Starting back at level 1?

[Volourn]

 "it was not particularly balanced well."

 

It was/is one of the most perfectly balanced games ever made.

 

 

 

Anyways, I'm not bugged really by the 1st level thing. I'm bugged by how we got there. Mr. sawyer's point is  true but that's why the decision to stick with original PC seems silly and unneeded and forces them to do a duex ex machine to delevel the character. Why not have a new character  come in and have to deal with the god? That be a lot easier and much more interesting (imo) way to do things than shoehorning the old one in this faggled way. Or, even better, since they knew most likely PE2 was likely they could have done better planning with the character system and the max levels in the first game + expansion then it would have more manageable to keep the same character.

 

Eh. Oh well.

[Doppelschwert]

The level cap is the same as for PoE with WM, so 16, and the new stretch goal pushes it to 18. Looks like there will be enough room for epic content, despite starting at lvl 1.

[morhilane]

The level cap is the same as for PoE with WM, so 16, and the new stretch goal pushes it to 18. Looks like there will be enough room for epic content, despite starting at lvl 1.

Most probably this type of epic content.

 

They already said the plan was to make a game of similar length to first, so I'm not surprised by the level cap. That stretch goals does mean more content technically though, hopefully it's not another crazy stats dragon...I'm kinda tired of those.

[Eumaios]

The level cap is the same as for PoE with WM, so 16, and the new stretch goal pushes it to 18. Looks like there will be enough room for epic content, despite starting at lvl 1.

So throw another god on the barbie and add side of dragonslaw? Are we going to reach level 18 over the course of time it took to finish the base Pillars game? ...Or will Pillars get to that point in the expansions?

[Varana]

If they have a story worth telling with the Watcher at its centre, then I surely wouldn't want them to scrap that just because they can't find a better explanation for reducing him/her to level 1 for a new game. In fact, given Eora's soul mechanics, it's even one of the better justifications for doing it. And as we probably won't be spending much time in the Dyrwood, there won't even be the awkward situation of running into the same people as in the first game.

[Adul]

I hope it's not too late for a change and they reconsider. Deleveling the protagonist puts an unnatural break into their progression, which is an integral part of every RPG. When you create an RPG sequel, this is a limitation you should keep in mind and work with, rather than try to cheat the system and reset everything, which sends a message to your players that their previous toils were less than meaningful.

 

Not to mention it disincentivizes replaying the saga as a whole, as the player will know from the start that their level progression from the first game will be lost when they start the second one, which makes it more difficult to care going into it.

[Eurhetemec]

I hope it's not too late for a change and they reconsider. Deleveling the protagonist puts an unnatural break into their progression, which is an integral part of every RPG. When you create an RPG sequel, this is a limitation you should keep in mind and work with, rather than try to cheat the system and reset everything, which sends a message to your players that their previous toils were less than meaningful.

 

Not to mention it disincentivizes replaying the saga as a whole, as the player will know from the start that their level progression from the first game will be lost when they start the second one, which makes it more difficult to care going into it.

 

This would be far more convincing if this wasn't something that most sequel/series-based CRPGs do, and if The Witcher series, probably the most broadly positively regard CRPG series out there right now, didn't do it.

 

But because most CRPG series do do this, or more often entirely dump your character from one game to the next, it is a wholly unconvincing argument.

 

I do agree mildly with the "disincentivizes", but literally all they need to do are give some very minor benefits to people transferring a character over and retain decisions. The Mass Effect series proves this. ME1 to ME2 involves going from a likely level 40-60 to level 1, but people are not "disincentivized" from playing them as a series because they care about the decisions they made, the impact they had, and the small-but-significant benefits they gain from importing a character.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Eurhetemec

[draego]

Ye you cant start at level 16 that would be ridiculous. You are basically god like at the end of the game. level 1 is fine. i am sure it will be good

[Gromnir]

Not sure how often I have to repeat this I am not opposed to starting at level one, in fact it's a good idea. I am very much opposed to plot crowbars, or just plain bad writing. So a level one noob - awesome way to go can't wait. Level one watcher soul drained by giant adra statue inhabited by deceased god, not so much.

am actual agreeing with rheingold's criticism.  oh sure, we also prefer a level 1 reboot, but am believing the depowering o' the watcher is contrived and ill considered. perhaps the motivation for doing so is to make possible the recycle o' three companions who will likewise be depowered? to make the depowering work from a story pov requires some kinda deus ex machina event. almost literal in the present case. a new protagonist woulda' been far more plausible and and would less likely to run up 'gainst proprietary instincts o' returning players.  start at level 1 would necessarily bother a few folks, but take away hard earned *chuckle* 16 levels were gonna predictable offend.  regardless, am not seeing a good reason for depowering the watcher save for it makes recycle o' three poe companions possible. coulda' started with a new protagonist at level one and had less baggage.

 

also, in spite o' being a bit off-topic, am gonna observe how we would prefer six party members. am only mentioning here as it is being argued in this thread.  regardless, a sixth party member is not something we "worry about," but is rather an opportunity to add an additional joinable or hierling.  the sixth member is, for Gromnir, providing considerable flexibility to our party dynamic.  have multiple priests or no priests is easier with an extra character.  an off-tank became a constant in our parties particular after a few o' the initial tank nerfs in early patches and when recognizing improved expansion mob ai.  given how one o' our tanks were gonna be quasi-dps or quasi-support, we would then have room for four additional characters; lotta opportunities.  only have three additional party members behind tanks would be much limiting.  oh, and again, we didn't actual need an off-tank during beta or at release.  nevertheless, have the extra slot made us able to adjust w/o much pain. try and predict post release changes is impossible, but extra slot allows for more player flexibility in any event.

 

oh, and more party members means we get to have more joinables in our party at one time, which is a big selling point for Gromnir, particular during our first playthrough.

 

but again, am much pleased with restarting as a level one protagonist.  even so, am recognizing the inherent awkwardness o' deus ex.  the curious depowering doesn't bother us much, but a new protagonist woulda' been far easier to explain and less likely to enrage folks emotional invested in their poe1 protagonist.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Messier-31]

Not sure how often I have to repeat this I am not opposed to starting at level one, in fact it's a good idea. I am very much opposed to plot crowbars, or just plain bad writing. So a level one noob - awesome way to go can't wait. Level one watcher soul drained by giant adra statue inhabited by deceased god, not so much.

 

A bit cheesy, isn't it?

Edited January 28, 2017 by Messier-31

[Ganrich]

This is a fairly blatant example of Deus Ex Machina no matter how you slice it. I am fine starting at level one, and prefer it the more I think that things are being changes in the system. That doesn't make the reasoning via narrative much easier to swallow.

[Yonjuro]

 

Not sure how often I have to repeat this I am not opposed to starting at level one, in fact it's a good idea. I am very much opposed to plot crowbars, or just plain bad writing. So a level one noob - awesome way to go can't wait. Level one watcher soul drained by giant adra statue inhabited by deceased god, not so much.

am actual agreeing with rheingold's criticism.  oh sure, we also prefer a level 1 reboot, but am believing the depowering o' the watcher is contrived and ill considered. perhaps the motivation for doing so is to make possible the recycle o' three companions who will likewise be depowered? to make the depowering work from a story pov requires some kinda deus ex machina event. almost literal in the present case. 

 

 

Indeed. Deus ex statua? This looks a bit like Obsidian writing themselves into a corner, already, with the first game in the series.

 

For example, at the end of PoE, Caed Nua was either a ruin or a thriving stronghold depending on player actions. Now, apparently it's either a ruin or, err, a ruin. 

 

At least with Mass Effect, Bioware waited until the second game to irreparably damage the writing of the game world.

 

If Obsidian introduces The Illusive Archmage who is actually a reincarnation of Raedric and who communicates orders to the watcher telepathically, I am out of here.  

[Gromnir]

the deus ex statuary is not a big deal to Gromnir.  honest, most scifi and fantasy places great demands 'pon us to suspend disbelief.  this is not a serious issue from our pov.  even so, am not seeing why it were a necessary hurdle to need overcome.  if obsidian wanted to start us at level 1, then give us a new level 1 protagonist.  could keep much the same if developers genuine wished to do so.  make watcher unavailable, but have the new protagonist  get caught up in the misfortune at cad nua.  same starting point at least.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lamppost in Winter]

 

 

Indeed. Deus ex statua?

 Deus in statuam. The nearly literal deus ex machina does tickle me.

 

I'm also in favour of a return to level 1, and I don't actually hate this particular level drain, but I am wary of a more epic, "save the world" plot that a living, angry God might herald. I liked that the PoE main quest felt personal, with no real boss fights, or even any plot-related combat apart from Thaos himself.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Lamppost in Winter

[Heradite]

I'm okay with starting at level one but I do feel like there should be a small stat boost for those characters by like a point or two.

[Yonjuro]

the deus ex statuary is not a big deal to Gromnir.  honest, most scifi and fantasy places great demands 'pon us to suspend disbelief.  this is not a serious issue from our pov.  even so, am not seeing why it were a necessary hurdle to need overcome.  if obsidian wanted to start us at level 1, then give us a new level 1 protagonist.  could keep much the same if developers genuine wished to do so.  make watcher unavailable, but have the new protagonist  get caught up in the misfortune at cad nua.  same starting point at least.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 Yes, and if Caed Nua has just been destroyed, it would make sense for the Watcher to be busy.

[Yonjuro]

 

 

 

Indeed. Deus ex statua?

 Deus in statuam. 

 

 Ah, I see, thank you.

[Karkarov]

I do agree mildly with the "disincentivizes", but literally all they need to do are give some very minor benefits to people transferring a character over and retain decisions. The Mass Effect series proves this. ME1 to ME2 involves going from a likely level 40-60 to level 1, but people are not "disincentivized" from playing them as a series because they care about the decisions they made, the impact they had, and the small-but-significant benefits they gain from importing a character.

Well said.  No one really cared that you started over at level 1 in Mass Effect 2, but yeah it had a good "explanation" for it.  More interesting, I don't think I ever heard anyone seriously bitch about level and gear loss between Witcher 1-2 or 2-3.  It is more interesting because there is literally no explanation as to why you are de leveled, or missing all your kit.  You just are.

 

As long as major decisions, maybe some minor ones, and the plots associated with your companions make it over 98% of players will just laugh at the story maguffin and dive in.  I know I will.

[evilcat]

I dont mind lv1, since early levels allow to joy over killed wolf or any magical item no matter how inferior it is end game.

It could be easier for new folks to learn the game from level 1, when there is just a couple of spells/abilities.

Forcing new players to level 16 levels just after character creation, and autoleveling is even worse, since it takes fun away.

I hope for advanced start: if we beat game once, we can start new game at level 5, so can skip some early content.

[Volourn]

" No one really cared that you started over at level 1 in Mass Effect 2, but yeah it had a good "explanation" for it."

 

Kiddin' right? People did complain. And, it still gets mocked for it. However, ME2 has other good qualities that still make it a fun game. presumably, PE2 will be the same way. I'll criticize this BUT I expect there will be parts of the game that will be fun and make the game enjoyable.

 

ie. ME2's beginning was annoying for the 'restart' but its ending is one of the best if not the best ending sequence ever (barring the questionable sue of a human terminator lol). If PE2 can do the same sort of thing this will be small potatoes though that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

[Ainamacar]

I look at it this way: We've had our soul stolen, are (presumably) doomed if we don't get one back, and are going after a reborn god to get it.

 

PoE2 is BG2 inverted: this time we're Irenicus.  I can freaking live with that.

 

Plus, the average Dyrwoodan won't think the Watcher is a chump for being level 1.  No, what they see is a person (or group) who recently rose from nothing to greatness who has had their soul sucked by a god and, perhaps uniquely in a trail of desolation, survived.  Now the Lord of Caed Nua is alive, angry, and armed.  Sane people won't mock the Watcher, they'll get out of the way.  That is leaving a mark, no matter what the XP box on the character sheet says.

 

Finally, I think Obsidian has the opportunity to do something interesting with the original companions.  Namely, while some are present at the beginning (thus set back to level 1) others may be encountered later in the campaign in their high-level forms.  Even if they were just NPCs or temporary companions that reinforces the continuity with the original story, and to me would strengthen the sense that the level reset is a vital part of the story rather than just a mechanical contrivance.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ainamacar

[limaxophobiacq]

As others have said this is just a blatant deus-ex-machina for obsidian to get themselves out of a problem they've gotten themselves into, which is pretty grating for me. No doubt they will also handwave some explanation for how all the watchers gear and wealth dissapeared or just remove it and provide no explanation.

 

I think its a shame because the setting provides a much simpler and cleaner out for them if they want to get around these problems but also let you continue the story and import your character; just have us play PoE 2 as the watchers next reincarnation. It is such an obvious solution they must definitely have thought of it and rejected it.

Edited January 29, 2017 by limaxophobiacq

[Messier-31]

I think its a shame because the setting provides a much simpler and cleaner out for them if they want to get around these problems but also let you continue the story and import your character; just have us play PoE 2 as the watchers next reincarnation. It is such an obvious solution they must definitely have thought of it and rejected it.

 

Ha, thought about it too

 

Although Josh stated in the video from the first Fig update that the beginning of PoE2 will be alright. So we will have to trust him on this one, wait and see for ourselves.

 

Time will tell how good of a job they do with this deus ex statua.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

Has it been confirmed that the player character is again the watcher ? Otherwise it would be natural to start at lvl 1 with a new character.

[Leferd]

Has it been confirmed that the player character is again the watcher ? Otherwise it would be natural to start at lvl 1 with a new character.

 

Yes.

 

 

Or fast forwarded to 3:22. https://youtu.be/ln_plWALAoI?t=202