The Deadfire Campaign & What Went Wrong

[injurai]

The way I'd personally like VO resources distributed: Partial VO for the story, and quests. When VO is used in dialogue. Use it for all of the text in a given "spurt" of dialogue. Meaning when you choose a response. Once the NPC replies, either it should be all VO or all non-VO. Conversations don't have to be all VO, just don't break up an active flow of discourse.

 

Then save a somewhat descent amount of VO for ambient voice variety. I'd rather that conversation which I had 2 hours ago lack VO, than hearing the same ambient things all the time. Or just make ambient VO scripted one time deals. I agree that Skyrim's repeated ambient dialogue was pretty damn poor.

Edited May 10, 2017 by injurai

[anameforobsidian]

I'm not a fan of full voice-over.  I don't like what it does to the editing and npc creation process.  Content has to be locked in earlier to give time to the voice studio.  This means less time for revision, and revision leads to better dialogue.  The only way around that is the horrible Mass Effect system where text says one thing, voice says another.  The dissonance is really bad there.  Also, I really don't like how voice makes text more expensive.  I think by commodifying text, you end up with spare writing.

[rjshae]

Once I have a sense for the voice, I usually end up skipping through the text as fast as I can read it anyway. Waiting for the words to be spoken when the text is available gets tedious.

[Sedrefilos]

Once I have a sense for the voice, I usually end up skipping through the text as fast as I can read it anyway. Waiting for the words to be spoken when the text is available gets tedious.

Only if the voice-over is bad. If it's good it gives an extra dimention to the dialogue. It adds acting. It's not just voice.

 

Also about the thing that voice-over doesen't let you change dialogue later on; this might be true to en extent, but the question is if we like the game to be voiced or not, not if we think Obsidian could manage it. You can have both if you know what you're doing. New Vegas was fully voiced and still had a huge number of dialogue lines and of great quality. I didn't see any problem there.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[Messier-31]

 

Once I have a sense for the voice, I usually end up skipping through the text as fast as I can read it anyway. Waiting for the words to be spoken when the text is available gets tedious.

 

Only if the voice-over is bad. If it's good it gives an extra dimention to the dialogue. It adds acting. It's not just voice.

 

This.

Many voices (even some of the bad ones) in the Infinity Engine games are considered a cult classic.

Both English and Polish versions have fans where I come from.

 

EDIT: Back in the day many Polish online message boards had threads about favourite spoken lines of dialogue and catch-phrases from Baldur's Gate series. Ah, good times.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Messier-31

[Sedrefilos]

Sometimes I find strange that people demand local dubbing for their games. I think it's because I come from a country with almost zero dubbing culture. In Greece the only things that got dubbed are children programmes/movies and sometimes some midday soap operas. The only dubbed video games I can think of are soccer games, like FIFA or PES. I can only imagine a dubbed fantasy rpg and to my mind it sounds bad

I personally think that dubbing cuts much of the original experience - though not as much in a video game as in a movie/tv series. When you dub an actor, you remove most of the character, they way the original actor talks and expresses his or herself and the way the work was originally written, diricted and inspired. Not to mention you detatch the work from its culture. An many more, but enough rumbling

Edited May 11, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[MaxQuest]

Sometimes I find strange that people demand local dubbing for their games.

It depends on how well it is done)

 

For example I much prefer Warcraft3 and Witcher series in Russian language over original.

Yet could not stand playing WoW or DotA2 in other language than English.

 

For PoE1 it was English as well. Imho, text and VO should be in the same language, otherwise it's distracting.

 

I personally think that dubbing cuts much of the original experience - though not as much in a video game as in a movie/tv series. When you dub an actor, you remove most of the character, they way the original actor talks and expresses his or herself and the way the work was originally written, diricted and inspired.

Again, it depends on how well it's done)

Sometimes the voice of VO actor matches the character even better than that of the original actor.

[Messier-31]

 

Sometimes I find strange that people demand local dubbing for their games.

 

It depends on how well it is done)

 

For example I much prefer Warcraft3 and Witcher series in Russian language over original.

 

I guess, after all original Witcher is in Polish 

[MaxQuest]

Well, right...

I stand corrected)

It's hard not to think of English as primary, default language through, as it's used for console commands, creatures inner names, localization keys, etc.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

I also prefer partial voice over. A few spoken words allow me to imagine the character and hearing a few lines adds alot of character to an npc in my opinion. And like someone before mentioned full voice over takes too much time. Reading is much faster and i always end up skipping voice over the audio in games with full voice over. I liked how the Baldurs Gate games handled it. It also helped to emphasize important parts or important characters. Switching to full voice added to the gravity of some dialogues which would not have been possible if everything was full voice over. I liked how it was used to emphasize key events.  

[Wormerine]

 

 

Sometimes I find strange that people demand local dubbing for their games.

 

It depends on how well it is done)

 

For example I much prefer Warcraft3 and Witcher series in Russian language over original.

 

I guess, after all original Witcher is in Polish 

 

Well, sort of. Didn't they write script for Witcher2&3 in english first to make it more natural? (I heard 1st one was quite a mess... can't tell, played all of them in PL)

[Night Stalker]

The dialogue of the initial version of The Witcher was a mess. They later went back and released an enhanced edition which improved the quality immensely.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Night Stalker

[rjshae]

 

Once I have a sense for the voice, I usually end up skipping through the text as fast as I can read it anyway. Waiting for the words to be spoken when the text is available gets tedious.

Only if the voice-over is bad. If it's good it gives an extra dimention to the dialogue. It adds acting. It's not just voice.

 

Also about the thing that voice-over doesen't let you change dialogue later on; this might be true to en extent, but the question is if we like the game to be voiced or not, not if we think Obsidian could manage it. You can have both if you know what you're doing. New Vegas was fully voiced and still had a huge number of dialogue lines and of great quality. I didn't see any problem there.

 

I skipped through the voice-overs in FO:NV as well...

[injurai]

The dialogue of the initial version of The Witcher was released was a mess. They later went back and released an enhanced edition which improved the quality immensely.

 

Might have been the single best action the studio took early in it's life. I remember a the EE totally changed the games perception. From a rather intriguing eurojank title, or future cult classic. They gained confidence and a better heading from fan feedback which directly influenced their direction with 2. I remember being stunned by the dynamic rp systems when it had it's first showing.

[Karkarov]

 

I'm quite OK with partial VO. Listening to the same few voices in e.g. Skyrim is getting on me nerves

Excuse you, hearing "can't wait to count out your coin" from every 3rd bandit was the highlight of Skyrim.

Too bad I never heard these comments from bandits!  I was too quick to kick them in the head until they were dead, nyhuhuhuhuhuha!  After all, we must all know by now that the only good surfacer is a dead surfacer!

[JerekKruger]

I was too quick to kick them in the head until they were dead, nyhuhuhuhuhuha! 

 

Bravo sir, bravo.

[Gromnir]

 

I was too quick to kick them in the head until they were dead, nyhuhuhuhuhuha! 

 

Bravo sir, bravo.

 

am actual mild disappointed in karakov... for failing to work in the immortal, "hey sexy, do you want to take a look at me ditties?"

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Karkarov]

am actual mild disappointed in karakov... for failing to work in the immortal, "hey sexy, do you want to take a look at me ditties?"

 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Gromir, why?  If only someone would get me outta this hell hole!!!

[Yonjuro]

I also prefer partial voice over. A few spoken words allow me to imagine the character and hearing a few lines adds alot of character to an npc in my opinion. And like someone before mentioned full voice over takes too much time. Reading is much faster and i always end up skipping voice over the audio in games with full voice over. I liked how the Baldurs Gate games handled it. It also helped to emphasize important parts or important characters. Switching to full voice added to the gravity of some dialogues which would not have been possible if everything was full voice over. I liked how it was used to emphasize key events.  

 

 

  I agree with this comment almost 100%. The 'almost' is because the voice over for Maerwald's lines (where he is channeling more than one personality) in PoE1 added something to the encounter and it would have been difficult to achieve without VO. That seems like a good use of VO to me.

 

 For me, VO can be especially annoying when there is a longer dialog that is critical to the story (that is, something where your character's reactions affect the story so that, on play throughs after the first one, it isn't possible to just skip over everything). The voicing will be out of sync with the lines as you read them until you finish reading and skip the rest of the VO or, it takes a lot longer than it needs to to get through the dialog. Either option is distracting.  

 

 A command that allowed me to mute the voice for the remainder of a single dialog would fix this issue for me and would allow VO fans to have the VO that they like.

 

For others who feel the same way about VO, would that work for you?

 

How about it Obsidian devs?    

[injurai]

Maybe hitting the space bar stops dialogue and you have to hit it again to go to the next line.

 

Also I too like the Maerwald encounter but it did seem to drag on. I got the point pretty quickly. The more interesting bit was not Maerwald's delivery but the squad trying to surmise what it was that they were encounter. Which made the whole thing worth while. But Maerwalds delivery was rather slow and noodling, which only slowed down even further what was a fully voiced long encounter.

 

For all the resources that went into it, I don't think the payoff was nearly as high as one might have hopped for such a heavily voiced scene. I'd certainly not want to encounter too many more scenes like that if there are other deranged-watchers in Deadfire.

[Yonjuro]

Maybe hitting the space bar stops dialogue and you have to hit it again to go to the next line.

 

  Do you mean pausing the text to match the voice? I would rather have the option to skip the voice rather than slow down the text (or both options, but things can get complicated if there are too many UI options).

 

Also I too like the Maerwald encounter but it did seem to drag on. I got the point pretty quickly. The more interesting bit was not Maerwald's delivery but the squad trying to surmise what it was that they were encounter. Which made the whole thing worth while. But Maerwalds delivery was rather slow and noodling, which only slowed down even further what was a fully voiced long encounter.

 

For all the resources that went into it, I don't think the payoff was nearly as high as one might have hopped for such a heavily voiced scene. I'd certainly not want to encounter too many more scenes like that if there are other deranged-watchers in Deadfire.

 

 Sure - it could probably have been streamlined a bit more.

 

 My point about the Maerwald dialog is that the VO illustrates the multiple personalities which would be difficult to do without the VO. 

[anameforobsidian]

 Sure - it could probably have been streamlined a bit more.

 

 My point about the Maerwald dialog is that the VO illustrates the multiple personalities which would be difficult to do without the VO. 

 

 

Not really.  Either stage directions or different font would do the trick.

[Yonjuro]

 

 Sure - it could probably have been streamlined a bit more.

 

 My point about the Maerwald dialog is that the VO illustrates the multiple personalities which would be difficult to do without the VO. 

 

 

Not really.  Either stage directions or different font would do the trick.

 

 

 

I think your point may be  "we don't need no steeenking voice acting"  (even for characters with multiple personalities), and I am sympathetic to that view,  but I will try to be really precise to make sure I am getting my point across.

 

 In the Maerwald dialog, the VO solves a problem - communicating that Maerwald is channeling multiple personalities (as you point out, there may be other solutions for that problem).

 

 In some other dialogs, such as the hanging animancer, where the dialog also goes on for a long time, the voice isn't solving a specific problem. That's the distinction I am trying to make. 

 

As someone who prefers minimal voice acting (mainly because listening is slower than reading but also for the other reasons mentioned in earlier posts). Still, VO can make a game better if it is done well and  I think the the former is a better use of the VO budget than the latter.  

 

 To elaborate on that, VO comes with two costs: money for the devs and time for the players (fortunately, these costs are correlated) .

 

 Using the VO budget wisely means thinking about what problem each voiced line is intended to solve (including character development, emotional impact of specific lines, cases like Maerwald where the VO is communicating something other than the words of the text) and doing the VO when the benefits justify the costs. 

 

 To bring this tangent back to the topic at hand, the stretch goal of doubling the VO budget wasn't hugely exciting to me. By being ruthless with the VO budget, the devs are also being ruthless with things that take more of my time as a player.

[Sedrefilos]

There can always be an option for muting voice-over.

[rjshae]

For less important dialogue entries, they could always turn to the Tim Allen school of grunting communication.