Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear RELEASED

[HoonDing]

It's sure getting bombed on Steam and Metacritic

 

gotta love that vocal minority

[Nonek]

I have to ask to those who've finished the game, is it true that the antagonist is

Belhifet the Baatezu lord from IWD? If so how is the gulf in power between the Bhaalspawn and IWD adventurers handled? Its not true that the Bhaalspawn actually ventures into Avernus is it? I mean an immortal like the Nameless one with a party of equally powerful freaks may manage such a thing, but an adventurer with a few low level abilities from his heritage would just be absolutely destroyed. Are they even equipped with the requisite items needed to combat high level Baatezu on their own plane, after all the Baatezu become more powerful on their own planes, to the point where (I think it was) the Yugoloths captured a god who intruded into Gehenna, skinned him and kept his hide as adornment for one of their fortresses.

 

This just seems like really unbalanced fan fiction, not exactly unknown in a mod but utterly destroying the internal logic of the game, after all how could Irenicus' goons capture those who can just march into the midst of the Blood War, something gods and immortals dread.

 

[ShadySands]

To answer Nonek

 

 

I have to ask to those who've finished the game, is it true that the antagonist is Belhifet the Baatezu lord from IWD? If so how is the gulf in power between the Bhaalspawn and IWD adventurers handled? Its not true that the Bhaalspawn actually ventures into Avernus is it? I mean an immortal like the Nameless one with a party of equally powerful freaks may manage such a thing, but an adventurer with a few low level abilities from his heritage would just be absolutely destroyed. Are they even equipped with the requisite items needed to combat high level Baatezu on their own plane, after all the Baatezu become more powerful on their own planes, to the point where (I think it was) the Yugoloths captured a god who intruded into Gehenna, skinned him and kept his hide as adornment for one of their fortresses.

 

This just seems like really unbalanced fan fiction, not exactly unknown in a mod but utterly destroying the internal logic of the game, after all how could Irenicus' goons capture those who can just march into the midst of the Blood War, something gods and immortals dread

 

Yes, you enter Avernus and defeat Belhifet. It's a bit odd that my level 9 sorc and his party could accomplish this but yes, that is what happens

 

 

[Nonek]

Wow, well thank you Mr Sands, think i'll stick to the original games based on that however.

[ShadySands]

I thought it was pretty good overall but it definitely went a bit off the rails towards the end

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

To answer Nonek

 

 

 

I have to ask to those who've finished the game, is it true that the antagonist is Belhifet the Baatezu lord from IWD? If so how is the gulf in power between the Bhaalspawn and IWD adventurers handled? Its not true that the Bhaalspawn actually ventures into Avernus is it? I mean an immortal like the Nameless one with a party of equally powerful freaks may manage such a thing, but an adventurer with a few low level abilities from his heritage would just be absolutely destroyed. Are they even equipped with the requisite items needed to combat high level Baatezu on their own plane, after all the Baatezu become more powerful on their own planes, to the point where (I think it was) the Yugoloths captured a god who intruded into Gehenna, skinned him and kept his hide as adornment for one of their fortresses.

 

This just seems like really unbalanced fan fiction, not exactly unknown in a mod but utterly destroying the internal logic of the game, after all how could Irenicus' goons capture those who can just march into the midst of the Blood War, something gods and immortals dread

 

 

Yes, you enter Avernus and defeat Belhifet. It's a bit odd that my level 9 sorc and his party could accomplish this but yes, that is what happens

 

That sounds bad but are the encounters good?

[ShadySands]

I dunno because I'm a cheater

 

Sorry

[ktchong]

 

Amber Scott, writer for the new Baldur's Gate has written a D&D adventure before. I remember it for all the wrong reasons.

 

She wrote an adventure for Paizo's Wrath of the Righteous adventure path, The Worldwound Incursion. I remembered her name immediately because it was one of the ****ing worst written parts of the adventure path, by far. If this is how she plans to write Baldur's Gate, it's gonna be a must skip game.

 

For those not in the know about tabletop gaming, there is a term called 'railroading'. It's when you essentially remove the ability of players to choose different paths, and force them to stay on a very linear approach that meets your predefined plot line. It's considered to be very bad form. Even when you need to get the players to follow a predesigned path, you're supposed to present 'the illusion of choice'.

 

The adventure opens with all the players in a cave, and then gives you a long ass flashback about how they got there. Flashbacks in tabletop gaming are /bad/. Railroading to the nth degree. The adventure then goes down a series of linear caves, though it does get it's crap together for awhile after that.

 

What I remembered most, though, was the useless fluff and the SJW shoehorning. She wrote a ton of material that explains why rooms look like they do, but never provides any way for the players to get this information. The whole adventure reads like a novel rather than something thats supposed to be cooperative storytelling.

 

She shoehorned in a gay male couple, and also a transgender NPC and her lesbian wife. The thing that completely saves it was she is so mind meltingly bad at writing that she doesn't actually remember to get these plot elements involved in any way. She wrote a **** ton of back story for the NPCs, then never gives you any clue how your supposed to introduce it or why it even matters.

 

I was so goddamned angry, and not because of the forced diversity. It's because she introduced these characters exclusively because she want to force people to deal with them and get in their headspace, and then she gave /NO INFORMATION/ on how to play them. One of the most difficult aspects in DMing a game is understanding characters motivations and why they act the way they do. In the most charitable interpretation, she wrote these damned tokenist characters then expected me to know how they think because they're something she throws into all her adventures. In the least, she just wanted to make ****lords uncomfortable.

 

Amber, if you're reading this, I changed them hetero, because you gave me nothing to work with. Learn how to write cooperative fantasy if this is what you want to do.

FWIW, The rest of the adventures, written by other writers, in the line are pretty good. Loved the second and it's freeform stringing together of 'minisodes'.

 

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/4d45tn/amber_scott_writer_for_the_new_baldurs_gate_has/

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I dunno because I'm a cheater

 

Sorry

That explains how the level 9 sorcerer was able to take down a Devil Lord.

[zered]

Hahaha

 

http://archive.is/tlJCs

 

Nice ****storm they've got.

[213374U]

What would be quite humorous in my opinion is to have the Cleric at the end of their narcissistic lecture say in closing, "Please donate to my Patron." This is quite a fitting play on words, referencing churches habits of taking donations, Tempus being her patron in a spiritual sense, while at the same time referencing the modern phenomena of spoiled young adults begging online like the genuinely needy, instead of working for a living.

That would require the ability to laugh at yourself -- something these people have shown a distinct lack of. Considering that the writer in question is a Sarkeesian fan, that could be taken (and therefore would be taken) as taking a potshot.

 

Also: How To Shoot Yourself In The Foot (lol)

 

Sigh. I've made a deliberate effort to avoid the GG drama, but it seems to be everywhere now.

 

Me, I'm having fun so far, haven't found any glaring technical issues and the quality of the writing seems to be about on par with the original BG1. I suspect people often forget to take off their rose-tinted glasses before talking about it. Some stuff does seem forced -foreshadowing should be subtler- but nothing that has managed to seriously erode my suspension of disbelief. I'm not very far in yet, though.

Edited April 4, 2016 by 213374U

[Mamoulian War]

 

The biggest crime is how boring that dialog seems. I bet they don't give you any choice to engage with the subject at all. They want to make a progressive point but are probably too afraid to write anything with any real bite. To give the player something to think about other than, "This is the correct thing to think".

 

I bet they could get a lot more respect if they would engage the player with a dialog and not just try to give them a diversity seminar.

 

I find it all rather odd. I've been watching this from the sidelines. Beamdog went back to try and 'fix' the original game as it's quite 'sexist'. Safana has been 'fixed' so she doesn't come across as a sex object and Jaheira has been 'fixed' so she doesn't come across as the 'nagging wife'.

 

I thought Beamdog was making Siege of Dragonspear as an expansion that told the story between BG1 and BG2. Apparently, making a story between two games wasn't enough. They had to go back and 'fix' the original game.  

 

 

Did they really changed the original dialogue text of Safana and Jaheira in BG1? Don't care much about Jaheira, but Safana was with Viconia my favourite female NPC in the game, and changing personality of any of them is good enough reason for me, to not bother with Beamdog's games any more...

[ShadySands]

I never kept Safana around in BG1 but she was my go to thief in SoD so I can't say if she was changed. She seems to be a romance option this time around but I can't say for sure as I didn't pursue it beyond a certain point

[Gromnir]

 

 

The biggest crime is how boring that dialog seems. I bet they don't give you any choice to engage with the subject at all. They want to make a progressive point but are probably too afraid to write anything with any real bite. To give the player something to think about other than, "This is the correct thing to think".

 

I bet they could get a lot more respect if they would engage the player with a dialog and not just try to give them a diversity seminar.

 

I find it all rather odd. I've been watching this from the sidelines. Beamdog went back to try and 'fix' the original game as it's quite 'sexist'. Safana has been 'fixed' so she doesn't come across as a sex object and Jaheira has been 'fixed' so she doesn't come across as the 'nagging wife'.

 

I thought Beamdog was making Siege of Dragonspear as an expansion that told the story between BG1 and BG2. Apparently, making a story between two games wasn't enough. They had to go back and 'fix' the original game.  

 

 

Did they really changed the original dialogue text of Safana and Jaheira in BG1? Don't care much about Jaheira, but Safana was with Viconia my favourite female NPC in the game, and changing personality of any of them is good enough reason for me, to not bother with Beamdog's games any more...

 

 the bg companions were poorly developed caricatures that had whatever personality you imagined into 'em, 'cause they had virtual 0 personality as written.  coran had the most character development o' any bg companion, and he were essentially an unapologetic deadbeat dad.  the rest o' the companions were little more than a collection o' frequently ill-timed catchphrases with vo accompaniment.  for beamdog to be concerned 'bout bg's sexist companions is just as ridiculous as the rose hued recollections o' bg fans. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sabotin]

I quite enjoyed the game.

 

I think they struck a nice balance between various rpg aspects. The main themes and story line are present throughout the game, with the side quests not being too far detached. It's grounded enough not to feel like some silly fan fiction, but in keeping with the lighter tone of the world from the BG series. The companions seemed better integrated than in BG1, so more BG2 style conversations happen. They've also added some optional companion meddling in certain quest resolutions which I think is a nice touch.

 

Items seemed prety diverse and interesting with some new effects. Encounters depend on the difficulty, like in PoE, but I can say they are usualy larger in scope than BG1, i.e. more enemies.

 

Graphically I'd prefer the more pixellated, but sharper pictures of the originals. From the screenshots I was expecting the black borders on sprites to bother me, but it turned out not to be a big deal, specialy on the darker backgrounds. I did notice some attention to detail, like dust clouds on dry terrain or fog in damp areas.

 

QoL changes, like the UI or auto search for traps felt more modern, though like everyone else I do have my pet peeve - the neon colored XP bar in the character window looks pretty bad.

 

Bugs I have encountered were... two? The final video didn't fire the first time. And Rasaad refused to auto attack on the "Advanced AI" script.

[Gfted1]

Seems the people that have played it, like it, and others pissing and moaning about what they dont know. Sounds about right.

 

I am interested in this "cheating" you speak of Shady. Can you no longer free rest wherever and whenever I like an unlimited amount of times without consequence? Enable godmode?

[ShadySands]

Well, I missed most of the SJW nonsense during my playthrough so it's not like they are filling the game with it. I agree that it's largely out of place in a world where you can change gender with a spell or item of clothing. If anything I'd be more upset at such a lazy attempt to insert whatever their personal politics are rather than the politics themself. 

 

 

I just used EE Keeper to pump up my spell casting so that I could sling tons of spells before resting. As for resting, I seemed to be able to rest whenever though to be fair since I had so many casts I didn't need to rest as much.

 

Like I said before I really liked the game but it definitely isn't without flaws

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Did they really changed the original dialogue text of Safana and Jaheira in BG1? Don't care much about Jaheira, but Safana was with Viconia my favourite female NPC in the game, and changing personality of any of them is good enough reason for me, to not bother with Beamdog's games any more...

 

Yes. The same with Minsc and his one line reference to GG. Just when you think the whole GG thing has died down, they do this to a well known character. As I said, Beamdog have said the original game is sexist. And if you don't like the changes well then you're "not real Baldurs Gate fans" and "If people don't like it, then too bad". I think the PR from Beamdog is getting worse when you're telling fans that they're not 'real fans' and for them to tell their customers too bad. If I buy something from a shop and there's something I don't like, I don't expect the seller to say to me 'if you don't like it, then too bad'.

 

Anyway, I have a free Steam key and I'm playing through this and finding some anomalous bugs. One is if you're playing on the harder difficulties including the hardest (Legacy of Bhaal) and you happen to reload a save game, sometimes the game will lower the difficulty. Even lowering it to Story Mode which has happened to me quite often where your character is invulnerable, has a STR of 25, a THAC0 in the minuses and can deal acid damage on any weapon you wield even with your fists. They know about this bug so hopefully it will get patched soon.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Excalibur_2102]

Just so you know, Im pretty sure the original games havent been touched...  They just meant they tried to expand their personalities in SoD.

 

Just tested, the characters dialogue in BG1EE is exactly the same, the line Hiro is talking about is in SoD only

Edited April 4, 2016 by Excalibur_2102

[Gromnir]

 

Did they really changed the original dialogue text of Safana and Jaheira in BG1? Don't care much about Jaheira, but Safana was with Viconia my favourite female NPC in the game, and changing personality of any of them is good enough reason for me, to not bother with Beamdog's games any more...

 

Yes. The same with Minsc and his one line reference to GG. Just when you think the whole GG thing has died down, they do this to a well known character. As I said, Beamdog have said the original game is sexist. And if you don't like the changes well then you're "not real Baldurs Gate fans" and "If people don't like it, then too bad". 

can you link the quotes?  we did a quick search o' beamdog articles and posts that use, "not real Baldurs Gate fans," and came up with nothing. have not heard beamdog make such claims so am curious of the context. having read few articles 'bout sod, we is very much ignorant 'bout it save for broad stroke generalizations.  our traffic at the beamdog fora is equal limited.  links to actual posts or articles would be helpful in this case.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

Just so you know, Im pretty sure the original games havent been touched...  They just meant they tried to expand their personalities in SoD.

 

Just tested, the characters dialogue in BG1EE is exactly the same, the line Hiro is talking about is in SoD only

 

Yeah, there's obviously some obligation not to change the existing dialogue in BG1/2 and only make new or additional content.

 

(That may be because despite WotC owning the setting etc Bioware and hence EA actually owns the existing dialogue. They even updated the copyright record to add EA in as an interested party.)

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I imagine it's not the official response from Beamdog, however some of the employees have deleted some of their tweets.

 

http://archive.is/tlJCs

@Jezebelmagazine @fremfreq These are not real @BaldursGate fans

 

From Dee on the Beamdog forums (I don't have a link atm): Lesson learned, tweet deleted. Of course the original poster in this thread is using a web archive link (which is something I've seen a lot in the last 48 hours, interestingly enough), so I guess deleting the tweet is irrelevant.

 

-------

 

Now it's appearing on Breitbart of all places. It's getting very surreal.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/04/developers-response-to-baldurs-gate-controversy-misses-the-point/

 

Also the other quote is in the breitbart article (from a kotaku article) about changing the characters of Safana and Jaheria and if you don't like it, then too bad.

 

-------

 

Also, I spoiled myself with the ending by looking at the spoiler with the end boss in this thread. I wish I didn't now. I'll have to see how it makes sense because at the moment, I'm scratching my head thinking, um what.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Also, I should add that according to one Steam achievement (with Khalid and Jaheira).

 

 

 

 

You become a marriage counsellor?

 

 

 

[Jotra]

Also, I should add that according to one Steam achievement (with Khalid and Jaheira).

 

 

 

 

You become a marriage counsellor?

 

 

 

 

Khalid has a small quest where he wants to find spider silk to make a present for Jaheira. That quest felt more like foreshadowing Khalid dying than anything else.

[Gromnir]

a bit misleading considering your quotes.  does not appear to be a claim  by beamdog that, "if you don't like the changes well then you're "not real Baldurs Gate fans."  if am reading correct, an assistant producer at beamdog is angered by a perceived negative review campaign.  is more than a little different than were suggested.  is neither an admonishment by beamdog and it is not directed simple at those who do not appreciate changes. 

 

in the article you linked, we saw an actual response from t. oster... one o' the few beamdog responses that we could see folks latching on to as representative o' a beamdog response.  

 

"I find the controversy ridiculous. Yes, we have a transgendered character. I know a number of transgendered people and they are genuine, wonderful humans. Yes, we also have a character who cracks a joke about ethics. The original Baldur’s Gate had a whole sequence about the Bob Newhart show. If this generates controversy it makes a sad statement about the world we live in."

 

*shrug*

 

am tending to agree with oster that any kinda outrage over this silliness is ridiculous.  converse, while we ain't played the game, if a transparent political agenda has been inserted into the narrative without caring whether or not such inclusion makes the story better is a failure on the part o' the developer... albeit a very minor one considering how limited the addition appears to be.  that being said, we had a hearty chuckle when interplay mocked scientology in fallout.

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Hubologists

 

would be height o' hypocrisy if we found the humor in thin-veiled ridicule o' scientology while chastising beamdog for a seeming more limited shot at gg, no?

 

thanks for links, but unless we see something far different from beamdog than what you has provided, we can't see any justification in attributing a claim that, "if you don't like the changes well then you're "not real Baldurs Gate fans," to the developer o' sod.

 

HA! Good Fun!