Politics Episode 7: Remake of Episode 4

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

Nice to see that "new tone" in US politics is coming right along: http://fox42kptm.com/news/local/nebraska-democratic-party-official-ousted-after-controversial-audio-recording-surfaces

I'm glad she did the right thing according to what happened. Yes there is always ****, but I'm glad we still have people like her upholding the right protocol in this case.

 

Also am I the only one laughing my ass off about California's travel bans? Funny how everyone was up in arms and still are for Trump's travel bans, but it's okay for California to do so bc LGBT protection..... nevermind that the countries Trump is trying to ban for a bit is way worse towards LGBT community. Awww the hypocrisy is so funny af lmao.

 

Also BruceVC, I'll give u a reason why NO ONE gives a flying **** about Russia hacking the DNC and releasing untampered emails that didn't vote for Hillary. Wanna know why? Because in the end, all it was basically was a smear campaign except with truth. We Americans get smear campaigns Everytime there is an election. That's it. That was their end result.

Why do I not give a **** about the DNC getting hacked? I'll give several.

1. It wasn't an election booth or election result that got hacked.

2. If the politicians weren't so damn careless, there's a really good chance that they wouldn't have gotten hacked.

3. We actually got a smear campaign that was truthful. That's an achievement in getting when dealing with media/politicians. Next time it should be both, so we can see the truth about BOTH parties.

4. It embarrassed a politician, especially one that was rigged to win by the media. We Americans LOVE seeing someone that's high and mighty fall. Especially during a time when any doubts about her as a politician resulted with with labeled as a sexist. So glad to see that blow up in their face.

5. Because the media STILL says the Russians hacked the election. We still can't get the truth still.

 

Yes my friend but domestic media  hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was  a foreign country directly interfering in your elections

 

Its unprecedented and I find it highly inappropriate and irritating 

 

To be fair they didn't interfere with the election, they interfered with the DNC. Not the same thing. They tried to interfere with voting systems but that is impossible to do. And Redneckdevil is 100% correct. Had the DNC practiced even a modicum of the professionalism working Americans take for granted there would have been nothing embarrassing to reveal. Their arrogance, their nastiness, their sneering condescension was as much their downfall as the Russians. 

 

No one is saying they hacked  the actual voting system, they attempted and in some cases influenced public opinion through Wikileaks and the timed release of emails and yes the hacking of the DNC.

 

They were instrumental in embellishing fake news stories and encouraged distrust of anything Clinton said

[BruceVC]

Here's one example: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/ Clinton did the same.

That article is not the same thing, that  example is like financially supporting a lobbyist group or some Super Pacs

 

Your article even says 

 

" Mr. Netanyahu survived the election, and the U.S. spending was not deemed illegal because the State Department never put any conditions on the money. Investigators also said OneVoice didn’t turn explicitly political until days after the grant period ended " 

 

How can that even remotely be the same as president of Russia ordering hacking of the USA on numerous levels in a mandate to help Trump win?

[Volourn]

"Yes my friend but domestic media  hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was  a foreign country directly interfering in your elections"

 

L0L US does this all the time.

 

"Really? What election since the Cold War ended has the USA directly interfered in?"

 

Kanada's last election was intervered with by the US. How 'bout them apples?

 

 

P.S. Russia did NOT hack  the US election. Stop spreading lies. It's unpatriotic to even claim that there might be a *possibility* of the US elections being hacked. At least that is what Obama, Clinton, and all their buddies tell me and they NEVER lie.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Volourn

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

 

Nice to see that "new tone" in US politics is coming right along: http://fox42kptm.com/news/local/nebraska-democratic-party-official-ousted-after-controversial-audio-recording-surfaces

I'm glad she did the right thing according to what happened. Yes there is always ****, but I'm glad we still have people like her upholding the right protocol in this case.

 

Also am I the only one laughing my ass off about California's travel bans? Funny how everyone was up in arms and still are for Trump's travel bans, but it's okay for California to do so bc LGBT protection..... nevermind that the countries Trump is trying to ban for a bit is way worse towards LGBT community. Awww the hypocrisy is so funny af lmao.

 

Also BruceVC, I'll give u a reason why NO ONE gives a flying **** about Russia hacking the DNC and releasing untampered emails that didn't vote for Hillary. Wanna know why? Because in the end, all it was basically was a smear campaign except with truth. We Americans get smear campaigns Everytime there is an election. That's it. That was their end result.

Why do I not give a **** about the DNC getting hacked? I'll give several.

1. It wasn't an election booth or election result that got hacked.

2. If the politicians weren't so damn careless, there's a really good chance that they wouldn't have gotten hacked.

3. We actually got a smear campaign that was truthful. That's an achievement in getting when dealing with media/politicians. Next time it should be both, so we can see the truth about BOTH parties.

4. It embarrassed a politician, especially one that was rigged to win by the media. We Americans LOVE seeing someone that's high and mighty fall. Especially during a time when any doubts about her as a politician resulted with with labeled as a sexist. So glad to see that blow up in their face.

5. Because the media STILL says the Russians hacked the election. We still can't get the truth still.

 

Yes my friend but domestic media  hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was  a foreign country directly interfering in your elections

 

Its unprecedented and I find it highly inappropriate and irritating 

 

To be fair they didn't interfere with the election, they interfered with the DNC. Not the same thing. They tried to interfere with voting systems but that is impossible to do. And Redneckdevil is 100% correct. Had the DNC practiced even a modicum of the professionalism working Americans take for granted there would have been nothing embarrassing to reveal. Their arrogance, their nastiness, their sneering condescension was as much their downfall as the Russians. 

 

No one is saying they hacked  the actual voting system, they attempted and in some cases influenced public opinion through Wikileaks and the timed release of emails and yes the hacking of the DNC.

 

They were instrumental in embellishing fake news stories and encouraged distrust of anything Clinton said

 

That's just it Bruce, the news wasn't fake. Her campaign really was collaborating with the media to undermine Sanders. The media really was giving her the debate questions ahead of the time. These thing really were going on. And to be honest surprised no one when they came out. If you look in a rats nest you are not surprised to find rats there.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

Yes my friend but domestic media  hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was  a foreign country directly interfering in your elections

 

Its unprecedented and I find it highly inappropriate and irritating

It's not unprecedented, US interferes in foreign elections all the time. And Ted Kennedy traveled to the Soviet Union to collude with the communists to interfere in US election.

 

Really? What election since the Cold War ended has the USA directly interfered in?

 

Vietnam, Israel several times, Honduras, Panama, Italy (after WW2), Nicaragua, Chile, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Haiti... should I go on?

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

Here's one example: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-admin-sent-taxpayer-money-oust-netanyahu/ Clinton did the same.

That article is not the same thing, that  example is like financially supporting a lobbyist group or some Super Pacs

 

Your article even says 

 

" Mr. Netanyahu survived the election, and the U.S. spending was not deemed illegal because the State Department never put any conditions on the money. Investigators also said OneVoice didn’t turn explicitly political until days after the grant period ended " 

 

How can that even remotely be the same as president of Russia ordering hacking of the USA on numerous levels in a mandate to help Trump win?

 

You asked about interference in elections, not hacking. I'm sure we do lots of hacking as well, intelligence wouldn't be doing their job otherwise.

 

Edit: To add to GD's list, Obama also threatened British voters over the Brexit vote.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[Malcador]

What did Obama threaten them with ?  Other than being back of the queue for deals as well, they're smaller on their own. 

[Guard Dog]

Obama harbored a serious case of animus towards the UK his whole life. Sometimes it bubbled up during his Presidency. I'm not sure why. Maybe he got that from his father. 

[Malcador]

Well, there's not a lot to like in the first place .   I guess the Welsh are kind of OK.    Found a Mail article highlighting his loathing as he....moved a bust of Churchill out of the office and was mean to BP.   

[redneckdevil]

 

 

Nice to see that "new tone" in US politics is coming right along: http://fox42kptm.com/news/local/nebraska-democratic-party-official-ousted-after-controversial-audio-recording-surfaces

I'm glad she did the right thing according to what happened. Yes there is always ****, but I'm glad we still have people like her upholding the right protocol in this case.

 

Also am I the only one laughing my ass off about California's travel bans? Funny how everyone was up in arms and still are for Trump's travel bans, but it's okay for California to do so bc LGBT protection..... nevermind that the countries Trump is trying to ban for a bit is way worse towards LGBT community. Awww the hypocrisy is so funny af lmao.

 

Also BruceVC, I'll give u a reason why NO ONE gives a flying **** about Russia hacking the DNC and releasing untampered emails that didn't vote for Hillary. Wanna know why? Because in the end, all it was basically was a smear campaign except with truth. We Americans get smear campaigns Everytime there is an election. That's it. That was their end result.

Why do I not give a **** about the DNC getting hacked? I'll give several.

1. It wasn't an election booth or election result that got hacked.

2. If the politicians weren't so damn careless, there's a really good chance that they wouldn't have gotten hacked.

3. We actually got a smear campaign that was truthful. That's an achievement in getting when dealing with media/politicians. Next time it should be both, so we can see the truth about BOTH parties.

4. It embarrassed a politician, especially one that was rigged to win by the media. We Americans LOVE seeing someone that's high and mighty fall. Especially during a time when any doubts about her as a politician resulted with with labeled as a sexist. So glad to see that blow up in their face.

5. Because the media STILL says the Russians hacked the election. We still can't get the truth still.

Yes my friend but domestic media hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was a foreign country directly interfering in your elections

 

Its unprecedented and I find it highly inappropriately​ and irritating

I'd be outraged if it wasn't for the fact my country intervenes into other countries politics and elections all across the world. Id to believe it's a necessary evil in our future protections and not us doing so for petty reasons and for corporations....

 

Im more outraged that a country that does so is so clumsy and careless when it comes to our own elections.

Edited June 23, 2017 by redneckdevil

[Guard Dog]

Well, there's not a lot to like in the first place .   I guess the Welsh are kind of OK.    Found a Mail article highlighting his loathing as he....moved a bust of Churchill out of the office and was mean to BP. 

 

He deliberately declined to send an official Rep to Thatcher's funeral. He filibustered a resolution to honor Margret Thatcher when he was in the Senate. He turned a state dinner with Gordon Brown into a campaign event for the Democrats. At that dinner he was heard telling Gordon Brown "There is nothing special about Britain. You're just the same as the other 190 countries in the world. You shouldn't expect special treatment". The state gifts he game to Brown and Tony Blair were rather insulting. There were other things too.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

Ah ok well that's more like it. Good on him telling Brown that though. Have to admit it is reality. Trying to read up on this will be tainting, can see a lot Express, Sun and Mail articles ;p

Edited June 23, 2017 by Malcador

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It's obvious why Obama hates the UK.

 

 

He's in on the Hibernian Conspiracy.

[Agiel]

Emphases mine

 

 

What Macron Can Teach America: It’s Time for Center-Left and Center-Right to Unite

Two years ago, En Marche didn’t exist. Now it’s a supermajority. It can happen here—and it’s just what our sclerotic system needs.

by John Avlon

 

In a time of Trump and deepening populist polarization in both parties, the idea of a radical centrist revolution seems as unlikely as it does quaint.

 

But in 15 months, Emmanuel Macron has created a powerful counter-narrative in a time of ethno-nationalist pushback to globalization. His centrist party—La République en Marche—did not even exist when Donald Trump won his first primaries. After this past weekend’s elections, it commands a super-majority in the French parliament, displacing the Socialist Party almost entirely.

 

Macron tapped into populist desire for change against the stale status quo, but he channeled it in a constructive, rather than destructive, direction. A new generation of first-time candidates—including a majority women—ran for office on his party ticket. The policies they backed were not the stuff of pie-in-the-sky protest votes but a recognition that the major forces shaping our future—technology, the environment, the global economy—do not neatly cleave into ideologically driven left versus right positions.

 

Instead, the choice we face is between an open and closed vision of society, bridge builders versus wall-builders. This perspective offers us the opportunity to clear out some of the cobwebs from our outdated political debates and build a broader coalition between the center-left and the center-right with a few libertarians thrown in for good measure. The result is a refocus on a free-market liberalism that many American centrists would recognize as being consistent with their self-definition: fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

 

This balanced perspective is much more ideologically consistent than it commonly gets credit for: it is a classical liberal vision of free people and free markets that seeks to balance individual liberty with generational responsibility. It is guided by a belief in muscular moderation at home and multi-lateral internationalism abroad.

 

When American politics is functioning, there is broad consensus around this vision. For most of the past half-century, we’ve had vigorous debates held within the 30 yard-lines of the political field. There is an implicit recognition that “every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle,” as Jefferson once said. But what we have today is a deep departure from that American consensus.

 

Trump’s Republican Party represents a repudiation of the open society, no matter how its members of Congress try to contort themselves to explain the president’s positions. The uncomfortable fact is that Trump trounced his Republican rivals in the presidential primaries by discarding almost every article of Republican policy faith. 

 

Conservative populist primary voters showed that they weren’t motivated by ideas or ideology nearly as much as attitude—a defiant dismissal of PC paeans to unity in diversity in favor of a celebrity demagogue who called out Muslims and Mexicans with reckless abandon. And so that candidate could get caught on tape bragging about grabbing a married woman’s genitals and still win 83 percent the evangelical vote. Reagan’s party of strong national security nominated a man who never lost an opportunity to praise Vladimir Putin. A nominee who described himself as “the king of debt” and campaigned on a protectionist platform was embraced by long-time free-market economists and deficit hawks who didn’t want to lose their influence on the conservative circuit. The result is a party in power without any of the credibility that comes from standing for core beliefs.

 

Even in this environment, neither party has a monopoly on virtue or vice. But the fact is that we do have asymmetric polarization in our country—which is a fancy way of saying that Republicans have been growing more politically extreme than Democrats for the past two decades.

 

Democrats have hewed much closer to the center since Bill Clinton led their party back from three consecutive presidential defeats in which they lost at least 40 states. They can take some comfort from the fact that their party is still evenly divided between self-described moderates and liberals, while Republicans have RINO-hunted their moderates nearly out of existence (while nominating a New Yorker who a decade ago backed gun control and abortion rights).

 

But the Bernie-Hillary divisions are deepening, not healing. There is still no clear consensus about why Hillary lost, in part because she won the popular vote by such a large margin. The white working-class voters in the upper Midwest whom Clinton lost would seem like a demographic unlikely to be won over by more left-wing identity politics, but that seems to be the prescription the party base is most excited about.  Already we’re seeing some influential activists declare that Jon Ossoff lost in Georgia’s Republican-leaning 6th district because he was too centrist—which of course didn’t stop Republicans from painting him as a left-wing anarchist. Moving toward rigid identity politics and socialist economics offers a degree of novelty, but it’s the kind of gamble that could reelect Trump-Pence in a country whose overall center of political gravity remains center-right.

 

What’s hiding in plain site is the fact that America’s moderate majority is politically homeless in this equation. The center-left is far more influential than the center-right in their respective parties, but the reality is that both those groups share far more in common with each other than they do with their party’s populist bases. 

 

They both share a belief in fiscal responsibility and individual liberty. They balance realism and idealism and understand the strength of an open rather than closed society. They put country over party, view principled moderation as a political virtue and deeply believe in American leadership in the world. But they do not simply seek the safe middle ground—for example, many back school choice while being pro-choice when it comes to abortion. They are reformers in a field of reactionaries and radicals.

 

There is an opportunity for a bold articulation of this considerable common ground. Amid all the coverage of populist anger what gets lost is how much of it was directed at the dysfunction of Washington DC, precisely because the capital has been so polarized. More polarization is not the cure, it is the problem that created the frustration.  The right leader can make the case that poisonous polarization is the broken status quo and the radical center offers a decisive break with the recent past.

 

But one lesson Americans need to take from this civic stress test is that a president can’t be expected to come to save us. We The People are the ultimate backstop in our democracy and therefore we need a broader movement of citizens, rooted in our best history and most inclusive traditions to re-center our politics and civic debates. 

 

We need more radical centrist senators and congresswomen from both parties who can form a coalition that holds the balance of power by voting their conscience rather than splitting the difference.  And ultimately, perhaps, it may be time for those senators and select governors to split off and form something new, responding to the fact that 57 percent of Americans believe there is a need for a third party, according to a 2016 Gallup poll.

 

After all, the most popular governors in the country—Blue State Republicans Charlie Baker of Massachusetts and Larry Hogan of Maryland—cannot hope to run for president because their very moderation, which makes them so popular and effective, is a disqualifier in the Republican primary. When our political parties write-off the very candidates who have proven their ability to appeal across the aisle, we are living in an insane situation that doesn’t reflect well on our ability to unite and govern in the national interest. And this self-inflcited dysfunction only adds credence to those competing powers who want to make the case that liberal democracy is inefficient and ill-equipped to succed in the 21st century.

 

We live in a time of massive disruption born of new technology. Partisan politics is the last place people are still expected to be satisfied with a choice between Brand A and Brand B.

 

In the short run, the best thing for our democracy is to dislodge unified control of Washington from one party, under Trump, which has abandoned its ideals to a rank opportunism that often panders to our worst impulses without any sense of responsibility.

 

In the long run, the conditions might be right for the creation of a new centrist coalition that can restore our faith in representative government. They can claim a direct connection to our founding fathers’ distrust of extremism and belief in moderation as a source of political strength. This vision draws on some forgotten wisdom—that the real political divisions aren’t between left and right but between radicals, reactionaries and reformers.

 

It’s time for reformers to rise up and unapologetically proclaim the strength of the radical center. With storm clouds surrounding liberal democracy at home and abroad, we can hopelessly fixate on all the very real dangers, or we can look to the one bright counter-veiling trend. Macron’s radical centrist movement could prove to be the most durable inspiration from overseas since France gave America the Statue of Liberty.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

We already had a "Radical Center" candidate in the form of Hillary Clinton. She lost.

[BruceVC]

"Yes my friend but domestic media  hyperbole and US politicians trying to undermine other politicians is normal ...this was  a foreign country directly interfering in your elections"

 

L0L US does this all the time.

 

"Really? What election since the Cold War ended has the USA directly interfered in?"

 

Kanada's last election was intervered with by the US. How 'bout them apples?

 

 

P.S. Russia did NOT hack  the US election. Stop spreading lies. It's unpatriotic to even claim that there might be a *possibility* of the US elections being hacked. At least that is what Obama, Clinton, and all their buddies tell me and they NEVER lie.

volo we discussed this last time and Im sure you agreed, Canada doesnt really count because we want Canada  to become part of the USA anyway...so we consider interference in the Canadian electoral process as   " domestic " which is acceptable 

 

Its best for Canada and its economic and cultural sustainability  to become part of the USA, its not like it would make a difference to you? And yes you can still keep your French language but if you honest I doubt you can name one valid reason why Canada shouldn't be absorbed into the USA?

 

[redneckdevil]

Ummm no, Canada is part of America but they they own people. Besides where are all the people gonna go when someone they don't like is gonna go? Mexico?

Keeping French? Lmfao. We still have problems with people not speaking English as main language.

Don't scare the Canadians, we already crazy enough to them, don't want them thinking we want to bring them freedom lol.

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by redneckdevil

[redneckdevil]

We already had a "Radical Center" candidate in the form of Hillary Clinton. She lost.

How was Hillary center? We had 2 choices, Clinton who was far left and Trump who was far far out there.

She wanted to continue everything Obama was doing and more. Bernie was closer to the center than Hillary was. Johnson was our middle man, hell his whole campaign was about working together with both Democrats and Republicans. Hillary would have been just like Trump in only working within the party and not out. Look at what they did to Bernie to prove that.

Edited June 24, 2017 by redneckdevil

[Zoraptor]

 

He deliberately declined to send an official Rep to Thatcher's funeral.

 

 

Thus cementing his popularity amongst half the UK's population.

 

Clinton who was far left

 

 

Marx, Engles, Lenin, Bakunin and Clinton. Hmm.

 

To quote Sesame Street (or The Electric Company, I forget) "one of these things is not like the other".

[Guard Dog]

About 10 PM on election night when it became clear the Republicans would retain control of both houses of Congress I stopped worrying about Hillary Clinton winning. Even if she did win she would be completely neutralized if the majorities in the House and Senate could keep their s--t together (by no means a certainty). Once Trump won I was worried again because nothing should frighten Americans more than one party control over the Federal government. A lot of very bad s--t happens in times like that. Now we are six months in and I'm less worried. The Congress has done little more than pass a VA Bill everyone (Democrats included) agree was needed and put out two ACA replacement bills. Neither of which will ever pass but will chew up their calendar for months to come. Six months and nothing? I can live with that.

 

I've said it before but it bears repeating. I dislike the Republicans. But I despise the Democrats. They are the anti-liberty party. They are the no free speech party. They are the party of imminent domain, gun control, civil asset forfeiture, 1st amendment zones, and anti-Federalism. The are the anti-religion party, the censor the internet party, and the party of "mandatory compliance". They are the party that ignores Posse Comitatus, and thinks killing Americans with drones is OK. They are the party of "you can't say that. You can't do this. You can't make that. You can't eat this. You can't watch that movie, or visit this website, or listen to this radio show." In fact the only two areas where the Democrats actually favor liberty is Gay Marriage and abortion. And they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the former.

 

There are times I think to myself "Donald f-----g Trump is the President of the United States. How the HELL did that happen?!" Then I think "Well, thank God it ain't Hillary Clinton". I'd still rather it were him picking judges than her. Presidents come and go. A Supreme Court Justice can f--k you over for generations to come. Case in point: http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/23/supreme-court-deals-blow-to-property-rig

 

I didn't vote for either of them. I followed my better judgement and voted for the best candidate on my ballot, Gary Johnson. And as much as I dislike Trump and wish that any of the other Republican candidates were there instead of him (even Cruz) the outcome of this election could have been worse.

 

Just my $.02

Edited June 24, 2017 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

Ah ok well that's more like it. Good on him telling Brown that though. Have to admit it is reality. Trying to read up on this will be tainting, can see a lot Express, Sun and Mail articles ;p

It's one thing to think that, it's another for one head of state to say it to another. Especially two countries whose cooperation has changed the course of history for the better. Sonst würden wir auf deutsch geschreiben.

[Hurlshort]

If Clinton is far left, then what the heck would Bernie Sanders be?

[algroth]

If Clinton is far left, then what the heck would Bernie Sanders be?

He left the building.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

If Clinton is far left, then what the heck would Bernie Sanders be?

Beyond the political spectrum into the phantom zone of European Social Democrats.

 

 

We already had a "Radical Center" candidate in the form of Hillary Clinton. She lost.

How was Hillary center?

Look at her political positions and compare them to Macron.

[redneckdevil]

Yeah, my mistake Bernie is more far "left" than Hillary. I forget there's more to the left and right than Democrat and Republicans. I still say Hillary was not our "center" at all, that was Johnson.

Johnson was center because he had a good mix of both Democrat and Republicans ideals. I mean Hillary was full on Democrat and was gonna push everything that had been going on even further.

Hell the practices she pushed wouldn't have been the end of the world, the whole vibe and atmosphere of the media and social propaganda that they were using is what really needed to go. It was like simply having a woman in office "trumped" any reason for her not to be in office. Nevermind she's horrible as a person and as a politician, she could a been a the stupidest **** on a stick and it wouldn't matter because we finally got a woman as a president. That whole mindset of shutting down talking with your sexist if u don't like her, your racist if u have any problems with Obama, etc etc.

The one good thing we got going for us right now with Trump elected is that **** got toned the **** down. Instead of how horrible we the public are for being racist/sexist/and all the hundreds of other ists we were being called, it's all directed at Trump now let that blowhard suck it and take it instead.