injurai Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 am only seeing five party members, but ui implies six, no? HA! Good Fun! Pretty sure that is log filter, perhaps filter on all party members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 That's some thin ice you're stompin' on. As we are doomed anyway, what does it matter? 1 --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lephys Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 1. That every single aspect of a character can be justified from a historical point of view does not necessarily mean that it is very likely to find all these aspects together in one character. We have: Paleness and glasses and forensics and miniskirts and a rapier and the haircut and so on and so on Good point. Fictional media should probably just stick to all the things we're likely to find together in one place. 2. That something is historically correct does not necessarily mean, that it is not a stereotype. Especially from a modern point of view. That something is a stereotype does not necessarily mean... anything useful. According to stereotypes, you're one of "those forumgoers," so all you do is argue all day to argue, about stuff that doesn't matter at all. So, I guess we'd better not discuss anything ever, or we might appear similar to a stereotype. *eye roll*. Last I checked, a stereotype is just an actual, legitimate collection of traits that is simply applied too liberally and arbitrarily to people with any kind of similarity. Again, "Oh, you use numbers to list things in forum posts... therefore, I've decided you are just like this other person I know who uses numbers to list things in forum posts... he likes unicorns too much. You probably like unicorns too much." 3. "She's pale because she's a Pale Elf": Conan the barbarian isn't half naked and very strong because he's a sexist stereotype. He is half naked and very strong because he's a barbarian. Not finding a breadcrumb trail here to a point. Did you not just illustrate the meaning of what I just said? Also, Conan is just Conan. He's him because he's him. Just because all barbarians aren't like him does not mean that he cannot be like him because people might think that his design means that barbarians could be no other way. Just for what that's worth. 4. "And is someone not allowed to have a backstory that has them being super interested in death/"forensics" of a sort". Of course it's allowed. It is as shallow as a backstory for a softcore porn and we already saw it one million times, but no one said it isn't allowed. That's not very helpful. People are arguing against her character because they do not think such a character design should be allowed into the game. We all know what I was asking. I can word it 73 different ways if you'd like to beat around the literal meanings of all of them. What about the general idea of a character being interested in death is, to any degree, bad? I mean, if you feel there should be MORE fleshing out there, then by all means say so. But, once again, people are arguing that the fact that she's interested in death somehow works as a component in her being somehow cliche. I haven't seen anyone argue merely that the devs didn't take her backstory far enough in the direction that it's going. That is was simply shallow. 5. None of that is subjective. A stereotype stays a stereotype, even if your subjective taste tries to convince you otherwise. Stereotypes are quite directly born of subjectivity. If humans couldn't feel like This guy with glasses possessed a bunch of traits that another guy with glasses did, then a stereotype could not exist. We didn't dig stereotite ore out of the ground one day or something. P.S.: These threads don't stop for a reason: People like you, that would defend this stereotypical, crowdpleasing, lazy marketing move called Ydwin to the death, even if they know exactly what people mean, if they say it's anime or gothic or stereotypical. I'm not even defending her, haha. I am observing the attitude towards her, and questioning it. Also, for what it's worth, thank you for enlightening me. I feel personally responsible for the existence of zealots, now, and their attitudes. If only I hadn't posted something about this after 1,000 posts about Ydwin had already been logged, those posts all would've taken a DeLorean back to 1985 and prevented themselves from ever having been posted in the first place. Darn me. P.P.S.: I like the new portrait of her. Actually I think she might not be that bad as a character. But she is a stereotype and I won't rest until that is perfectly clear to everyone. I hope you do well without sleep, then, because even if that was correct, have fun getting anything to be clear to everyone. . Nothing in this universe requires humans to see reason. 8 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Right... so, what did Josh post again? 4 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I imagine that what Adam is showing off is modified UI. Seems like you can move individual elements of UI around. Yes I mentioned that, also that log scroll bar is very much different from earlier videos. The color difference could simply be a result of a bad photo though, so I will concede that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I haven't seen anyone argue merely that the devs didn't take her backstory far enough in the direction that it's going. That is was simply shallow. well, at least a half dozen times now Gromnir has stated how is too little from the blurb to find anything worthy o' like or dislike 'bout ydwin's character... save for the fact we has noted the absence o' an animancer companion were an oversight given how underdeveloped were poe animancy. so... the character art for ydwin so far has been out-of-place. is jarring. we don't necessarily dislike anime-inspired, but such stuff in poe is inconsistent. in a game such as wow, a human with realistic proportions and authentic weaponry would look ridiculous even if such a character were the only character in the entire history o' the game exhibiting a sense o' practicality. 'course there is also folks who so enjoy the anime look it does not bother them in the least when a nier:automata character shows up in deadfire. keep trying to tell folks there is no anime influences at work in the ydwin art ignores the Fact o' many people seeing an anime influence. is not actual debatable as to whether many people see ydwin as an anime pastiche. maybe you don't see the complaints as justified, but the ship has sailed on whether or not ydwin manages to evoke considerable anime comparisons... in a game which largely avoids other such examples. is not a mere handful o' folks seeing anime influence neither. 'course again, the thing which annoys us most is the folks defending ydwin by means o' realism or similar such nonsense. defend 'cause you think the aesthetic is kewl is unassailable, but the folks arguing history o' eyewear n' such make us groan. unnecessary and makes the defender appear ludicrous. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooAmEye Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Honestly, I don;t get why at this point why we don't just wait for the game to come out. We have no idea what her archetype will end up being, nor do we possess control over what she could be. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messier-31 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 keep trying to tell folks there is no anime influences at work in the ydwin art ignores the Fact o' many people seeing an anime influence. is not actual debatable as to whether many people see ydwin as an anime pastiche. maybe you don't see the complaints as justified, but the ship has sailed on whether or not ydwin manages to evoke considerable anime comparisons... in a game which largely avoids other such examples. is not a mere handful o' folks seeing anime influence neither. 'course again, the thing which annoys us most is the folks defending ydwin by means o' realism or similar such nonsense. defend 'cause you think the aesthetic is kewl is unassailable, but the folks arguing history o' eyewear n' such make us groan. unnecessary and makes the defender appear ludicrous. Gromnir, I agree. But does it really matter now? I think that all of us participating here on these forums should cut ourselves some slack at this point and wait for the realease in order to judge Ydwin properly (as HooAmEye already said). It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Mord Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Good point. Fictional media should probably just stick to all the things we're likely to find together in one place. Is that sarkasm? It's so hard to tell. Besides: I never said that one should only create "likely" characters. I just said that even if all of Ydwins characteristics are "historically accurate" it isn't historically accurate to find them all in one person. And if you would find them, this person would shurely not be a traveling rogue. This is only about your statement of Ydwin being a believable character. That something is a stereotype does not necessarily mean... anything useful. According to stereotypes, you're one of "those forumgoers," so all you do is argue all day to argue, about stuff that doesn't matter at all. So, I guess we'd better not discuss anything ever, or we might appear similar to a stereotype. *eye roll*. Last I checked, a stereotype is just an actual, legitimate collection of traits that is simply applied too liberally and arbitrarily to people with any kind of similarity. Again, "Oh, you use numbers to list things in forum posts... therefore, I've decided you are just like this other person I know who uses numbers to list things in forum posts... he likes unicorns too much. You probably like unicorns too much." So you admit that Ydwin is a stereotypical character? A legitimate collection of gothic and anime cliches? Not finding a breadcrumb trail here to a point. Did you not just illustrate the meaning of what I just said? Also, Conan is just Conan. He's him because he's him. Just because all barbarians aren't like him does not mean that he cannot be like him because people might think that his design means that barbarians could be no other way. Just for what that's worth. Are you really not getting it, or are you playing dumb? Conan is the most stereotype thing in the fantasy genre that comes to my mind. Saying that he only has those stereotypical barbarian features, because he is a barbarian does not change that. so saying that Ydwin is pale because she is a pale elf means nothing at all. She is a pale elf so she has an excuse to be pale. She could as well be a vampire, witch or whatever. As long as it fits the stereotype. But she can be no dwarf, amaua or anything else that would make her less stereotypical. What about the general idea of a character being interested in death is, to any degree, bad? Not at all. I even would like that. But please, not again in that same way. I cant see that anymore. I mean, if you feel there should be MORE fleshing out there, then by all means say so. Yes please. But in my opinion the concept art and description of Ydwin is a bad start for that. People see that image and have a lot of preconceptions (does that word even exist?) in the head immediately. There is no room for any kind of conflict or development besides of "I am the creepy girl and want to be understood". It's like trying to flesh out Sailor Moon or Harry Potter. Of course you can add a lot of inner conflicts and psychological bla bla. But that does not change the fact, that there isn't room for any development besides of "I am superhero with teenager problems" or "I cant really tell who the good guys and bad guys are". Stereotypes are quite directly born of subjectivity. If humans couldn't feel like This guy with glasses possessed a bunch of traits that another guy with glasses did, then a stereotype could not exist. We didn't dig stereotite ore out of the ground one day or something. Are you trying to say, that the gothic girl stereotype exists only in my head? Are you further implying that if a game developer tries to use that steretype to target a certain group, this is also just happening in my head? Well, of course. In a certain way that is true. But in a certain way that would lead me to the conclusion that none of the following things are really stereotypical. - Conan - 300 - Barbie - Fifty shades of grey - HIM - World of Warcraft - All browser games, that want to be as sucessful as WoW by copying WoW - Porn movies that have the word "stepmother" in their title - Pink unicorns with glitter - Female sidekick superheros with tight, black leatherclothes and a useless weapon or ability - Boygroups - Vampire movies for teenagers, using vampires and/or werewolfs as metaphor for being a teenager. All happening in my head. No one would even think of trying to make money by being stereotypical on purpose. I feel personally responsible for the existence of zealots, now, and their attitudes. You really think, your behaviour is in any way different? How cute. I hope you do well without sleep, then, because even if that was correct, have fun getting anything to be clear to everyone. . Nothing in this universe requires humans to see reason. You don't have to tell me that. It is all hopeless anyway. --- We're all doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 If I'm remembering correctly, Eder was a rogue in the beta. Pretty sure it wasn't just that one paragraph. Pretty sure you remember that wrong. You didn't even get named characters in the Beta, they were just generic characters like BB Fighter. But yeah when I look at this guy, and you ask me, "Is this a fighter, or a rogue?" Well... don't be shocked if my answer isn't rogue. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. I see that and I think: privateer. He's wearing what? Leather armor. You mean mercenary? He doesn't look piratey in any way, also, whips never made it ingame. No, technically a privateer is not the same as a pirate. It's a type of irregular combatant recruited to fight on behalf of a nation via the use of letters of marque. Does this guy look like a pirate? This is definitely a pirate. Valian one. 2 Done this with Moon Godlike Wizard Perebor steam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsene Lupin Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Eh... kind of. A privateer *is* a pirate, it's just a pirate in the employ of a government. It's not really a meaningful distinction to the people getting robbed. Historically they were supposed to only target merchant vessels hailing from specific nations, but in practice weren't all that discerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Right... so, what did Josh post again? Judging from his tweets and imgur pics, he's on vacation atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I call for a referendum to keep Ydwin out of this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Right... so, what did Josh post again? Judging from his tweets and imgur pics, he's on vacation atm. More like a business trip. He is currently in Poznan, Poland (hey Josh, give me a call:-) attending GIC17. He should be having his talk right bout now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dog_days Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I call for a referendum to keep Ydwin out of this thread. Seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr <3 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 What about discuss this things in *another* thread and leave just the spoilers/ teasers by Josh in this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I call for a referendum to keep Ydwin out of this thread. Seconded. am in favor o' such, but keep in mind the discussions never start as they end. this most recent resurrection o' the goth vampire princess were started 'cause o' the suggestion o' edér being a nonsensical rogue as compared to ydwin. spun out of control from that point with folks wanting to discuss their personal favorite ydwin gripes or compliments, no matter how tangential to the initial debate. she could be the obsidian board's own demonic interloper. have never checked, but perhaps is a bettlejuice or pazuzu summoning ritual involved. once her name is uttered/written three times in a given thread, the gates o' hell spring wide and Legion lurches forth to spread malice and misery and woe. thus may doom be 'pon the head o' the fools who invoke her damned presence. in other words, am supporting the proposal o' making she-who-shall-not-be-named verboten in this thread, but am dubious o' prospects for success. HA! Good Fun! 2 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 You guys realize that by calling for a vote to get Ydwin out of the thread, you are in fact mentioning Ydwin in the thread? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 You guys realize that by calling for a vote to get Ydwin out of the thread, you are in fact mentioning Ydwin in the thread? Calling for a vote, is not the same as a vote nor a vote passing. A rule to not mention that which is sought to be banned in the vote is a nonsensical expectation. The intent isn't even to banish her name, but to end the maelstrom that surrounds her. The real intent was to make quip at the maelstrom that surrounds her. Now I understand why Gromnir must explain the plot. Now I've been robbed of my quip. By all means, people are free to carry on how they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) You guys realize that by calling for a vote to get Ydwin out of the thread, you are in fact mentioning Ydwin in the thread? Calling for a vote, is not the same as a vote nor a vote passing. A rule to not mention that which is sought to be banned in the vote is a nonsensical expectation. The intent isn't even to banish her name, but to end the maelstrom that surrounds her. The real intent was to make quip at the maelstrom that surrounds her. Now I understand why Gromnir must explain the plot. Now I've been robbed of my quip. By all means, people are free to carry on how they wish. Or maybe I am just tired of the completely invented drama about the character, and actually would like the forums to move on. Which requires not talking about her. Edited October 7, 2017 by Karkarov 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Or maybe I am just tired of the completely invented drama about the character, and actually would like the forums to move on. Which requires not talking about her. Lol, that was reason for the quip. However, if you want to express the desire for the forums to collectively "move on," you still have to take that bold step to reference what you want to move on from. Now let's move on from this, and I'll give you the last word too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messier-31 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) You all should just cool down. Does it actually make sense in pressing this issue further? What about them Josh Sawyer teasers? I would like to see more of those. Now please, back on track. Edited October 7, 2017 by Messier-31 1 It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeroer Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Sawyerman... Sawyerman... Sawyerman... 2 Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexGames Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) Been off for quite a few weeks, couldn't follow the flow here. & I won't look back to all that bulls**t about Ydwin aswell ^^ (I'd rather not ), so I'll help you "Move On"... About that talk Josh gave in Poland : We'll have to wait for "The Feed Of The Director"... Edited October 7, 2017 by DexGames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wormerine Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Maybe Josh could redo the talk... just for usssss..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts