specialize in water spells (Tekehu's class), maybe you could have Aedyeran mages and Vailian mages with their own specialties.

 

That's an interesting perspective. I personally never played any DnD and have been thinking along the lines of Elder Scrolls and other games where you enchant equipment. Which, to be fair, is also called that in PoE (when you enhance, customize your weapons and armor).

Edited August 19, 2018 by Artaios

[fced]

On 8/14/2018 at 2:41 PM, gkathellar said:

I've been thinking that part of the problem with specialist wizards is a lack of role definition, so I created a spreadsheet breaking down wizard spells by school for reference purposes.

 

Maybe it'll be of use to someone.

Thank you very much for this sheet

[xzar_monty]

That was definitely a necromantic comment, although the school doesn't exist in Deadfire!