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What's the general consensus about the current rest system?


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I like the components of the system overall(using food at rest, empower as a concept etc...) but I think they're put together in a way that kinda the entire thing pointless, my main grip is generally the abundance of food to which point Injurys don't meaning anything, I know they want us to value food buffs enough not to rest spam but from the beta and the streams I saw that doesn't seem to be the case, I just don't see myself ever going into a fight with an injury now which again makes them pointless and not to beat a dead horse but that migth've not been the case with the health/endurance system. But I think injurys could work too with a better ressource balance.

 

My personal fix during my playthrough on the 8th would be to ignore hardtack as a resting ressource as a personal challenge in order to add more of a ressource mangement aspect to the system.  

 

So what's everybody else opinion about this?

Edited by HAWmaro
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Since I haven't played it I don't have an opinion on it but what everyone's ignoring is crew is eating the same food and it effects their morale so there might be some resource management in there somewhere if you want a high morale crew...I guess.

 

One plus side of it is everyone will use food(prolly craft them also) which many might have ignored in Pillars 1. Also companions having fav foods could have been nice little addition(like in FFXV) which I assume is not the case in Deadfire.

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Uh it is fine.  You definitely will not rest every injury or just use food like it is going out of style for a couple reasons.

First, one injury is not THAT bad, that character can still be effective.  Two injuries.... ehhh.... ehhh.... maybe you want to rest.  Three?  You better be hitting that rest button stat.  So maybe if the whole party had one injury I would rest, but 1-3 people with one?  Nah.

 

Second, food isn't "rare" but it isn't that common either, and you also need it for your crew.... every single day.  So a crew of ten equals ten food consumed every day no matter what.  I think ten was the minimum to fully crew the basic starter ship, and they can become injured and need backups.  So you want extra crew too.

 

Third, food isn't that rare, but good buff food with really nice bonuses? Yeah, those are rare, and very very expensive/limited quantity in stores. You aren't going to want to use them on a whim.

 

Fourth, you could elect to not feed your crew to save food for your party.  I just hope you like mutiny.

Edited by Karkarov
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Wait what?! I played through the beta multiple times and have never rested so far - only once to get a resting bonus from the inn in the starting village. Until now I didn't know that you can use food on rests in the wilderness ... I thought the food is only for your ship crew :facepalm:

 

Because the health/endurance system was replaced by a health system I think I will not rest very often ... only if  I couldn't avoid an injury or I want a specific bonus (food or resting bonus).

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Uh it is fine.  You definitely will not rest every injury or just use food like it is going out of style for a couple reasons.

 

First, one injury is not THAT bad, that character can still be effective.  Two injuries.... ehhh.... ehhh.... maybe you want to rest.  Three?  You better be hitting that rest button stat.  So maybe if the whole party had one injury I would rest, but 1-3 people with one?  Nah.

 

Second, food isn't "rare" but it isn't that common either, and you also need it for your crew.... every single day.  So a crew of ten equals ten food consumed every day no matter what.  I think ten was the minimum to fully crew the basic starter ship, and they can become injured and need backups.  So you want extra crew too.

 

Third, food isn't that rare, but good buff food with really nice bonuses? Yeah, those are rare, and very very expensive/limited quantity in stores. You aren't going to want to use them on a whim.

 

Fourth, you could elect to not feed your crew to save food for your party.  I just hope you like mutiny.

Well most injurys are still worse than the +2 might or similar buffs the average food seems to give (the rare food is obviously gonna be left for bosses) so I see no reason to not remove them with one of the hundreds hardtacks you find around. Although you make fair point about the case when asingle character in the party is injured, I dunno though I guess we'll see on the 8th.

Edited by HAWmaro
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I feel the system is very fluid and interesting. You don't need to micro to eat food anymore, and there seems to be plenty of it in comparison to Pillars 1.

 

I don't think the resting system in Pillars 1 added much. There were always plenty of supplies, so you didn't really need to care about casting spells in tough fights. And if you really were out of supplies, all you had to do was run to town and back to fill yourself up, which just added unnecessary delay. The new system looks better than the old to me.

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It is not amazing, but it never has been. I won’t be 100% sure until I play a full game, but I believe Deadfire’s resting to be the best implimantation of it in this style of game (IE, PoE1).

 

While food was powerful in PoE1 I had to go out of my way to use it - I am sure Solo runners feel differently, but I beat twice the game without eating food, as it was fiddly to use and not necessary. I like the new system, as food is valuable and you will use it in regular intervals. It might also encourage me better not to rest unless good food is very very easy to find. Feeding with hardtack doesn’t seem appealing too me - I will certainly go for bonuses, giving failure (being knocked out in combat) meaning it never really had before.

 

As the same food will be used both for crew and your team I doubt of good food will be such a valuable resource as I hope it would be. We will see.

 

It’s not perfect - resting system still seems to be there, just because it always has been there, but it seems better implimented than before.

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I think that the old endurance/health system was a smart one. Better than the current one where healing is too powerful.

 

But apparently it was too smart for some people - so here we are: with no consensus at all. ;)

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I think that the old endurance/health system was a smart one. Better than the current one where healing is too powerful.

 

But apparently it was too smart for some people - so here we are: with no consensus at all. ;)

Yeah, the endurance health split was a good feature, though I wish supplies were a more valuable to actually make good use of that. Resting wasn't really a tough choice at all.

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Injury/Health is a decent replacement for Health/Endurance from PoE in theory, but right now Injuries just don't play a large enough role in the game. So the need to rest really isn't there for a lot of players. The current system completely loses out on that extra layer of simulation of your character's overall health over the course of several fights and dmg they've received. 

 

While Health in PoE was possibly a bit too granular and nebulous for many players to understand, I believe Josh has sited confusion over Health Bar/Number and the Endurance Bar/Number being too similar for some to fully understand. Have a fixed number of Injuries that fundamentally operate differently from the in battle Health makes sense, but right now barely serves a role and make resting kind of an after thought for many players.

 

Long term party health management just doesn't really seem like a very important thing in Deadfire from my experience in the Beta through several different builds on Veteran.

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Maybe, but conceptually Injury/Health is something much more easily grasped and understandable system by just looking at without the need for a very detailed explanation. Health/Endurance while effective a system for simulating short term and long term health status did carry along with it a somewhat complicated calculations for how they were derived and how they were presented was visually confusing for some both being two bars effectively. But right now Injuries are just too infrequent an occurrence being relegated to Traps and Knockouts only and the fact that you can only acquire 3 with your 4th and final resulting in death is too few for anyone to really allow add up.

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Yes but acquiring injuries randomly in battle like tyranny doesn't feel good at all because the players doesn't have much control on minimising them through good tactics.

It wasn't random in Tyranny it was the result of a Knockout or on harder difficulties your Health going below a certain low point. That's exactly the kind of thing good tactics prevents. And it wouldn't be random here either.

 

If Injuries had a % chance of being obtained when your character was hit with a Crit or High Dmg attack that was > than X% of your overall Health you can totally mitigate that through tactics and strategy. There is a wealth of active/passive buffs, debuffs, abilities, equipment, weapons and consumables that can help reduce the chance of Crits and overall Dmg you receive directly or indirectly. Not to mention your overall strategy and how well you position your party members, protecting your most vulnerable characters and choosing to eliminate or control enemies.

 

The whole point is to simulate long term health and vitality, taking a large amount of damage and major hits over the course of several battles is going to effect that. That was the whole point of Health in PoE, the only way you could prevent it from decreasing was by preventing your character from getting hit in the first place, with only a couple abilities in the whole game actually capable of recovering a very small amount of Health back. So I don't see how obtaining an Injury or two through battle is somehow worse than losing a substantial chunk of Health in PoE.

 

This wouldn't be like Head Shots in Battletech.

Edited by Enduin
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yeah but if those ferquent injurys carry any sort of debuff like the current ones they'll just push people to rest after every fight because hardtack is everywhere so that isn't ideal either. If like health they are just a measure of how close you are to dying without any debuffs then maybe it could work sicne fighting with them won't be a huge disadvantage.

Edited by HAWmaro
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I mean that's kind of what the current system already does. I doubt many people are willing to suffer more than 1 injury at a time, if that, and instead choose to just immediately rest after acquiring one. That kind of response would be a lot harder if the frequency of injuries was much great than the current Trap/Knockout system which is decidedly infrequent. Hardtack may be in abundance but possibly not so great that you can rest to clear out injuries after every single combat.

 

If the max accumulated injuries was higher and the penalties much smaller, but increased as you gained more, that for me would be a much more compelling system than the current one. A few injuries that only take off a minor amount of this or that isn't a big concern to me and would be something I personally would let accumulate until it became a liability or major risk to the character or party in order to conserve the good food I have.

 

That some may be able to abuse Hardtack is not my concern. I get why Obsidian makes these decisions and changes and what that means for the larger consumer base and I respect that as much as I can, but ultimately my interests lay in making what systems there are the most interesting to me and my experience. I want to rest with good food for good bonuses and I don't want to waste those resources, so the fact that Hardtack may be abundant doesn't really matter to me. If I somehow find myself is real dire straits I may resort to Hardtack to keep myself afloat, but the way I operate and play the game that kind of temptation won't work. End of the day I do not care about how others may cheese the system as long as it works for me. There will always be any number of ways you can cheat the system and cheese your way through the game. You cannot control how everyone will play. That some do not want to engage with this kind of system is fine. Plenty of others will. For those who can't control themselves, I get that, but nothing is perfect.

 

Right now Injuries and Resting from my perspective is a system that doesn't really work for or create much meaning or interesting choices for anyone, the changes I think should/could be made may not improve it for everyone, but it would certainly improve it for me and likely a fair number of others. 

Edited by Enduin
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well I can see and respect your point, I 100% agree that the system isn't interesting now and honestly, I'd prefer a better one or no resting at all. Am just not sure I agree with your vision for fixing it but hey to each his own.

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the current rest system may be abused if you don't care about ship management costs and you are willing to hardtack rest after every/most encounter(s).

 

the previous rest system were exploitable if you were willing to find an inn following every battle no matter how long the trek back to town.

 

we didn't have a major issue with poe resting save for our general issues with the silly and impossible-to-balance-for quasi-vancian casters o' poe.  were prohibitive for developers to predict how well rested were a particular player's party casters for anything save boss battles.  a well rested 10th wizard with all spells available to him were a complete different level o' power than a 10th level wizard down to his last level 2 spell slot. unnecessary design hurdle.

 

we do not have a problem with the current rest system save for acknowledgement o' the potential for encounter-hardtack rest-encounter cycles with players effective having an empower opportunity (or two for priests with seal spells) during every combat encounter... but as Gromnir don't have any intention o' utilizing such overt rules exploits, is a non-issue.  

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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the current rest system may be abused if you don't care about ship management costs and you are willing to hardtack rest after every/most encounter(s).

 

the previous rest system were exploitable if you were willing to find an inn following every battle no matter how long the trek back to town.

When you put it that way, the new system sounds very much superior. Deadfire system has an in-game gold cost for resting a lot (resource management). Pillars 1 system had a real-time cost (meh!)

 

Though I'm afraid the gold costs for resting in Deadfire turn out to be very minimal.

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the current rest system may be abused if you don't care about ship management costs and you are willing to hardtack rest after every/most encounter(s).

 

the previous rest system were exploitable if you were willing to find an inn following every battle no matter how long the trek back to town.

When you put it that way, the new system sounds very much superior. Deadfire system has an in-game gold cost for resting a lot (resource management). Pillars 1 system had a real-time cost (meh!)

 

Though I'm afraid the gold costs for resting in Deadfire turn out to be very minimal.

 

based on the little 'mount o' ship management costs we has seen from deadfire, am believing the money costs for excessive resting could be exorbitant.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I think that the old endurance/health system was a smart one. Better than the current one where healing is too powerful.

 

But apparently it was too smart for some people - so here we are: with no consensus at all. ;)

Ah. yes. emdurance/health shall be missed. I still prefer current resting system over old "supplies". 

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I cant really say at the moment. If the food cost is reasonable its a fine system. If they are desperate to force everyone into their, everyone fights hurt fantasy land and you will play our game our way or no way , then I am totally against it.

 

Cant figure out why rest spam hurt anyone in a single player game. Cant figure out really why they spent so much time and effort on nerfing things in a single player game. Oh my god instead of fixing the load times or the crashes lets make sure this class is just as mediocre as all the rest of the classes. Smashing Idea! Dilly Dilly.

Edited by Tattyblue
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Uh it is fine.  You definitely will not rest every injury or just use food like it is going out of style for a couple reasons.

 

First, one injury is not THAT bad, that character can still be effective.  Two injuries.... ehhh.... ehhh.... maybe you want to rest.  Three?  You better be hitting that rest button stat.  So maybe if the whole party had one injury I would rest, but 1-3 people with one?  Nah.

 

Second, food isn't "rare" but it isn't that common either, and you also need it for your crew.... every single day.  So a crew of ten equals ten food consumed every day no matter what.  I think ten was the minimum to fully crew the basic starter ship, and they can become injured and need backups.  So you want extra crew too.

 

Third, food isn't that rare, but good buff food with really nice bonuses? Yeah, those are rare, and very very expensive/limited quantity in stores. You aren't going to want to use them on a whim.

 

Fourth, you could elect to not feed your crew to save food for your party.  I just hope you like mutiny.

 

1.Josh said hardtack is very common in the game.

 

2. In beta you can just use hardtack on injuried teammate and use NOTHING on non-injuried one, I dunno if this is intended but this means u can rest whenever u want without waste food on healthy teammates.

 

This results in you can spam resting a lot in the game.

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