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i really can't stand steam, but most of my games seem to be held hostage by it... *sigh* so, i still use it anyway.

 

 Yes, DRM is great (for Steam, and terrible for everybody that isn't Steam).

 

 

i really can't stand steam, but most of my games seem to be held hostage by it... *sigh* so, i still use it anyway.

Pretty much this. At least for the "newer" games, including some indies.

 

And if it wasn't Steam, it'd be another company's similar "service."

Or console service.

 

 If a game uses DRM, I don't buy it. If enough people did that, DRM would go away. If everyone did that, DRM would have gone away already. 

 

...

Service, service, service.

 

 

 In the cattle ranching industry, "service" is the word they use for what a stud bull does to a cow. In the gaming industry, it's the word for what Steam, in cooperation with most of the game publishers, does to their customers. Coincidence? I think not.

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Little extreme, I think. Steam does offer a decent service and value to people. Heck, they even implemented a decent return policy. Offline mode has made strides as well.

 

A lot of it comes down to ownership. There is this well established idea that you buy something and take ownership of it, and should have full rights to it. The new model is more of a lease or subscription. This isn't just about digital content, you are seeing it with phones, cars, etc.

 

Both models have value. I like the idea that my car will be paid off and I can just consider it an asset, but I also like the idea that when I tire of it in 3 years I can get the latest and greatest.

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I have no problem at all with a genuine subscription option like with Origin Access- you pay your money for x time, and after that time you renew or lose access, same as for a car or anything else. That's either worth it to you, or not.

 

Steam however slaps the subscription label on the ownership model for no reason except it makes it easier and more profitable for them, and the benefits of that change are 100% theirs. For the buyer it's a far worse deal.

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But Steam really isn't giving you full ownership when you buy something from them. They give you a license. You have to play it through their software, even in offline mode. It is in their best interest to make sure you always have access to those games, but honestly you have fairly limited rights. They are a heck of a lot better than the iTune store, at least. Apple makes it a huge hassle to access the content you have paid for if something goes wrong. 

 

I'm actually curious what happens to your Steam library when you die. I know Apple does not let you transfer it.

 

But yeah, don't think of it as ownership. I see benefits though. It is a huge benefit to me that all my games are in one place and when I get a new computer, all I need to do is log in to get them. They are easy to get patched up, and I get spiffy badges. I have a few CD cases buried in my garage and I remember what a hassle it used to be to manage them and try to get them to work on new computers. I'm happy not to go back to those days.

 

edit: I also think we need to remember that these games aren't that valuable. They drop precipitously after the first month or so in most cases. Do I really need to own 300 games, 95 percent of which I will never play again?  

Edited by Hurlshot

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Yeah, but the only reason Steam is a 'subscription' and the only ones to benefit from it being a sub are Valve themselves. You objectively have better terms from GOG and from old DVDs/ CDs than you get from Valve. And having to install and (mostly) play through the steam client is not a benefit to the general population, it's a benefit to Valve since it keeps their software on your computer, indeed that consumer unfriendly behaviour is the primary reason steam could take off; it was bundled and you had to keep it installed.

 

There's literally no benefit to the buyer from it being a sub. Software being licensed is not in itself significant- it was licensed when it was sold on CDs or floppies- but the SSA is explicit about Steam being a subscription service, hence it being the Steam Subscriber Agreement. Origin Access is a subscription service by its nature since you're paying for access explicitly for a set time, Steam is a subscription service because it lessens their legal obligations.

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being a fallout 4 and skyrim/skyrim-se mod using gamer forced to use steam, the auto update "feature" that i can't really turn off... is incredibly annoying. and if i happen to start up skse64 without making sure steam is already running (otherwise it auto updates on the spot when steam autoruns, causing me to update all my mods usually taking a few hours if i'm lucky, assuming/hoping that all those mods i'm using actually have the correct updates available), and simply doing a boatload of mod updating might just bork my current savegames then and there, or i might be waiting several days for the next version of skse to be released. nothing good has come of using steam for fallout4 or skyrim, for me quite the opposite.

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Yesterday, upon the stair, I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today, I wish, I wish he'd go away... -Hughes Mearns

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Little extreme, I think. Steam does offer a decent service and value to people. Heck, they even implemented a decent return policy. Offline mode has made strides as well.

 

 

 It is a little extreme. I should probably have added one of these  :dancing:  or maybe one of these  :devil: to the final sentence.

 

 However, if DRM went away, everything would be better. Steam would be better because you would be able to download and back up runnable copies of any game you wanted to be sure that you can continue to play it. Gog would also be better because the publishers who don't currently publish on Gog - out of a mistaken belief that making their games harder to purchase is a good way to get more sales - would no longer do that. 

 

As it currently stands, anyone who buys games can only vote on the DRM issue by choosing to buy on Steam or Gog. Buying a game on Steam means that you are ok with restrictions on what would otherwise be your legal rights to the game. Buying on Gog (or choosing not to buy a game that isn't available on Gog due to DRM) is a vote to get rid of DRM and have access to your games for as long as you want.

 

 Maybe Steam will be around longer than any of us posting here and DRM will never be a problem. Maybe Steam will run into hard times and get bought by someone who will charge you subscription fees to access your games. Maybe nobody will buy them and their DRM servers will just be shut down. Maybe something else.  

Edited by Yonjuro
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The problem I have with Steam like stuff is if the "services" they offer are nothing I want, they're just in my way or bloat things up, when all I want to do is buy, install, and play a game. Where's the "none of that stuff, Lite version" I can download?

 

My irritation with Steam would lessen by about 50% if they would:

 

1 - allow the user to COMPLETELY HALT auto-updating, at least for single-player games. I should be able to choose when I want to apply a latest patch. The "only update the game when I launch" does zip, since as soon as Steam detects you have a game that needs updating, you can't run the game again until you update it. At least, none of the games I own will run without updating. >.>

2 - allow the user to COMPLETELY HALT Steam from any similar kind of auto-updating re: specific game (auto-updates to the Steam client, eh, fine), including Workshop mods for a specific game.

 

When I decided I'd finally try nvidia experience a while back, upon install it automatically started a process of checking my disk for games and installing profiles for said games, without asking if I even wanted this to be done. There was no way to stop it, it was part of the install process. Are the profiles harmful? No. That's not the point. I wanted to try Shadowplay, not install "game ready" profiles I have no need for and are impossible to delete/remove without completely reinstalling nvidia drivers or using a 3rd party program. Blanket installs, things I have no use for/no choices given, and update processes like this are what I can't stand and it's what software seems to be these days. And I dislike it intensely, thus I dislike Steam.

Edited by LadyCrimson
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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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Just realized, this means 2077 will be releasing on GOG. Unlike the The Witchers I might get this on Gog instead. I think my love affair with Steam is finally coming to an end.

GOG does give away a lot games and has better curation but their return policy is ridiculous, not that love Steam either...Humble bundle FTW.


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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I really wish GOG would work with Humble. It would be for me the perfect combination.


Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play STASIS and CAYNE (completed)

My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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Thanks for reminding me about Humble

 

In totally unrelated news, I'd suspect the key giveaway thread may get a bump tomorrow

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Free games updated 3/6/19

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Not me, that's for sure. It's a solid adventure game, but a terrible Monkey Island, because it's ignoring all the lore of the previous games.

 

 

How Herman got to Monkey Island is explained right in the first game, and it wasn't because of a storm during a race. He didn't lose his memory, and he's definitely not some missing politician.

 

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Neither me :-P

 

But I voted for Inquisitor Martyr to be added to GOG library

 

You can vote for that wish here, as well :-

 

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/warhammer_40000_inquisitor_martyr

Edited by Mamoulian War

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play STASIS and CAYNE (completed)

My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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The problem I have with Steam like stuff is if the "services" they offer are nothing I want, they're just in my way or bloat things up, when all I want to do is buy, install, and play a game. Where's the "none of that stuff, Lite version" I can download?

 

My irritation with Steam would lessen by about 50% if they would:

 

1 - allow the user to COMPLETELY HALT auto-updating, at least for single-player games. I should be able to choose when I want to apply a latest patch. The "only update the game when I launch" does zip, since as soon as Steam detects you have a game that needs updating, you can't run the game again until you update it. At least, none of the games I own will run without updating. >.>

2 - allow the user to COMPLETELY HALT Steam from any similar kind of auto-updating re: specific game (auto-updates to the Steam client, eh, fine), including Workshop mods for a specific game.

 

When I decided I'd finally try nvidia experience a while back, upon install it automatically started a process of checking my disk for games and installing profiles for said games, without asking if I even wanted this to be done. There was no way to stop it, it was part of the install process. Are the profiles harmful? No. That's not the point. I wanted to try Shadowplay, not install "game ready" profiles I have no need for and are impossible to delete/remove without completely reinstalling nvidia drivers or using a 3rd party program. Blanket installs, things I have no use for/no choices given, and update processes like this are what I can't stand and it's what software seems to be these days. And I dislike it intensely, thus I dislike Steam.

 

Amen, brother. It certainly feels like around 2010 every company out there (especially tech) decided to switch to a model of ensnaring and holding you captive, rather than make and sell things you want. Everything is about trying to pull you into an ecosystem of relentless cross selling in perpetuum. Don't own your car, lease it. Don't own your phone be on our automatic upgrade plan. Don't own that software, license it. Want to use that scanner you just bought? You have to accept all of the mal/spyware packaged with the interfacing application in order to do so. HEY YOUR PRINTER IS 87% AWAY FROM BEING EMPTY. BUY SOME MORE TONER FROM ME!!!! I'm glad I know how to use Windows registry to tame software that would otherwise break if you pulled it apart any other way. Sadly, anything after Windows 7 is pure malware, so all of that registry knowledge will die as I transition to Linux, and await Vulkan.

 

I haven't used steam for years, despite it being installed. I struggle to think of what games I even have on my steam account. The most attention is when I occasionally have GoG check my library for cross-overs--not that I miss anything which hasn't transferred yet.

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being a fallout 4 and skyrim/skyrim-se mod using gamer forced to use steam, the auto update "feature" that i can't really turn off... is incredibly annoying. and if i happen to start up skse64 without making sure steam is already running (otherwise it auto updates on the spot when steam autoruns, causing me to update all my mods usually taking a few hours if i'm lucky, assuming/hoping that all those mods i'm using actually have the correct updates available), and simply doing a boatload of mod updating might just bork my current savegames then and there, or i might be waiting several days for the next version of skse to be released. nothing good has come of using steam for fallout4 or skyrim, for me quite the opposite.

 

What mods do you use that require so much time updating when Steam bumps a version? Only things that come to mind for me are SKSE and the stuff depending on it, which I think are three or four mods. Still, having to keep a backup exe around and/or waiting for SKSE to update everytime Valve touches that creation club crap is hellishly annoying.

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Tower of Time has arrived on GOG!!!

 

https://www.gog.com/news/release_tower_of_time

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Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play STASIS and CAYNE (completed)

My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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Surprise:

The unofficial Wizardry sequel Wizards & Warriors has been released on GoG. Who'd have thought? Not me.

 

That game has upset me forever. First, I didn't get into that weird real time turn based combat mix. In my next attempt, I got into it just fine, but my computer broke down the very next morning. The third try failed due to the games' weird hardware requirements. I wonder if I should give it another go. For now, I've just wishlisted it.

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Stellaris is now on GOG.

 

Here's hoping this is only the beginning and we'll see the complete Paradox catalog there. It's at least a step towards regaining goodwill after the whole Gamersgate debacle.

 

I'm tempted to buy it again.

 

(and something something about voting for a giveaway)

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I was hoping that Jack Keane would be on the giveaway candidate list.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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