E3 2018 Thread

[majestic]

But in an evaluation respect, it's perhaps far more certain that relatability and emotion inclusion is the result of today's stories being more carefully and meticulously crafted. We have games that are no longer designed to give players a false sense of proportional freedoms but to poke at their heart.

 

That's absolutely not true. An emotional gaming narrative/experience existed at least as far back as the early 90ies. You know, the very first time a PC game crushed me emotionally happened back in '91:

 

"No, not this time. Tengoku de omachishi te imasu!"

 

Developers are now injecting their personal stories as a whole into their games. This is proven as non-existent in games from 70's/80's/90's as they were far more cashgrabs then than there are now.

 

You can't be serious. Although there's one thing I'll give you: It's far easier today for someone to create and publish a game than it was 25 years ago, so games like That Dragon, Cancer or Hyper Light Drifter have an easier time being made today. That's good - I honestly mean that. But these games existing doesn't mean that storytelling has become better overall. Or improved upon it's 90ies incarnation. The narrative devices are still the same. In terms of pure tech narrative presentation has been stuck for a while now. And actually - I don't think it is going anywhere.

 

Perhaps with VR, but that remains to be seen. There was a VR fad in the 80ies already and it fizzled out. The new tech looks better but hasn't solved the actual problems.

Edited June 18, 2018 by majestic

[Fenixp]

Since this thread is already derailed, here's a picture of my dog:

Coolsies! Have a rat!

Edited June 18, 2018 by Fenixp

[Mamoulian War]

Unfortunatelly VR feels to me like a fad in this age as well. Most of the games I've played feel just like technical demos of the hardware with almost no substance. Which is IMO shame.

 

At least there are some Virtual Novels released in Japan already, to justify the price for some people :D

[algroth]

As usual, Sonic's arguments are extremely poor and thoroughly baity (attributing preferences for older games to "nostalgia" as if one couldn't attribute the opposite to recency bias, appealing to the Courtier's Reply to make a case for Taylor bloody Swift of all people, proposing blanket statements regarding the "evolution of storytelling" without further argument or that personal stories in earlier games are "proven as non-existent in games from 70's/80's/90's as they were far more cashgrabs then than there are now" as if a) the latter statement somehow proves the previous one to be true, or b) as with the height of Hollywood's studio system in the 30s and 40s not precluding artists like Alfred Hitch****, Leo McCarey or John Ford from injecting their own authorial touch to their work while most definitely working for the industry, people like Chris Avellone, Tim Schafer or the Millers were pretty undeniably injecting their own sensibilities and authorship to their work back then regardless of under what system they worked in or who for), I do have to agree with the overall argument that games *have* progressed a fair bit since those times and that the notion that "games these days are garbage", or that any one game can summarize the state of modern gaming, is really rather asinine considering the sheer amount of games on offer and the many diverse forms that these can come in. As if the 2013 Tomb Raider can in any way reflect the experience of playing games like Deadfire, Bloodborne, Ori and the Blind Forest, Undertale, Cities: Skylines, Overwatch, Doom, Sunless Sea, Super Mario Odyssey, Inside, Into the Breach and so on, or any of these the others. I also disagree with the assumption that "retro games" are necessarily the same as the games they are "emulating" or being inspired by - for starters I don't believe that a particular style or genre being revised decades after the fact can be the exact same it was decades prior, I do believe there is a definite process of refinement, recontextualization and transformation involved, there's a reason why so many new synthpop and synthwave artists today are loving the Minneapolis sound riffs or the Tangerine Dream/John Carpenter synth pads but do away with the David Sylvian/Roland Orzabal crooning, the "Purple Rain" reverb or the Human League/Dead or Alive anthemic choruses and the likes - meanwhile, defects like record scratches, tape distortions and so on have become a conscious design choice and not mere accident. For all its flaws a game like Transistor is utilizing the isometric perspective in a very different and much more deliberate and self-aware manner than the isometric RPGs of old were doing their own, and to a fairly different effect - likewise the "scripted interactions" in Pillars feel to me as a very "modern" addition inasmuch as they immediately comment on the game's aesthetic as a conscious design choice that is deliberately steering away from the more "cinematic" forms of either previous Obsidian games or much of the genre's more mainstream contemporary examples and so on, and they do likewise open up a different means for the game to tell its story and so on, which to me at least feels very fresh and inspired. Likewise I think it's absurd to not recognize that between several of these games and their spiritual predecessors there's been decades of progress in game design that have been put to use to either smooth out the wrinkles or straight-up innovate and create very fun and satisfying twists to these previous formulas and so on (e.g. Undertale's particular approach to turn-based combat and so on). Granted, with each example above your mileage may vary, but still I stand by these points.

Edited June 18, 2018 by algroth

[Fenixp]

Hitch****

Good post. This nearly made me fall off my chair tho.

[SonicMage117]

*Tries too hard*

 

You try too hard....

 

You show me where any of those people included their losses, diseases, etc in their games... Humor is a different thing. User experience does not define personal comfrontation through story. A story can have many things but I don't think wht you're saying is what I'm saying.

 

Hitch****

Good post. This nearly made me fall off my chair tho.

Me too :D

 

It was a good try, I admit.

Edited June 18, 2018 by SonicMage117

[algroth]

 

*Tries too hard, writes a steaming pile of garbage*

Great post coming from the guy who always claims that anyone who could possibly agree with me is a "sockpuppet" or fake account. I take it that you're not done with your little vendetta since you just came out of nowhere to insult me without anything relevant to say. What this is really about is the fact that you hate that I'm still here, and furthermore, I'm not going anywhere

lol, k. Read whatever you want into my reply.

Edited June 18, 2018 by algroth

[SonicMage117]

Sorry, thought you were someone else so I edited my comment. Sincere apology <3

[IndiraLightfoot]

Since this thread is already derailed, here's a picture of my dog:

 

Let me just call on you for a sec and say that I adore labs!

 

Carry on...

[Chilloutman]

Since this thread is already derailed, here's a picture of my dog:

 

 

pff such low play to get few likes, you should be ashamed to use your friend like that

[Skazz]

pff such low play to get few likes, you should be ashamed to use your friend like that

 

 

It's hard to say "no" when you're a dog!

[Blodhemn]

I do have to agree with the overall argument that games *have* progressed a fair bit since those times and that "games these days are garbage", or that any one game can summarize the state of modern gaming, is really rather asinine considering the sheer amount of games on offer and the many diverse forms that these can come in. As if the 2013 Tomb Raider can in any way reflect the experience of playing games like Deadfire, Bloodborne, Ori and the Blind Forest, Undertale, Cities: Skylines, Overwatch, Doom, Sunless Sea, Super Mario Odyssey, Inside, Into the Breach and so on, or any of these the others.

Is it really asinine to rather replay New Vegas for the 10th time than to play these games which I know I won't or don't like nearly as much? I didn't clearly write out that the Tomb Raiders should be grouped with your Ass Creeds and the like, then the Indies in their own group of quirk, but figured that'd be self explanatory. That said, I don't enjoy the whole realm of gaming like I do when I just sit down and play New Vegas or a few other titles. I don't think I share much in common with the industry these days or perhaps ever - basically here for the Cainarsky, and once that's done, so am I. Not into Pillars - couldn't be any less interested in the setting/style. Same goes with every game listed here. Bastion was one of the best written games in recent times, but the gameplay? Heh, not so much. Many of today's games are remarkably unreplayable in my eyes.

[SonicMage117]

Wait... you consider gameplay of Baldur's Gate or Fallout games to be better than Bastion's? I mean, sure the freedom is gone but... the combat and exploration of Fallout and IE game's isn't their strong suit. If IE and Fallout games still have (or have ever had) the best storywriting and gameplay God help us... I want to enjoy the "garbage" of today. It's going to be Pillars, The Witcher 3 and Dragon's Dogma and others for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, what am I saying, this is an Obsidian forum (basically these games are king here) so pardon what I say quite dashfully.

[algroth]

 

*Tries too hard*

You try too hard....

 

You show me where any of those people included their losses, diseases, etc in their games... Humor is a different thing. User experience does not define personal comfrontation through story. A story can have many things but I don't think wht you're saying is what I'm saying.

 

 

So I assume a narrative is only personal if it involves some autobiographical element or other to it? I cannot answer this question for you because I don't really care about the personal lives of the devs behind the games I like, but I can tell from playing the games themselves that there is a thematic and stylistic consistency through the body of work of the likes of Avellone, Cain and Schafer, or a definite, distinct vision in games like Myst or Wasteland. I don't think their works are any less "personal" regardless of how they may immediately compare to their real lives and such.

 

 

I do have to agree with the overall argument that games *have* progressed a fair bit since those times and that "games these days are garbage", or that any one game can summarize the state of modern gaming, is really rather asinine considering the sheer amount of games on offer and the many diverse forms that these can come in. As if the 2013 Tomb Raider can in any way reflect the experience of playing games like Deadfire, Bloodborne, Ori and the Blind Forest, Undertale, Cities: Skylines, Overwatch, Doom, Sunless Sea, Super Mario Odyssey, Inside, Into the Breach and so on, or any of these the others.

Is it really asinine to rather replay New Vegas for the 10th time than to play these games which I know I won't or don't like nearly as much? I didn't clearly write out that the Tomb Raiders should be grouped with your Ass Creeds and the like, then the Indies in their own group of quirk, but figured that'd be self explanatory. That said, I don't enjoy the whole realm of gaming like I do when I just sit down and play New Vegas or a few other titles. I don't think I share much in common with the industry these days or perhaps ever - basically here for the Cainarsky, and once that's done, so am I. Not into Pillars - couldn't be any less interested in the setting/style. Same goes with every game listed here. Bastion was one of the best written games in recent times, but the gameplay? Heh, not so much. Many of today's games are remarkably unreplayable in my eyes.

Maybe I misunderstood, but you did write this:

That 2013 Tomb Raider was some special kind of garbage. Never really been into Tomb Raiders but that game summed up gaming these days pretty well. It was one of the last games I bought, on discount even, and it still made me feel stupid for buying it. Every game is some crappy rehashed hybrid of some sort, obsessed with the next gimmicky mechanic. I didn't expect anything from this E3, and am still almost grossed out by the slew of crap.

Fair enough that it's entirely your prerogative if there's no game out recently that you know that you've liked, but these most definitely sound like blanket statements that hardly hold to scrutiny when applied across the board, within or without their "groups" and the likes, any more than someone stating Radiohead is all the "same bland britpop" would its own.

Edited June 19, 2018 by algroth

[Blodhemn]

I'd say it rings true for a large chunk of gaming, but obviously there are always exceptions. I never feel the need to point that out, but I forget that net discussions practically require it.

 

That said, even the exceptions aren't really my thing. Just not that interested to have to try every single mechanic/story out there. Just a point where I'd rather be doing something else.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Blodhemn

[Lexx]

I find it to be quite arrogant (or just stupid?) to claim that games from the 90s had no personal intake of developers experiences in life. But I really don't want to argue with SonicMage117, as there is no point to it. He'll just beat you with yet another hilarious post.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lexx

[Katphood]

Not only did I do everything thing...

And I shall give you dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth, and every thinging thing that thingeth.

[SonicMage117]

I find it to be quite arrogant (or just stupid?) to claim that games from the 90s had no personal intake of developers experiences in life. But I really don't want to argue with SonicMage117, as there is no point to it. He'll just beat you with yet another hilarious post.

It's not that 80's and 90's games weren't personal, it's as I said, developers are putting more of their own personal issues into their games. This is inarguable but look at the forum we are on. It's going to continue to be pick on SonicMage day, for it is written

 

I'd pity the poor soul of a brand new member with the coursge of coming here and pointing out everything wrong with an Infinity Engine game hehe They'd be right, of course but this just isn't the place to do so.

 

Not only did I do everything thing...

And I shall give you dominion over every creeping thing that creepeth, and every thinging thing that thingeth.

Thank you, the thread did get a bit creepy for a bit but I was happy to see that the mention Taylor Swift got upsetted everyone's skin that much lol Edited June 19, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Mamoulian War]

Sonicmage, do not take it personaly too much. This world is full of oppinion bubbles, due to how Google changed how internet works. It is (at least for me) very fresh to have some people to talk with, with which I can respectfully disagree on some topics

[SonicMage117]

I don't take it personal lol I'm used to it on Steam and Facebook as well. I just laugh and continue to stand my ground, as always. This isn't a huge deal to me but I always found it strange how I become the blame of the thread going off topic when the other side is throwing multiple comments and encouraging me to defend my viewpoint (as if I had to)

[Mamoulian War]

 

I don't take it personal lol I'm used to it on Steam and Facebook as well. I just laugh and continue to stand my ground, as always. This isn't a huge deal to me but I always found it strange how I become the blame of the thread going off topic when the other side is throwing multiple comments and encouraging me to defend my viewpoint (as if I had to)

Don't worry, give it two or three more years, there will be new guy with incomming Pillars of Eternity 3, who we'll be blaming for going off-topic again, and you'll be blaming him with us as well Such is the nature of internet

Edited June 19, 2018 by Mamoulian War

[LadyCrimson]

....well, the Assassin's new game sounds mildly interesting. I'd certainly probably like the format change vs. what I perceived the original format to be (never had interest/never played any, hence "perceived").

 

But it's Ubi right? Uplay? I haven't played anything that requires Uplay since Uplay began. Maybe one day a game will make it happen tho (just like FONV is what made me reinstall/use Steam again)...just probably not this one. Still, I do like the setting and I do like arpg's/open world, if the dev's choices match my personal tastes well enough. Hm.

[Katphood]

Ah, it's cool. I love these boards because people know how to respect one another. The thread didn't got derailed actually, the e3 simply came to an end and people started talking about games and how they have aged. Pretty interesting topic actually. A while ago Lexx was recalling how a few of the quests in the original Fallout where actually nothing more than 'go to place A and kill B'.

 

There are couple of things to consider here IMO:

 

-those ideas where fresh back then(probably)

 

-they were done with style

 

-nostalgia is a weird thing

 

-it isn't about how games have aged but how much fun we had with a certain game at a certain point in time.

 

-some games 'age well' because they have gameplay mechanics that are simple and fun, but also hard to master. Doom and Quake are good examples, I could still play them and have huge amounts of fun.

 

 

Pssst, someone should make a 'Which games have aged well in your opinion?' thread.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Katphood

[SonicMage117]

It seems to be an arcade game but looks better than sims...

 

2D platformer with colorful backdrops, I want it!

[Amentep]

Pretty sure that Indivisible is a platformer / Party based RPG hybrid game.  Made by the same people who made Skullgirls.  I've been looking forward to it for some time.