No more salvage?

[thelee]

Recently got this on steam. Is there no more an option to salvage cards now that we have the collection? Looking at older threads, it looked like it was an important thing to be able to do for people who wanted to placate the RNG gods for farming for specific cards.

 

Is there any way to do this now? Deliberate change?

[Janzu]

You can still Salvage cards - You can do this by going to campaign mode via edit decks

[stbassy]

Isn't that salvaging the play-deck..... as opposed to salvaging from the collection / box ?

I believe the two are different. Unless if I've mistaken something.

[Ethics Gradient]

Isn't that salvaging the play-deck..... as opposed to salvaging from the collection / box ?

I believe the two are different. Unless if I've mistaken something.

 

You are somewhat correct.

 

In previous versions of the app, you could go to the Gallery/Vault/Collection to Salvage unwanted treasure cards to permanently remove them from your account in exchange for some gold.  Being able to chose cards to salvage is something that is not presently in v1.2.6.x.

 

The other Salvage during the post-game screen doesn't permanently remove cards from your Collection or "game box."  Instead of keeping those cards in your deck, you are essentially selling them back to the game.  In the process, they do not get destroyed or removed from the game permanently.  Think of it more like a post-game bonus if you scored a lot of boons during a scenario.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Ethics Gradient

[MrBishop]

So while we await an official response from the BAdler, salvaging as you knew it prior to 1.2.6 is gone. You can no longer manipulate the contents of your Collection. 

[Sogarth]

That's... completely ridiculous. It deliberately penalizes people who have opened lots of chests, because it makes it harder for them to get the good cards they've drawn. So after deciding to leave the F2P approach on Steam, the next decision was to make that platform even less appealing?

[Sogarth]

Also: if that had been announced beforehand, I would have salvaged my cards down to something a bit more manageable. Making a major change like this without announcing it first is rather inexcusable.

[Ripe]

So while we await an official response from the BAdler, salvaging as you knew it prior to 1.2.6 is gone. You can no longer manipulate the contents of your Collection. We may reconsider this but you can send your thoughts to  BAdler 

So basically, Treasure Chests are now worthless unless you want to get way too many junk cards. Good to know.

 

That also mean those 10 chests I got as a "compensation" for removing Quest Mode will remain unopened, making them no compensation at all. I'd rather be able to destroy cards I don't want for no gold then having no option to remove unwanted cards.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Ripe

[jumpthegun]

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/92897-please-bring-back-salvaging/

[thelee]

So while we await an official response from the BAdler, salvaging as you knew it prior to 1.2.6 is gone. You can no longer manipulate the contents of your Collection. We may reconsider this but you can send your thoughts to  BAdler 

 

I really appreciate the direct response but... I'm honestly astounded. I got the Obsidian Edition, which I understand already unlocks a lot (all?) of loot. I was opening lots of chests to try and get more of the rarer/better ones, but you're telling me instead I'm diluting the chance I'll ever pick up those rarer/better ones in the first place?

 

I guess now I'm juggling between wanting a "complimentary" copy in my unclaimed tab versus the risk of diluting my location decks with lots and lots of Smiths.

 

EDIT: and yep I sent a small note to BAdler

Edited June 21, 2017 by thelee

[thelee]

I mean, I guess Obsidian probably doesn't want any extreme RNG-gaming, but surely there's a compromise are of some sort?

 

Just a suggestion  off the top of my head: when selecting treasure cards for an adventure, card counts are normalized? So a card you have 1 copy of in collection counts as 1 copy, where as a card you have 5 copies of might only count for 2.5 or 3 (depending on granularity), possibly capping out at 3 or using some sort of log-scale normalization such that you asymptotically slow down how much a card copy is worth. (But the "real" count is still used when determining how many copies of a card you're allowed to have in your party.)

Edited June 21, 2017 by thelee

[Ethics Gradient]

capping out at 3 or using some sort ..

 

Capping should be where the treasure system should move towards in general.

 

If you were playing Pathfinder Adventures tabletop, and the host said: "Hey, I got twelve copies of Fire Sneeze on eBay and I'm just going to mix them into the box" you'd probably look at them like they were a little nutty.

 

Rather than treating Treasure Cards like a random assortment of add-on cards, they should have something of their own "Deck List" that puts an allowable limit on how many of each card you can possess, and sells off the extras.

[Hannibal_PJV]

I possibly capping out at 3 or using some sort of log-scale normalization such that you asymptotically slow down how much a card copy is worth.

Cappin would be good! Max it two or three. Then common cards would be like 3, rare 2 and legendary / epic one. Depending on how Many you own them. But it is easy to have 100 of some commons and I don't want to see always that common instead of some other all the time...

[MrBishop]

Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

 

4 Uncommon

3 Rare

2 Epic

1 Legendary

 

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

 

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

 

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.

[Hannibal_PJV]

Thanks for the info about the culling. So you more likely see more bad cards than before the culling was taken away, but not as bad as it first seems to be.

The automatic salvaging is actually good thing, not so interested in manually salvaging, and the cap seems logical (allthough not optimal).

I can live with this, but if I can hope I would like to manually select the upper limits and game could autosalvage depending on my own Numbers.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Hannibal_PJV

[thelee]

Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

 

4 Uncommon

3 Rare

2 Epic

1 Legendary

 

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

 

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

 

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.

 

Whew! Thanks for that response. Guess I can go back to buying lots of treasure chests! (Maybe I'll actually get a Paralyze for once for my mental-based Charlatan)

 

(edit: hey whaddya know, after using up all my gold to buy 8 treasure chests, the last one had a paralyze in it. the rng gods are kind today)

Edited June 21, 2017 by thelee

[Sogarth]

I think there would be fewer pitchforks if you guys actually told us that beforehand. Thanks!

[Dunesparrow]

Ummmm What the Hell??? I am very confused by this.

Does this apply to treasure cards in your collection prior to patch 1.2.6.X/Steam release/Account Merge ???

How does this new system, creation of the card pool for Adventures/Scenarios and the Stash/unclaimed interact together?

Could you please explain this in more detail?

Edited June 21, 2017 by Dunesparrow

[ylvglo]

I hope I'm reading that wrong, 'cause to me it sounds like you're removing extra legendries from our collection!? Am I not allowed to own more than one Unity of Iomedae, or Slaying Axe?

[Bullwinkle]

This is a terrible, terrible, terrible decision.

 

I don't want multiple copies of treasure cards. Treasure cards, uncommon or not, should be rare; something special when you find one, and more importantly, not so common that you dilute the chance of ever seeing cards from the base set. For this reason, I've culled all but one of any copy of a treasure card, regardless of rarity (with exceptions for spells and blessings). Now I don't object to a cap, but the inability to delete cards from my collection means that I'm stuck keeping anything I find, whether I want it or not? Let me control my own damn copy of the game. For Pete's sake, at least let me delete it, even if I don't get the pittance of gold I would otherwise.

 

Seriously, every decision being made is more evidence that the devs just don't really give a damn about mobile. And given the money, maybe they shouldn't. Still infuriating.

[Ripe]

Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

 

4 Uncommon

3 Rare

2 Epic

1 Legendary

 

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

 

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

 

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.

Well, that is still no good since most of the uncommon cards are not something that is worth having 4 copies of... I'd like to have 1 copy of them but no more. So my point about Treasure chests being worthless to me stand.

 

Actually, it's even worse: by removing extra cards I got and choose to keep you stole the content I PAID for!

Edited June 21, 2017 by Ripe

[Ethics Gradient]

Does this apply to treasure cards in your collection prior to patch 1.2.6.X/Steam release/Account Merge ???

 

How does this new system, creation of the card pool for Adventures/Scenarios and the Stash/unclaimed interact together?

 

Could you please explain this in more detail?

 

 

The Treasure Cull is a new system that lives behind the scenes, and is not connected to other in-game features like the Stash or Unclaimed tab.

Every time you log in, a couple of your treasure cards are compared against the maximums, and the extras are automatically salvaged for gold.

 

When @MrBishop mentioned that the cull would be a slow process, that's why.  If you have a lots of cards, it might take a hundred logins for the game to slowly go around pruning off extras.

[Snarfblat]

Wow. I posted a message on the forum and sent an email to support a week ago about a huge number of random cards being missing, support told me it was being looked into, and it turns out it was actually an intentional change from the start that you didn't bother telling anyone about? Even, it appears, your own support staff?

 

Not only that, it makes chests even worse. At least you could build a big pile of good cards even if the RNG wasn't giving you anything new. Now it just turns excess copies into a pittance of gold, while a previously culled collection gets clogged with the poor cards? Essentially, if I ever open another chest there is a very good chance it would end up decreasing the chances of finding cards I want in play.

 

Oh, and checking the game it didn't even drop most of the silently culled cards into the unclaimed. Because we need a bug on top.

[Borissimo]

I like the idea of capping cards — it's certainly easier to have the game salvage cards for you than to manually go into your vault and delete some of those 11 Foxes or whatever.

 

I also don't mind legendaries being capped at 1, though I sympathize with players who got used to having bunches of them and are now sad.

 

The problem with this system is that 4 copies of a card is A LOT. Most uncommon cards are not that great, so with this capping system, there will be way, way more crappy cards diluting the pool than anyone who used salvaging would have ever had on mobile. The game should still let players either (1) salvage individual cards, or (2) lower the cap size for uncommon and rare cards.

[stbassy]

Actually friends, there is a cap. In your collection you can have max:

 

4 Uncommon

3 Rare

2 Epic

1 Legendary

 

Everything else is automatically salvaged on the backend and a copy is just added to your unclaimed.

 

Note: Commons are cards found in the vanilla rise of the runelords and the amount of commons can't be modified and is based from the contents of the physical box.

 

The culling is actually a slow process depending on how many cards are in your collection prior to 1.2.6, but it's happening behind the scenes.

 

This is a bit better than no salvaging at all... but still inferior to the original manual-salvage option.

 

More importantly though:

- any reason for not sharing this information up front?

 

MOST importantly:

- as far as I can tell,.... no culling has occurred on my account. If the system is delete my cards, shouldn't it send me a pop-up message, and refund some gold? If it's just deleting them without gold-compensation, I'd feel that's a bit of a rip.

- ... and.. wouldn't this break my existing games and character decks? (If they happen to be using more than the new cap. That would be.. HORRIBLE... because, not only would my existing chars/saves be broken, but I can't create a new-game without the app crashing (there is a separate post about this). Meaning: I can't play this any more.

[BAdler]

Hey, everyone a few things regarding the salvaging:

• My apologies for not expressing this up front. It was something that we meant to discuss, but it fell through the cracks. That isn't a good excuse, but it is the truth. You can lay the blame on me for that one.
• Auto-salvaging should be giving you gold as compensation. So if your collection is losing treasure cards to auto-salvaging, you should be getting some gold from it. If you feel this isn't the case, please contact support@obsidian.net and they can work with you on the issue.
• There was always a hard cap in people's boxes even though it was never expressed in the UI. Mr Bishop can confirm, but I want to say that there was never more than three copies of any treasure card that was available in a campaign. This means, even if you had 12 Fire Sneezes, you would only ever see up to the cap in play, in any particular run.
• Allowing salvaging of some cards (treasure cards), but not others (campaign cards) was confusing and difficult to explain.
• New users were deleting cards from their collection without understanding that they were removing the ability to even find those cards in the future.

People that want more control of their campaign boxes will not be happy with this answer, but it was put into place to simplify the system. This answer will be a bit longer, so bear with me on this one.
 

For people that understand the rules of the physical game, adding and removing cards from the campaign box makes sense. You have a specific number of cards available in the campaign and adding or removing cards from the box allows you to adjust how many of those cards can be found while playing the game.

The problem is for people that have only played the digital version of the game. Those people have no concept of the box and it isn't something that is easily explained. Most folks didn't understand that the cards in their collection were just "potential" cards that they could find in the future. It isn't an easy thing to explain because there isn't much of an analog in most other digital card games. Most people who play these games understand the copies of cards in your collection to be the available cards you can build you deck with, but not as potential cards they can find.

I also saw a problem where people were salvaging treasure cards without understanding that that meant they would never see those cards again. They were assuming they were getting rid of a copy they had found, not the potential to ever find the card again. It was causing a large amount of confusion with newer players.

I spent a lot of time talking to people about the game and the campaign box before making this decision. It wasn't a decision I came to lightly and I feel that this is a simplification that is needed if we expect the game to grow in the future.

 

I completely understand the anger from people that want a greater control over their campaign boxes, but please understand that a main objective of mine when I got onto this project was to make the game easier to understand and more accessible to newcomers. I feel this change helps that goal at the expense of customization.

 

All of that being said, I am more than willing to work with the community to help create a system that works better for everyone. Some thoughts I had about this:

• Maybe we could add in something into the collection that allows people to remove a specific treasure card from consideration while building a location. So, for example, if you never want to see a specific card (Engineers Workgloves, or something), you can disable it from the collection.
• We can adjust the caps for treasure cards. If four uncommons is too much, we can lower it. If 1 legendary feels too punishing, we can raise it.

Even if you don't agree with why I asked for these changes I'm hoping you can understand why I asked for them.

Please continue sending additional feedback (unless it's telling me that I am a jackass... you can keep those).