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What's the general consensus about the current rest system?


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Weird that the ships crew would eat and get paid more than once a day just because the "away team" is, but whatever. :shrugz:

No, sorry if I wasnt clear. I'm pretty sure the crew only eats once in a day, but if your roaming the map and rest spamming then they will potential of consume more than you are gathering. So, if you're frugal with rest and use time wisely you will make more money because your costs will be smaller than the sum of the things you gather. If you spam rest you'll gather less in a game day, and the crew will still eat and need to be paid. They only eat and are paid once in a game day though. As far as I can tell, anyway.

 

Edit: they dont consume much. So I doubt they can eat more than you can afford, but you will make more money and gather more resources if you arent resting all the time. The only 2 reasons to rest are to replenish your empower resources and remove injury, anyway. Your health, spell/ability, etc are all replenished between encounters now.

Edited by Ganrich
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How does the game choose the food the crew will eat? Is there a priority system so that they will eat the hardtack first and leave better food for when there is no other option? What if I somehow run out of other food, will the use the "Captain's Banquet"?

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How does the game choose the food the crew will eat? Is there a priority system so that they will eat the hardtack first and leave better food for when there is no other option? What if I somehow run out of other food, will the use the "Captain's Banquet"?

I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that they will consume the food and liquid in succession from Left to Right in the Crew inventory list. Pretty sure that was how it worked when I tested it out after that first update introduced the ship stuff, but haven't touched that since. So I may be wrong or remembering incorrectly.

Edited by Enduin
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How does the game choose the food the crew will eat? Is there a priority system so that they will eat the hardtack first and leave better food for when there is no other option? What if I somehow run out of other food, will the use the "Captain's Banquet"?

Your ship has an inventory for food. You stock it with different stuff for them to eat. Some of it has an effect on morale (positive and negative, I believe), and stuff like Hardtack (which is very abundant) has no effect. It's part of the crew morale gameplay while simultaneously used for your party's resting meals and the bonuses you gain from food.

 

Cooking will be much more widely used in Deadfire than PoE1 IMHO. Just from what ive seen in beta it is has a larger variety of uses, and doesnt require a quick inventory slot for the bonus. You can feed your crew, use it on party members when resting, AND eat it before/during combat.

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It is a question of taste, I guess. (...)

 

With this system, a mage of level 5 will be able to cast "50 bounding missiles" or "50 fireballs" by day !!... It's ridiculous.

 

I understand that Obsidian love the bioware fans (they're numerou$$$...), but as for me, I just sent an email to GOG to cancel my pre-order.

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So you can choose and rearrange the items? Good.

 

I wonder if there is any quest/dungeon that will lock the party away for a day or two. Better be prepared just in case or they may try to find out where I keep the good stuff. :p

Do note as Ganrich stated that your inventory and the ships inventory is separate. You have to actively take food and drink out of your inventory and add it to the ships holds which they will then consume. So the ship's crew won't be eating anything unless you specifically give it to them.

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So you can choose and rearrange the items? Good.

 

I wonder if there is any quest/dungeon that will lock the party away for a day or two. Better be prepared just in case or they may try to find out where I keep the good stuff. :p

In the currrent beta, food is only consumed while you're sailing.  If you're on foot, only daily wages are consumed.  This is a recent change that I think they're sticking with.

Edited by bonarbill
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Do note as Ganrich stated that your inventory and the ships inventory is separate. You have to actively take food and drink out of your inventory and add it to the ships holds which they will then consume. So the ship's crew won't be eating anything unless you specifically give it to them.

 

That's perfect for me, regardless of which order they choose to eat.

 

 

In the currrent beta, food is only consumed while you're sailing.  If you're on foot, only daily wages are consumed.  This is a recent change that I think they're sticking with.

 

Good to know. But I wouldn't mind if they consumed food while I was on land.

Edited by InsaneCommander

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Weird that the ships crew would eat and get paid more than once a day just because the "away team" is, but whatever. :shrugz:

No, sorry if I wasnt clear. I'm pretty sure the crew only eats once in a day, but if your roaming the map and rest spamming then they will potential of consume more than you are gathering. So, if you're frugal with rest and use time wisely you will make more money because your costs will be smaller than the sum of the things you gather. If you spam rest you'll gather less in a game day, and the crew will still eat and need to be paid. They only eat and are paid once in a game day though. As far as I can tell, anyway.

 

Edit: they dont consume much. So I doubt they can eat more than you can afford, but you will make more money and gather more resources if you arent resting all the time. The only 2 reasons to rest are to replenish your empower resources and remove injury, anyway. Your health, spell/ability, etc are all replenished between encounters now.

 

no need to apologize as you were clear the first time.  

 

the thing is, empowers is, well, powerful.  as all deadfire character active abilities, regardless o' class, is per encounter, the most obvious difference for the player 'tween trash mob encounters and boss fights is gonna be a willingness to utilize empowers.  in deadfire, wizards has no reason to save a third level spell against a pack o' starving wolves.  is no need to hoard abilities as they is all per encounter and replenish within moments o' the end o' combat.  but empowers is a per-rest resource, and empowers is having the potential to make difficult encounters easy and seeming insurmountable encounters doable. given the force multiplier which is empowers, the typical deadfire player will hoard their final empower much the way a mid-level pnp d&d wizard would hoard his last fireball spell. 

 

fly in the ointment: hardtack is cheap.

 

yeah, various foods provide nifty rest bonuses, but few such bonuses is superior to every party member being able to utilize one empower (or two as there is ways to exploit per-encounter empowerment) during every encounter.  give every party member hardtack and rest following every encounter is doable and inexpensive.  druids utilizing empowered returning storm and wizards doing the empowered fireball bit every encounter is not how the game is current balanced.  the main reason Gromnir will not resort to repeated hardtack rests is 'cause is a cheese tactic and is clear exploitive.  however, from a practical perspective, am recognizing how costly it is to maintain a ship (or ships) and the calendar advances mighty fast if one resorts to excessive resting.  clearing a largeish deadfire map might take a half day of game time without resting, but if one were to rest after every encounter, many days would pass 'ccording to the game calendar. 

 

whether at sea or in port, it is reasonable to expect one would need pay the ship's crew, and am predicting our personal crew is gonna be large and glutinous by midway through the game.  daily wages for an elite ship's crew, and a steady supply o' rum, is gonna become expensive if Gromnir forces the calendar to leap forward with every combat encounter.  

 

even so, your explanation were fine.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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It is a question of taste, I guess. (...)

 

With this system, a mage of level 5 will be able to cast "50 bounding missiles" or "50 fireballs" by day !!... It's ridiculous.

 

I understand that Obsidian love the bioware fans (they're numerou$$$...), but as for me, I just sent an email to GOG to cancel my pre-order.

Fair enough. There are plenty beta videos so you can check how spell casting system works. While you need to be mindful of what spells you use per encounter, and their power tends to be balanced with casting time (and by that a danger of being interrupted) you will be using spells on regular basis.
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So you can choose and rearrange the items? Good.

 

I wonder if there is any quest/dungeon that will lock the party away for a day or two. Better be prepared just in case or they may try to find out where I keep the good stuff. :p

In the currrent beta, food is only consumed while you're sailing.  If you're on foot, only daily wages are consumed.  This is a recent change that I think they're sticking with.

 

meh then there is no real reason not to rest after every fight with hardtack... and here I was starting to think the new system could work. Unless their Pay is a huge cost which I doubt honestly.

Edited by HAWmaro
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It is a question of taste, I guess. (...)

 

With this system, a mage of level 5 will be able to cast "50 bounding missiles" or "50 fireballs" by day !!... It's ridiculous.

 

I understand that Obsidian love the bioware fans (they're numerou$$$...), but as for me, I just sent an email to GOG to cancel my pre-order.

 

A wizard of level 5 or lvl 20 can cast exactly 2 bounding missiles or 2 Fireballs per encounter - 3 if he uses Empower.

 

It doesn't matter how many spells he can cast per day because "per day" means nothing in Deadfire's encounter design (it only matters for your resources like food, drink and money which will get eaten away by your ship crew if you rest too often).

 

You completely didn't understand how the new system works and what its limitations are. Actually spellcasters like wizard, druid and priest were much more gamebreaking and potentially powerful in PoE than they are now because you can't spam spells anymore in tough encounters. Balancing them is a lot easier now.

 

Based on this fuzzy and wrong picture you made up in your head you cancelled your order because you somehow feel offended - while throwing out baseless accusations.

 

Must you really get into such a huff? It's overhasty and irrational.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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fighting is gonna be the primary source o' player wealth accumulation.  insofar as john d. rockefeller aspirations is concerned, time spent fighting should be considered as +.  time spent resting and world map travel is -.  travel is functional necessary as once all fighting (revenue generating opportunities) on map A is exhausted, the player needs move to map B or C as is no s&p 500 investments to be made-- money does not beget money in deafire as it does in rl.  resting, on the other hand, is o' no monetary benefit as during such times you incur expenses without generating income or opening up new income opportunities.  sure, rest is gonna be necessary 'cause as we already stated, fighting is the primary source o' wealth accumulation.  the player and the party will become injured and exhaust empower opportunities.  resting will be essential... so one may continue to win fights and generate income.

 

depending on how extravagant one outfits their fleet, per day costs o' ship management could become significant.  am doubting a dedicated completionist will be over burdened by ordinary resting so as to remove injury status and to replenish infrequent utilized empowers. however, am predicting, based on what we has seen of ship management in the beta, frequent resting will result in a not insignificant drain on monetary resources.  expenses will continue to accrue even if the player is involved in activities which produce no income. no fighting = no income.  

 

as an aside, one suspects meta knowledge o' the world map is gonna serious alter the player's income dynamic.  first time players, particularly the completionists, will no doubt feel an urge to explore the entirety o' the world map so is no fog o' war remaining.  laugh in the face o' the ancient cartographer's warning: hic sunt dracones. once a player knows where is every shipwreck and haunted island and whatnot, there will be far less wasteful world map travel to empty campaign coffers. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Balancing them is a lot easier now.

The spellcasters can cast their most powerful spells at each encounter, without thinking about the next encounter... But they're "more balanced" ?!?

 

Must you really get into such a huff? It's overhasty and irrational.

 

POE1 >> health / endurance + per rest / per encounter.

POE2 >> "Auto-restore HP & MP".

 

I don't want burn 45€ for a "sequel of dragon age".

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Yes. It's more balanced because the encounter output is predictable for every class.

 

Old system involves hoarding combat resources for spellcasters, dumping it all at once for important fights, then resting to get it all back. There isn't even a pretence of balance under that system.

Edited by Voss
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Balancing them is a lot easier now.

The spellcasters can cast their most powerful spells at each encounter, without thinking about the next encounter... But they're "more balanced" ?!?

 

Must you really get into such a huff? It's overhasty and irrational.

 

POE1 >> health / endurance + per rest / per encounter.

POE2 >> "Auto-restore HP & MP".

 

I don't want burn 45€ for a "sequel of dragon age".

 

 

Well, Boeroer is right, here.

 

With the old system, if you ended up in a pickle, you could just as easily rest, get all your abilities back and rock it with casting perhaps three to four times your strongest spells. And that is without giving much thought to the lower levels spells and abilities.

 

 

That is the strength of spell casters for you.

 

They would often dictate the direction an encounter would take just by virtue of having all their abilities saved up for that one encounter. But now, with the new system, every encounter can be crafted with a much more consistent challenge throughout since the developers know more or less what you will most likely have in store for any given encounter you will be running into. Indeed, imagine now high level content, like dragons, for example. Without the ability to have those ninth level spells and be able to cast them so many times, you will have to consider much more closely how you allocate your resources in every encounter rather than try and keep as much resources as you can and perhaps just ending up resting anyway because of health or other considerations. It avoids to have the casters be sitting ducks all the time because you do not want to rest too many times and thus save their abilities consistently.

 

 

Pillars I, even in Path of the Damned is not that difficult, especially if you have those high level spells and abilities in store for the encounter and plenty of them at that. It trivializes even some fights.

 

It is not for nothing that the developers, if I recall correctly, stated there would be hopefully way less or even zero thrash encounters just for the sake of spending your resources on them, so the later fights would be more difficult.

 

 

Anyway, old school games do have their charms, but I still believe that in a videogame, the way Deadfire is right now is a step in the right direction.

 

You should honestly not compare it to JRPG or Dragon Age, for that matters. There will still be plenty for you to enjoy, I am sure of it. But if you hesitate, at least keep an eye on it after launch and watch some play it. You might get entice somehow ! :p

Edited by Occursus
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Bla bla bla bla....

 

This isn't a very good response to any argument, you know - regardless of merit.

 

Nor does it engender any sympathy from whomever it is you're trying to convince.

Edited by Skazz
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Yes. It's more balanced because the encounter output  (...)

 

Bla bla bla bla....

 

In POE, mage, druid and priest are the most powerful classes.

 

In POE2, they will be even more powerful.

 

 

They will not.

 

In fact, quite the contrary, according to some feedbacks.

 

You have to consider the fact that casting a spell in Deadfire takes generally longer. Thus, even if you have all the time all your abilities up, you will not be able to consistently utilize all of them, all at once, so easily. Also, if I am not mistaken, the power level of spells has been tweak with the new format in mind. Thus, if spells do have a great impact, they will not have the exact same impact they did in Pillars I, to the same extent, that is.

 

You seem to also underestimate or underappreciate the fact that in Pillars I you could hoard spells for just one encounter and basically start nuking the enemies for a very long time before running out of juice.

 

I mean, just think about it for a second. You could literally, at lower levels, cast multiple times the equivalent of a Grease spells, like four to five times, depending on a few things. But you will not have four to five casts of it in Deadfire. You will have less. If you can cast it more often throughout the day, without resting, it does not mean anything since each and every encounter is its own island unto itself.

 

In each and every encounter, the Deadfire’s caster is less powerful than its counterpart in Pillars I, I’d wager, because a spell caster is as powerful as his ability to utilize spells. Thus, having more of them and being able to cast them quicker means Pillars I casters were most likely stronger than their counterparts in Deadfire, all things considered.

Edited by Occursus
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