Starting back at level 1?

[InsaneCommander]

Well, nothing like stealing our levels and experience and smashing all our cool stuff to generate a truly personal grudge against Eothas, right?

 

I hope Orlan baby's gonna be ok, I don't think it's even level 1 being a baby, lol.

 

I'm worried about the baby too. Even if it's ok, I will find you Eothas!

[Volourn]

This is the same heavy handedness that BIO did with ME2. Same type of silliness. The game turned out fine in spite of it but otherwise this shows poor panning - espciially for a game hyped on it being nu BG series. Could they not do it the way the BG series did. Or is something done nearly 2 decades ago too hard to do now with modern gaming machines?

 

If you are gonna start us at level 1, better off having a new character. Now,  it is simply relevling the same character. Not as cool when it comes to character building.

 

Don't get me wrong, this likely won't be a major detraction from how 'fun' the game might be but it shows poor planning alal, again, BIO and ME.

 

 

Tsk, tsk.

[Eumaios]

I think first level sounds great only with a new character, but that ship's no longer visible from land.  The idea of taking the PC and NPCs down to first level sounds weird, but I don't mind.  I disagree with rheingold, though.  Just because your character is diminished subsequent to the first game doesn't change everything he did there.  If you volunteer at a soup kitchen, become homeless, and are therefore reduced to dining at the soup kitchen where you once fed people who are now like yourself, it doesn't change your prior work.  There were choices and consequences in the first game.  After that, an anvil fell on you and someone pick-pocketed your soul.  Not all consequences come as a result of your choice.  If the universe is a factory of free will, then there's a boatload of choices from other people that consequent you every day.  You just have to choice the swine back with a few consequences to show 'em who's boss.

[rheingold]

It's more than poor planning it just doesn't bode well for the game. I'm staring to get some serious flashbacks to when bioware went downhill. First their founders left ala Avellone, then they wanted to redesign a system that worked well but just needed tweaks, then they moved onto bad plotting and story telling.... I'm sure Obs will do just fine especially considering how well the funding is going, but I'm certainly not about to pay an excessive amount of money on this. As I said a level one watcher is a deal breaker. Though, again I'd be fine with a new noobie... it would make perfect sense.

[Eumaios]

Yeah, when I saw this thread, I was happy.  Then I realized what it meant and now I'm sad.  I try not to spoil too much stuff in a game I already know I'm going to buy, so I'm just thinking about whether I want to jump on yet another crowdfunding bandwagon... and whether I can scrape together the cash.

[Aotrs Commander]

This is the same heavy handedness that BIO did with ME2. Same type of silliness. The game turned out fine in spite of it but otherwise this shows poor panning - espciially for a game hyped on it being nu BG series. Could they not do it the way the BG series did. Or is something done nearly 2 decades ago too hard to do now with modern gaming machines?

 

BG2 'ported you in from a lower level - everybody but mages, rogues and bards were level 8, (9 for the wizards and 10 for the latter if you'd played Sword Coast and had a higher XP cap). That's significantly lower than the cap for vanilla PoE - and AD&D was a very simple system, where there were essentially no real significant new class features for most classes between low and high level; spellcasters getting spells being the most obvious. (And cleric spells were never as good as wizard spells, and wizard spells could be limited by the devs as to where the scrolls could be obtained).

 

(And BG1's level cap was absurdly low compared to play time, and why no game thereafter has followed its lead.)

 

All in all, it was MUCH easier to deal with that than with PoE, which is much more like 3.x than AD&D. (Mercifully - as a mechanical system, AD&D was actually pretty crap. BG2 and PS:T succeeded in spite of, rather than because of, that underlying ruleset)

 

So I can see their rational in not wanting to start a game where you could have a potential level range of 11th to 16th and have to scale the entire game to those levels AND make a very steep curve for anyone who has not played the first one. (Because there is a massive different between an AD&D Fighter and a PoE Fighter at 16th level.)

 

Like I said, I would have preferred them to have split the difference a bit, but that's their decision.

[Rolandur]

From an RPG aspect of story [and character] continuation this seems like a poor choice to take. Though coming into PoE 2 at level 16 (or even ~10) would seem just as odd. I hope there's good reasoning (very detailed story) behind this or this may turn out awkward to play. I'm sure I'll get over this apprehension as more news comes out about the game and at the precipice of launch.

 

PoE will always be one of my favorite RPG's but I just don't know how level 1 character will be applicable.

[Rorschach]

I really don't like the idea of starting at lvl 1. If they had changed the main character, of course I wouldn't mind, but this... It feels a bit cheap even if it's justified by the story.

 

On the other hand, maybe it would be even worse to have to suffer something like ToB all over again where everyone and their dog could cast time stop and the (apparently) huge change of system justifes starting at low level.

 

The ideal solution would have been to start at a low-mid level like 4-6, where we could have some power without having to start by fighting wild animals. Anyway, it's not a dealbreaker for me and I'll forget about it 5 minutes in the game, so I won't give it much thought.

[Ganrich]

Narrative-wise. This is heavy handed, and I'm not much of a fan, but since they are heavily editing the class systems and adding subclasses... I can definitely understand it.

 

Where as BG 1&2 kept the same system... this would require players to figure their class out with a crap ton of abilities instead of learning as you go along.

 

I will wait for info on classes and how they may change from the first game to this game, and then I'll pass judgement. It won't help the narrative, but it'll make that go down easier. For me at least.

[sp3cw4r]

Yeah I'm a little disappointed at hearing this. I thought we were in for a high level campaign dealing with the Gods and potential godlike powers for our classes. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I adore low level campaigns but to re-level a character you've already leveled doesn't sound all that appealing. As already stated in this thread if it was a brand new level 1 character, no problems, but roll back to level 1 from a 16th level character—eww. And what this does to the narrative as well, not giving me good vibes.

 

I'll have faith in the team and hope they prove me wrong.

[jones092201@gmail.com]

With a system revamp, I'm fine with the level one start...but since I've spent countless hours building and rebuilding characters and run them through a hundred hour game, I'd like some functional recognition of that...maybe a few extra attribute points for my battle-hardened (read: full play through) watcher. Or a free talent or two at level one.

 

Add; the annoyance will come when four characters who have killed multiple dragons and defied gods get wiped by wood beetles.

Edited January 28, 2017 by jones092201@gmail.com

[Karkarov]

Can't say the official news surprised me.  Personally I am fine with it.  They are going to introduce real multi classing, new mechanics, and a new take on class kits?  It only makes sense to start back at level 1.  I wish they had just done a fresh story instead, but lots of people wanted closure on the Eothas plot so I can forgive it.

Especially since it ends up in Deadfire Archipelago, one of the regions I thought sounded most interesting on paper.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Where did they confirm this?

[jones092201@gmail.com]

Where did they confirm this?

Backer update

[morhilane]

 

Got to say it's a deal breaker for me. Really bad story telling, they have pretty much made the first game pointless. It's really unnecessary, they should have just had a new character, instead of waving a giant eothas shaped magic schtick. Really tacky. So disappointed. I'll still get the game but certainly not going to pay extra for it this time. And its nothing to do with power or lack thereoff or even an emotional bond with the watcher, it's purely narrative driven, as in, if I want to play a game without consequences or silly plotting, well there are no lack of those games.

Yea, I don't get how stealing part of your soul suddenly makes you forget how to swing a sword or sing a song.

 

 

Lorewise, your character's powers are soul based. That means getting soul drained is the equivalent of level drain in D&D, except Eora is piss poor in term of soul restoration magic as the first POE game showed (aka it has none and everyone screw things up the moment they start to play with souls).

 

Also, remember that a bîaŵac kill most people and that steal souls from a bodies...except the Watchers, they still end up on their asses and get weird visions because of it though.

[Aotrs Commander]

 

 

Got to say it's a deal breaker for me. Really bad story telling, they have pretty much made the first game pointless. It's really unnecessary, they should have just had a new character, instead of waving a giant eothas shaped magic schtick. Really tacky. So disappointed. I'll still get the game but certainly not going to pay extra for it this time. And its nothing to do with power or lack thereoff or even an emotional bond with the watcher, it's purely narrative driven, as in, if I want to play a game without consequences or silly plotting, well there are no lack of those games.

Yea, I don't get how stealing part of your soul suddenly makes you forget how to swing a sword or sing a song.

 

 

Lorewise, your character's powers are soul based. That means getting soul drained is the equivalent of level drain in D&D, except Eora is piss poor in term of soul restoration magic as the first POE game showed (aka it has none and everyone screw things up the moment they start to play with souls).

 

Also, remember that a bîaŵac kill most people and that steal souls from a bodies...except the Watchers, they still end up on their asses and get weird visions because of it though.

 

 

Indeed. They have set-up an entirely in-universe plausible reason for this, it fits in with the given lore easily.

[Tigranes]

Great, I don't want to play massive high levels full of super saiyan bandits or dragon hoards or whatever in the untenable arms race of 'higher levels more epic'. 

 

Couldn't care less if the explanation for losing levels is hackneyed or not, I'd rather play a good game for 50 hours than suffer an inferior experience for the sake of more 'realistic' premise. 

 

'Oh no my Watcher's story now doesn't make as much sense and I am robbed of my immersion' - *shrug* I don't see how it's any worse than the millions of other things RPGs have to do to make a fun game with a narrative. My appreciation of the Watcher's story and of the world of Eora is not really dependent on making sure I don't lose any XP/levels or making him more and more powerful until he is a demigod - if anything, starting from level 16 and going up is what would make me think this character is a preposterous and nonimmersive one.

 

Start from Level 1, and it's a whole lot easier to make the many improvements to game mechanics and it's historically proven that early/mid-levels are much easier to provide tactical challenge and sense of progression. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Tigranes

[Strange_Trees]

I guess this means we're probably losing all our hard earned gear as well

 

Goodbye Sabra Marie, you were my beautiful trophy from finally beating that stupid dragon, and I will miss you dearly.

 

Edit: Please let me save my menagerie of small vanity pets. That little bog bat was everything to me ;_;

Edited January 28, 2017 by Sylph_14

[Volourn]

"BG2 'ported you in from a lower level - everybody but mages, rogues and bards were level 8, (9 for the wizards and 10 for the latter if you'd played Sword Coast and had a higher XP cap). That's significantly lower than the cap for vanilla PoE - and AD&D was a very simple system, where there were essentially no real significant new class features for most classes between low and high level; spellcasters getting spells being the most obvious. (And cleric spells were never as good as wizard spells, and wizard spells could be limited by the devs as to where the scrolls could be obtained).

 

(And BG1's level cap was absurdly low compared to play time, and why no game thereafter has followed its lead.)

 

All in all, it was MUCH easier to deal with that than with PoE, which is much more like 3.x than AD&D. (Mercifully - as a mechanical system, AD&D was actually pretty crap. BG2 and PS:T succeeded in spite of, rather than because of, that underlying ruleset)

 

So I can see their rational in not wanting to start a game where you could have a potential level range of 11th to 16th and have to scale the entire game to those levels AND make a very steep curve for anyone who has not played the first one. (Because there is a massive different between an AD&D Fighter and a PoE Fighter at 16th level.)

 

Like I said, I would have preferred them to have split the difference a bit, but that's their decision."

 

Boring lying spam is boring lysing spam.  Even if what you said was 100% true (it isn't)  it doesn't change the fact this is just plain poor planning by Obsidian.  Like I said, this is just another ME2 all over again (Iand I loved ME2). that doesn't mean the game will suck but this just illustrates that Obsidian failed in understanding another thing that made the BG series so special. It wasn't just playing the same character in the sequel. It was continuing to level the same character. BIO even got flack for BG2 for taking  away most of the BG1 equipment and companions yet this somehow is better. As for the soul sucking, it is just a story excuse to delevel you because of lack of imagination.  Though, I do hope we can eventually fight said god.

 

 

P.S. AD&D is awesome.  The BG series/IE games were fun but they didn't even come close to doing it justice. AD&D 2E is not vanilla or simple.  But, hey, when the games skip out on secondary skills and non weapon proficiencies, I could see why the ignorant might think that. If you don't know what those terms are you shouldn't be debating or bashing 2E. Just stick to the dumbed down (but still enjoyable) IE versions.

[Eumaios]

Seems to me that there could be skills in the game that don't make me feel like they detract from what is built as a combat sim.  It would be cool for the game to offer something that plays a role other than a non-stop killing machine.  Most CRPGs don't seem to do that well, although I did get a kick out of the way different things like magic and thieving skills unfolded in Planescape.  That was a great game that gave the player something to do other than fight non-stop.  Also, I'd like to have a non-combat solution to the final boss.  Yeah, games want to make it harder and harder to kill the boss.  I don't mind starting at level one so much.  Not ideal, but I can take it.  I just want to feel like maybe my guy doesn't spend every second of the day either slicing down some random noob or counting the gold fillings he yanks out of the noob once he dispatches him.

[Flouride]

Can't say the official news surprised me.  Personally I am fine with it.  They are going to introduce real multi classing, new mechanics, and a new take on class kits?  It only makes sense to start back at level 1.  I wish they had just done a fresh story instead, but lots of people wanted closure on the Eothas plot so I can forgive it.

 

Especially since it ends up in Deadfire Archipelago, one of the regions I thought sounded most interesting on paper.

 

 

In my opinion going with lvl 1 character is the best choice out of the 3. People would be even more pissed off if story of the Watcher ended in Pillars 1 and designing a fun game for level 20+ characters seems really cumbersome and would be really hard for any new players to jump in. It would be pretty brutal to try and learn the game when every enemy you face will melt your face in matter of seconds.

 

This said, I wouldn't be surprised if they have few tricks up in their sleeves that they don't want to talk about due to spoilers, just to make some "ammends" for draining our souls back to level 1.

[Flouride]

I guess this means we're probably losing all our hard earned gear as well

 

Goodbye Sabra Marie, you were my beautiful trophy from finally beating that stupid dragon, and I will miss you dearly.

 

Edit: Please let me save my menagerie of small vanity pets. That little bog bat was everything to me ;_;

 

I'm sure Eothas will take good care of your precious bog bat and will give it back if you ask nicely

[Eumaios]

Ha!   I think they'll have you start at level 1, give you increments of super soul juice in the first hour, and level you up in three or four traunches up to level 10 and then start you on the adventure proper.  Well... probably not, but it would be funny if the did.  Plus, that solution gives you a high level adventure, gives a tutorial to new players, and lets you design your character from scratch.  I hate the ide, but it's an interesting if terrible solution.

[adikKt]

I am sorry if it has been already posted here, but it has been confirmed in the campaign forum that we will be starting at lvl 1.

Edited January 28, 2017 by adikKt

[Eumaios]

looking at fig, I can definitely say that, along with lowballing the starting level, Obsidian lowballed the starting figure.  There's no way they don't believe they'll get a hell of a lot more money.  It's funded at 121%?  Give me a break.

 

Not that I'm complaining.  They made their finesse roll, as it seems to me.

 

Now, as for the level one thing...  I think it was all a bad dream and Eothas is still around, only now he's the anti-god fighting for the mortal races and trying to level the playing field.  He's good, but he's bad.