[POTD Difficulty] Launch NOT tuned discussion thread

[Flow]

But why release when the game is not ready. Difficulty is an important part of the game play experience. 

 

Because resources aren't infinite and the game has to release eventually.

 

Ultimately, it's hard to disagree with prioritizing bug fixing over combat balance, and based on their track record with PoE1 I'm confident they'll address it.

[Madscientist]

I agree with Josh to focus on bug fixing over PotD balancing.

 

PoE1 was a buggy mess at release and I had to quit my first playthrough because of bugs. This is much more annoying than uneven difficulty, and every player has a different opinion about what is difficult or easy.

 

The beta of PoE2 was good to play without many game breaking bugs. I hope this continues when the full game is released.

 

So far, players could get to level 9.

When players can use all levels it is easier to find things that are too powerful or too useless. Its hard to balance something when only a handful of devs could test it.

[Infinitron]

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3807509&userid=17931&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post483800262

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Infinitron

[daven]

Well least they're being upfront as they can about it.

 

Remember before Numenera came out? Wasn't there tons of broken promises they wouldn't speak about?

[Gromnir]

developers has stated ad nauseum potd is not balanced.  other than hardcore fans, virtual nobody plays potd.  no matter what the developers do to balance potd, the two major complaints o' the feature will be, as always:

 

it was too easy

 

AND

 

it was too difficult

 

if the developers is gonna spend effort balancing a feature which they has express stated they do not balance, we take it as a win, even if the balancing takes place after release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[HAWmaro]

developers has stated ad nauseum potd is not balanced.  other than hardcore fans, virtual nobody plays potd.  no matter what the developers do to balance potd, the two major complaints o' the feature will be, as always:

 

it was too easy

 

AND

 

it was too difficult

 

if the developers is gonna spend effort balancing a feature which they has express stated they do not balance, we take it as a win, even if the balancing takes place after release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

While I agree with you, I'd like to note that when a game has 5 difficulty settings, any complaint about the highest setting(POTD) being too hard should be ignored, If someone is not up to it, he has 4 other settings to choose from. But If POTD is too easy then the hardore crowd is left with nothing.

[algroth]

 

developers has stated ad nauseum potd is not balanced.  other than hardcore fans, virtual nobody plays potd.  no matter what the developers do to balance potd, the two major complaints o' the feature will be, as always:

 

it was too easy

 

AND

 

it was too difficult

 

if the developers is gonna spend effort balancing a feature which they has express stated they do not balance, we take it as a win, even if the balancing takes place after release.

 

HA! Good Fun!

While I agree with you, I'd like to note that when a game has 5 difficulty settings, any complaint about the highest setting(POTD) being too hard should be ignored, If someone is not up to it, he has 4 other settings to choose from. But If POTD is too easy then the hardore crowd is left with nothing.

 

Didn't the first game only allow you to pick PotD at the start of a playthrough, and lock you into it for the rest of that playthrough? Whilst I agree with what you say, I reckon that given that inflexibility the complaint might have some validity when it may force you to restart the game 60 hours into it. Still I agree all in all that the hardest mode being too easy is undoubtedly the bigger problem.

[Gromnir]

as a developer, obsidian cannot ignore unreasonable complaints.  a disappointed customer is less likely to buy the next obsidian product even if the customer is too stoopid to chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.  however, potd complaints is relative insignificant 'cause:

 

1) few purchasers is actual potd players

2) balance efforts on the part of the developer is doomed regardless 

 

want harder difficulty? players can alway find ways to make a game harder.  play solo. don't use scrolls and play solo. whatever.

 

the developer has said, literal hundreds o' times (am not being hyperbolic,) potd is not balanced.  any efforts we get from obsidian to balance is gravy, 'cause leaving a handful o' disgruntled hardcore fans, half o' whom will be disgruntled no matter what obsidian does to balance, is unlikely to keep josh and obsidian owners from sleeping at night.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gizmo]

But why release when the game is not ready. Difficulty is an important part of the game play experience. 

Just a guess... but this way, the difficulty tweaks are (or might be) an optional patch for only those that demand it. 

[z_liquid]

Though only a small percentage plays PotD, those who do play it are some of Obsidian's most dedicated fans. Someone who starts Deadfire on PotD has most likely bought and played through Pillars 1 and all of its expansions, and probably has already shelled out for Deadfire and all of its DLC. Those are the kind of fans that you really don't want to displease.

[dunehunter]

Though only a small percentage plays PotD, those who do play it are some of Obsidian's most dedicated fans. Someone who starts Deadfire on PotD has most likely bought and played through Pillars 1 and all of its expansions, and probably has already shelled out for Deadfire and all of its DLC. Those are the kind of fans that you really don't want to displease.

Well I think with all the OP class/abilities we have now, it is kinda hard to make a challenging PoTD playthrough even they add a few more enemy per encounter. I’d rather nerf the OP things instead.

 

I soloed the beta with a few classes/combos, some are nerfed, some still remain super op.

Edited May 6, 2018 by dunehunter

[z_liquid]

 

Though only a small percentage plays PotD, those who do play it are some of Obsidian's most dedicated fans. Someone who starts Deadfire on PotD has most likely bought and played through Pillars 1 and all of its expansions, and probably has already shelled out for Deadfire and all of its DLC. Those are the kind of fans that you really don't want to displease.

Well I think with all the OP class/abilities we have now, it is kinda hard to make a challenging PoTD playthrough even they add a few more enemy per encounter. I’d rather nerf the OP things instead.

 

I soloed the beta with a few classes/combos, some are nerfed, some still remain super op.

 

Yeah, sure, but PotD still needs some blanket difficulty buffs. At least the devs have recognized it

[anameforobsidian]

Makes sense, after all they have a reputation to fight.  But it's going to delay my second play.

Edited May 6, 2018 by anameforobsidian

[Boeroer]

One thing though: if PotD is too easy that's a strong hint that all other difficulties will be too easy as well.

[Urthor]

Not necessarily, could just mean that POTD is merely hard with some attribute scaling formula and they haven't done a manual pass on the encounters.  Most important thing IMO is that Veteran is much more difficult than Hard, first game really suffered from PotD being PotD and hard being extremely easy, and normal being ???.    

[The Sharmat]

Though only a small percentage plays PotD, those who do play it are some of Obsidian's most dedicated fans. Someone who starts Deadfire on PotD has most likely bought and played through Pillars 1 and all of its expansions, and probably has already shelled out for Deadfire and all of its DLC. Those are the kind of fans that you really don't want to displease.

On the contrary those are the kinds of fans you can most afford to displease, because they have already bought your game and will continue to do so unless you release three or four stinkers in a row.

[omgFIREBALLS]

want harder difficulty? players can alway find ways to make a game harder.  play solo. don't use scrolls and play solo. whatever.

I can't speak for every PotD player (for sure there are those who enjoy soloing, for example) but I do not at all enjoy artificially gimping myself to create a challenge. I want it to mean that the mobs are now extra extra mean, and it is up to my skill and creativity to still defeat them through clever ability usage and outsmarting the AI. Games that create difficulty by making the hero(es) weaker in absolute terms (rather than relative) generally don't appeal to me. If on normal a monster has 100 health and I deal 10 damage, and they want it to require 20 hits to die on PotD, I want it to have 200 health, rather than myself to swing for 5 damage, if that makes sense.

 

This being said, and my other recent posts on the matter being said... if Josh indeed stated PotD would more or less deliberately not be balanced at release, as disappointing as such a stance is, it's still my own fault for missing the info and building expectations that were never meant to be met. However, I still have to agree that it would be better to leave it way too hard than way too easy, and then nerf it rather than buff it. Does anyone think PoE1 and its DLC's were designed with Triple Crown Solo in mind? Players simply found ways. What better proof even, that a build is broken, than it beating horribly overtuned PotD encounters?

 

So yeah, I take back most of my disappointment since it seems I was expecting something that was specifically stated to not be coming. However, if before release... if the devs could just find a few spare moments to take PotD from too easy to probably-too-hard, I'd very much appreciate it. If we're not getting the right balance, let's at least get the right kind of wrong balance. There's an anvil on the easy end now, so drop a piano on the hard.

[Ragnaroz]

One thing though: if PotD is too easy that's a strong hint that all other difficulties will be too easy as well.

From what I've seen so far, it's on par with Hard in PoE 1. The biggest reasons it seems easier are the vastly improved companion AI and the ability to see whether a quest or an area you're doing are above your level.

[Phlox]

I imagine that toggling level scaled content (only upwards) + expert mode (or trial of iron for the most adventurous) should compensate for that.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Phlox

[HAWmaro]

 

One thing though: if PotD is too easy that's a strong hint that all other difficulties will be too easy as well.

From what I've seen so far, it's on par with Hard in PoE 1. The biggest reasons it seems easier are the vastly improved companion AI and the ability to see whether a quest or an area you're doing are above your level.

 

can we disable the skull thing? it takes away most of the thrill of exploration. POE was a great with UI options hope this is the case with POE2.

[Lamppost in Winter]

can we disable the skull thing? it takes away most of the thrill of exploration. POE was a great with UI options hope this is the case with POE2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.

[HAWmaro]

Nice!!!

[Hooliganeyes]

Josh has said a number of times that PoTD is not a huge priority in the grand scheme of things. The fact is, not a huge population will actually ever finish a PoTD run. That being said, I believe it will get its due as the game goes on. I'll just play Veteran first, then maybe try to complete a 3 person party. 

[daven]

In the greater sort of, view of the game... does this mean they spread themselves too thin? Surely they should cut the features down and try finish the ones they have rather than add more and leave them unfinished?

[Reent]

I played POE 1 on release day - i wanted to play the whole night, i started with a druid: they changed druid and the tooltips were wrong, i wanted to play with spiritshift but not without informations. I restarted as a wizard - lost my spellbook because of the weapon/reload bug, had to restart... started as a ranger, but had a bug with the animal name... had to restart again, after that i managed to get to raedrics hold... but got the endless area load bug.

At that point i stopped playing and slept as normal - 6h down the drain.

 

After that the "too easy" made me first stop my "hard" party run and the "POTD" party run, i played solo honor mode POTD most of the time (one naked chanter run...), i really wanted to play with other characters for the banter, but it was simply too easy and too many fights to accept easy fights.

 

 

So, bugs make for a crappy start, "too easy" makes a boring game...