The Political Quinceañera Thread

[HoonDing]

Maybe build a wall around every school.

[Zoraptor]

The thought of cops going door to door inspecting gun storage spaces makes me lol.

 

It's a once per decade 'inspection' here. It's in soft quotes because every inspection I've had has taken about 10s for the actual inspection, they literally check you have a trigger lock of some sort and keep ammo/ bolt and gun locked separately. The entire process involving the 'police'- usually a cushy job for retired police- takes five minutes including the interview*. Ten, if you offer them tea and biscuits. It's more exacting (though not necessarily impossible) if you have red flags like prior drug use, but that's kind of the point. Different culture though, our police don't even carry firearms routinely.

 

*The questions are pretty much literally "You [or the person you're refereeing] aren't a homicidal maniac, are you?" level.

[Gfted1]

Or drones and robodogs. The students and staff could be identified via facial recognition software and any person not in the datatbase that enters school properties....BAM....a face full of pepper spray.

[Malcador]

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

[Amentep]

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

 

Eventually education will probably be moved to an online delivery format.

[Malcador]

 

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

Eventually education will probably be moved to an online delivery format.

I prefer my dystopian nightmare

[Chilloutman]

 

 

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

Eventually education will probably be moved to an online delivery format.

I prefer my dystopian nightmare

 

 

I demand direct internet to brain download of knoweledge

[Guard Dog]

 

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

 

Eventually education will probably be moved to an online delivery format.

 

You know I'm surprised this isn't commonplace now. 

[smjjames]

 

 

It will probably come to that, first scanners at the doors that can raise an alarm then Reapers orbiting the school.

 

Eventually education will probably be moved to an online delivery format.

 

You know I'm surprised this isn't commonplace now. 

 

 

Commonplace for colleges. Though not all classes obviously.

[injurai]

It's becoming very common in early undergrad classes. Some students start their time at uni off-campus and take all online classes for a period of time. Older large campuses typically have satellite campuses, but those aren't being invested in anymore.

[Guard Dog]

His Public Defenders have become targets on social media now apparently. There is no sense in that. They have a job to do, and a rather thankless one at that. They didn't choose him as their client.  

[smjjames]

Pretty sure that happens with every notorious or particularily despicable criminal, someone has to defend them because our justice gives the accused a chance to get a public defender or defense lawyer.

[redneckdevil]

 

 

 

 

Gun Owner "My Gun Didn't Kill Anyone" Position

From my viewpoint over here in merry olde England, it isn't so much about "yes, your gun didn't kill anyone", it's that it seems to damned easy for any idiot to get hold of them over there.

I can point to many friends around the world and say "Yes, they are competent, intelligent people who can be responsible with a car, with a gun, what have you." But I can also point to a whole bunch more of people who are just idiots I wouldn't trust with a stapler, let alone some form of automatic weaponry. But if they are in the good ol US of A...

That is the problem right there. So how do you protect the responsible people from the irresponsible people without violating civil rights? If the freedom of the individual is the paramount concern then I really don't see how we can. And if it isn't a concern, well there is always repression, confiscations, concentration camps, forced hospitalization and just making people disappear.

 

The difference between here and most other countries is the guns are already here. Millions of them. Billions perhaps. Making them suddenly illegal changes nothing. It was illegal for that bastard to bring a gun on school campus yesterday. It was illegal for him to even BE on that campus. It was illegal to use a smoke bomb, pull the fire alarm, and certainly to shoot people. None of those broken laws stopped him. So for gun control to work the government has to go and confiscate them. How do you think that will go?

Your previous post aside, that's a completely valid point about responsible people vs the irresponsible people. You say that regulating who can have what guns (outside of the really heavy weapon stuff only the military can use) will just lead to a slippery slope, then what are your ideas for solutions? It seems like the exact same ideological impasse between the two of us (though at least we can agree to disagree without going all knives at each others throats) is part of the problem in that neither side has solutions the other likes, though it often seems like one side often does not want solutions at all.

 

I've heard about regulating guns the same way we regulate cars might be a solution, though I'm not sure how that would work exactly since the function of a gun and a car are completely different.

Honestly I don't know. Raising the age of full legal majority nationwide to 21 makes sense to me. It could have prevented the shooter from buying his weapon legally. However much of a hindrance that is. Force hospitalization of people deemed mentally ill sounds very Nazi-like to me. Now people are having their freedom taken over a subjective standard that is way too likely to be abused. Infringing on individual rights is not the way to go either. Increasing the availability of mental health can't hurt but in they end the best system can only help the willing. Turning schools into armed camps does not strike me as the best way to go, although one armed teacher could have stopped this yesterday. Maybe plain clothes security, like Air Marshals for each campus. But even then they can't be everywhere at once.

How about doing away with "gun free" zones? I'm wondering if we have had any mass shootings in the past 20 years where people were allowed to be armed themselves?

[Guard Dog]

 

How about doing away with "gun free" zones? I'm wondering if we have had any mass shootings in the past 20 years where people were allowed to be armed themselves?

 

No one has shot up a police station lately have they? The "gun free zone" didn't deter this bastard did it? In fact it likely encouraged him. 

 

There is a reason why Shelby County is 3rd in the nation in home invasions but the rural surrounding areas have virtually none. You pull that s--t out here and you will be shot dead.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Guard Dog

[redneckdevil]

I'm looking it up and it's "weird". Sadly the everyday report counts mass family murders as a mass shootings and those count for 54% of their findings. Also they say that only 10% were in "no guns" places BUT 54% of those are the person's home and then the remaining 36% it says a good chunk was in "non-public' areas such as in closed offices and such, which even if allowed to carry guns in the area the jobs do not allow the guns to be carried during work hours which seems like a "no gun" zone though not "federal".

 

When trying to deal with public mass shootings, having half the data is from someone in the family killing their own family doesn't help.

Edited February 16, 2018 by redneckdevil

[Raithe]

Scientific American: 6 Things to Know About Mass Shootings in America

 

A US criminologist breaks a few things down...

Edited February 16, 2018 by Raithe

[Raithe]

"We should arm every teacher!"

 

"...Wait, you bastards won't even buy them enough pencils and printer ink... Now you got the budget for Glocks??"

[Malcador]

 

 

 

 

 

Gun Owner "My Gun Didn't Kill Anyone" Position

From my viewpoint over here in merry olde England, it isn't so much about "yes, your gun didn't kill anyone", it's that it seems to damned easy for any idiot to get hold of them over there.

I can point to many friends around the world and say "Yes, they are competent, intelligent people who can be responsible with a car, with a gun, what have you." But I can also point to a whole bunch more of people who are just idiots I wouldn't trust with a stapler, let alone some form of automatic weaponry. But if they are in the good ol US of A...

That is the problem right there. So how do you protect the responsible people from the irresponsible people without violating civil rights? If the freedom of the individual is the paramount concern then I really don't see how we can. And if it isn't a concern, well there is always repression, confiscations, concentration camps, forced hospitalization and just making people disappear.

 

The difference between here and most other countries is the guns are already here. Millions of them. Billions perhaps. Making them suddenly illegal changes nothing. It was illegal for that bastard to bring a gun on school campus yesterday. It was illegal for him to even BE on that campus. It was illegal to use a smoke bomb, pull the fire alarm, and certainly to shoot people. None of those broken laws stopped him. So for gun control to work the government has to go and confiscate them. How do you think that will go?

Your previous post aside, that's a completely valid point about responsible people vs the irresponsible people. You say that regulating who can have what guns (outside of the really heavy weapon stuff only the military can use) will just lead to a slippery slope, then what are your ideas for solutions? It seems like the exact same ideological impasse between the two of us (though at least we can agree to disagree without going all knives at each others throats) is part of the problem in that neither side has solutions the other likes, though it often seems like one side often does not want solutions at all.

 

I've heard about regulating guns the same way we regulate cars might be a solution, though I'm not sure how that would work exactly since the function of a gun and a car are completely different.

Honestly I don't know. Raising the age of full legal majority nationwide to 21 makes sense to me. It could have prevented the shooter from buying his weapon legally. However much of a hindrance that is. Force hospitalization of people deemed mentally ill sounds very Nazi-like to me. Now people are having their freedom taken over a subjective standard that is way too likely to be abused. Infringing on individual rights is not the way to go either. Increasing the availability of mental health can't hurt but in they end the best system can only help the willing. Turning schools into armed camps does not strike me as the best way to go, although one armed teacher could have stopped this yesterday. Maybe plain clothes security, like Air Marshals for each campus. But even then they can't be everywhere at once.

How about doing away with "gun free" zones? I'm wondering if we have had any mass shootings in the past 20 years where people were allowed to be armed themselves?

Have to guess several, just that no one was paranoid to arm themselves in a church or nightclub. Was a cop at this school, I believe, but he didn't engage with the shooter.

.

[Hurlshort]

Arming the teachers is just as dumb of an idea as banning guns.

[Guard Dog]

We have plain clothes Air Marshals on airplanes. Perhaps this idea could be used in schools.

 

It's no joke though, I went to a high school in rural North Florida. On any given day there were plenty rifles and shotguns on gun racks in vehicles in the parking lot. 90% of the boys had pocket knives while in class. No oe was ever shot or stabbed. It was unthinkable, This situation where lone nutjob decides to shoot up a school is a new thing. The guns have ALWAYS been here and used to be much easier to get and much less expensive. We went wrong somewhere. Blaming the hardware is not going to fix the root cause.

[Lexx]

Obviously the smarter idea is to arm the students. Just think about it, if one of them starts going postal, there are PLENTY other guns around to make an end to this quickly!

Edited February 16, 2018 by Lexx

[injurai]

Install false floors and make the students where yeezys with rfid chips in them. Problem solved. School uniforms for a new age.

[Guard Dog]

After a 30 minute perusal of the nations top newspapers and media outlets it seems gun control is the only solution everyone is talking about. Ironically had he rammed a car into 17 kids at a bus stop not one would be talking about banning cars... but whatever. In light of the turn in the conversation here is what everyone who wants that needs to do to make their "dream" a reality:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoFKskvSq4

[FlintlockJazz]

After a 30 minute perusal of the nations top newspapers and media outlets it seems gun control is the only solution everyone is talking about. Ironically had he rammed a car into 17 kids at a bus stop not one would be talking about banning cars... but whatever. In light of the turn in the conversation here is what everyone who wants that needs to do to make their "dream" a reality:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnoFKskvSq4

We had terrorists in the UK try to use vehicles to kill people, the effectiveness compared to firearms wasn't that great.  The guy would not have been able to get 17 kids with a bus, not unless they were all sat there in a line while high on drugs or something.  A driver's license is also required before you can go purchasing your death-vehicle, and questions have been asked and rules strengthened in reaction to vehicular deaths quite often even when it wasn't a deliberate attack but an accident (such as when a lorry mowed through a bunch of cars before the **** driver was too busy on his phone).

[Chilloutman]

UK is a joke law wise