S34d0g Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share Posted April 13, 2015 I wish I could do this, but - as you can see - other instances of shoddy writing belie such an interpretation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natusake Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) See the attached screenshot with the contents of a book I found. Am I the only one whose gears are ground by this kind of ineptitude? I'm probably one of the biggest proponents for correct grammar and the importance of it on this forum, however it's a game in a fictional world. Who is to that isn't grammatically correct in that world? Who is to say that even if it is grammatically incorrect for that world, that the fictional author of the book didn't fudge it up. So what? Chalk it up to a grammatically inept monk, priest, historian, or whomever wrote the book, and move on. The contents of no in game book should break your immersion unless it's contents have real world references, references to something that doesn't belong in Eora (ie: book is schematics for the Death Star), or breaks the 4th wall in some manner. That's like arguing that it's okay for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correct spelling and grammar. That's silly, and it wouldn't hold up to any sort of literary scrutiny unless those mistakes were intentional and consistent. But the questions arise: are they intentional? Are they consistent? If not, then we cannot be lenient in our critique of this aspect, and certainly not when regarding a game as this; this game is meant to be for the higher-minded individuals, with developers even saying things so bold as "it's not ****ing baby ****". With words filled with such confidence and certainty, how can we, in the face of ****ing baby ****, allow it to pass us by? Edited April 14, 2015 by Natusake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanishedOne Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 See the attached screenshot with the contents of a book I found. Am I the only one whose gears are ground by this kind of ineptitude? Also 'shows love' --> 'showeth love' and 'pulls me' -- 'pulleth me'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonntam Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It' hilarious when people forget that proper grammar in Old English was not much of a thing. It wasn't uncommon to write things down how people thought it should be spelt. And if people disagreed... well, the important part is that it's understood what the author meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varana Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Spelling =/= Grammar. Therefore I have sailed the seas and come To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats Χριστός ἀνέστη! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natusake Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It' hilarious when people forget that proper grammar in Old English was not much of a thing. It wasn't uncommon to write things down how people thought it should be spelt. And if people disagreed... well, the important part is that it's understood what the author meant. What Varana said. Although spelling was up to the individual and very variant, the grammar and conjugations were, for the most part, consistent. Also, this isn't Old English, nor is it even Middle English. Old English is Ænglisc, and Middle English is this. What we are concerning ourselves with is Early Modern English. If you're good, you might be able to understand Middle English after you learn what some of the new unused runes mean. Old English is a bit harder, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasta11 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I pray you never read Moby ****, OP. EDIT: Oh come on now, that's censored? Well it's the book with a white whale and a captain with anger issues. Edited April 13, 2015 by Jasta11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemonjax Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) It' hilarious when people forget that proper grammar in Old English was not much of a thing. It wasn't uncommon to write things down how people thought it should be spelt. And if people disagreed... well, the important part is that it's understood what the author meant. What Varana said. Although spelling was up to the individual and very variant, the grammar and conjugations were, for the most part, consistent. Also, this isn't Old English, nor is it even Middle English. Old English is Ænglisc, and Middle English is this. What we are concerning ourselves with is Early Modern English. If you're good, you might be able to understand Middle English after you learn what some of the new unused runes mean. Old English is a bit harder, though. When I was at University back in the day, we had to read (and actually understand) Beowulf in the original Old English. That was fun. Chaucer (Middle English) was significantly easier. Edited April 13, 2015 by Daemonjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strigoi Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 One more, in case any Obsidian QA mole lurks here, fishing for errors to fix in the next patch... http://imgur.com/mzKfAVr Yeah, I find those examples much more jarring than the ones regarding Old English. I found some typos and screw-ups rather unpleasant. I frankly don't mind small syntax or ortography mistakes in Old English, nowadays. At least, not in the 'your dumb' era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slategrey252 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exyll Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Most people cant even grasp modern english, much less reading ole english prose, in a video game, from a book, on a random shelf, in a dungeon, when you were supposed to be finding out about the Hollowborn. Think of the kids dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just kill stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsaucers Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Spelling =/= Grammar. Yeah it does, actually. Case in point: "They don't think it be like it is, but it do." How do you know this sentence contains improper grammar? Because of the word "be," which should be spelled is, and because of the word do, which should also be spelled is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsuelm Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) See the attached screenshot with the contents of a book I found. Am I the only one whose gears are ground by this kind of ineptitude? I'm probably one of the biggest proponents for correct grammar and the importance of it on this forum, however it's a game in a fictional world. Who is to that isn't grammatically correct in that world? Who is to say that even if it is grammatically incorrect for that world, that the fictional author of the book didn't fudge it up. So what? Chalk it up to a grammatically inept monk, priest, historian, or whomever wrote the book, and move on. The contents of no in game book should break your immersion unless it's contents have real world references, references to something that doesn't belong in Eora (ie: book is schematics for the Death Star), or breaks the 4th wall in some manner. That's like arguing that it's okay for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correctly spelling and grammar. That's silly, and it wouldn't hold up to any sort of literary scrutiny unless those mistakes were intentional and consistent. But the questions arise: are they intentional? Are they consistent? If not, then we cannot be lenient in our critique of this aspect, and certainly not when regarding a game as this; this game is meant to be for the higher-minded individuals, with developers even saying things so bold as "it's not ****ing baby ****". With words filled with such confidence and certainty, how can we, in the face of ****ing baby ****, allow it to pass us by? They removed encumbrance, they removed ammo, they gave us a 'stash', they played babysitter in regards to their rest mechanic, they dumbed down the fighting options quite a bit compared to IE by removing other in combat and out of combat options... The game is not for 'higher minded' individuals. That aside. Yea... it is okay 'for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correctly spelling and grammar.' The grammar police have no jurisdiction on anything attributed as being written by or said by a fictional character within a fictional world. Which is the case with the OP's example. A fictional character in a fictional world is perfectly within their rights to gunk up grammar all they want, and whether it's intentional or consistent or not matters not. You misspelled 'misspelled' by the way. That's incorrect grammar. At least in American English, and the forum even indicates it as so. But does that really matter? Perhaps if the theory that universe in which we live is just some grand computer simulation on some higher dimensional being's computer is true then in their world there's some grammar police entity bent out of shape about your grammar whoopsies. Edited April 14, 2015 by Valsuelm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 4 mil is clearly not enough to hire a pro editor, but 'twas enough to feel entitled to remove a certain poem I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibanix Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Oh look, another person who finds [insert trivial reason] that their immersion is destroyed. Just play the f-ing game already. It will never be 100% perfect for 100% of the people. How can anyone in their right mind try to ship a multimillion dollar product without making absolutely sure that they don't upset all their players with a degree in Medieval English Linguistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt516 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Shows that Eothasians are boorish. I stumble over errors like these, too, but sadly, I'm not particularly upset about them; they've become too frequent, I fear. "Huh? Writer obviously didn't know what he was doing; let's move on." Except when it's intentional, but this is even rarer. Edit: Pallegina's Vailish is a recognisably different language. In this case, it's a set of very specific endings in a completely English poem. I doubt that that's on the same level. But the explanation with the old-fashioned Eothasians is nice (and probably true). She also pronounces "que?" as "quay?". Which isn't a problem or anything... it's just funny. I call her "Captain Quay". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natusake Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Spelling =/= Grammar. Yeah it does, actually. Case in point: "They don't think it be like it is, but it do." How do you know this sentence contains improper grammar? Because of the word "be," which should be spelled is, and because of the word do, which should also be spelled is. That would be considered a conjugation error, which falls under grammar. It is the wrong word; it is not misspelt. "be" is certainly spelt in that manner. This is correct spelling. It is, instead, incorrect grammar. That's like arguing that it's okay for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correctly spelling and grammar. That's silly, and it wouldn't hold up to any sort of literary scrutiny unless those mistakes were intentional and consistent. But the questions arise: are they intentional? Are they consistent? If not, then we cannot be lenient in our critique of this aspect, and certainly not when regarding a game as this; this game is meant to be for the higher-minded individuals, with developers even saying things so bold as "it's not ****ing baby ****". With words filled with such confidence and certainty, how can we, in the face of ****ing baby ****, allow it to pass us by? They removed encumbrance, they removed ammo, they gave us a 'stash', they played babysitter in regards to their rest mechanic, they dumbed down the fighting options quite a bit compared to IE by removing other in combat and out of combat options... The game is not for 'higher minded' individuals. That aside. Yea... it is okay 'for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correctly spelling and grammar.' The grammar police have no jurisdiction on anything attributed as being written by or said by a fictional character within a fictional world. Which is the case with the OP's example. A fictional character in a fictional world is perfectly within their rights to gunk up grammar all they want, and whether it's intentional or consistent or not matters not. You misspelled 'misspelled' by the way. That's incorrect grammar. At least in American English, and the forum even indicates it as so. But does that really matter? Perhaps if the theory that universe in which we live is just some grand computer simulation on some higher dimensional being's computer is true then in their world there's some grammar police entity bent out of shape about your grammar whoopsies. I said this game is *meant* for higher-minded individuals. The developers intended for the game to be complex and require good strategic thinking. Actually, my conclusion is a bit close to yours. My point is that, although the developers have attempted to make it as such, there are cases when it is not; as a result it is not completely what it is meant to be. It DOES matter, however, if grammar mistakes and misspellings are consistent and intentional. If they are, then they have the capacity to contribute to the narrative in a positive way. The books written by Cormac McCarthy are good examples of this. If they are not, then, them being not even an intentional effect placed by the author, they likely wont contribute much to the narrative, and they will create a disconnect which breaks immersion, as was the case with the OP. Fanfictions can be a good example of this. I'm not saying that it is "illegal" for such misspellings and grammar errors to take place. Instead, I am saying that those misspellings and grammar errors may detract from the narrative. Aside from your red herring at the end, it CAN matter. I personally prefer to use of the British version of the word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eos Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 How can anyone in their right mind try to ship a multimillion dollar product without making absolutely sure that they don't upset all their players with a degree in Medieval English Linguistics? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurhetemec Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 How can anyone in their right mind try to ship a multimillion dollar product without making absolutely sure that they don't upset all their players with a degree in Medieval English Linguistics? What's particularly funny is anyone with that degree should know that real Middle English texts are hilariously all-over-the-place in their use of grammar, spelling, and so on, often inconsistent even within a document. Don't even get me started on Latin. Romanes did not spel or grammer or number very gud, even when carving into stone. VIIII indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurhetemec Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 See the attached screenshot with the contents of a book I found. Am I the only one whose gears are ground by this kind of ineptitude? I'm probably one of the biggest proponents for correct grammar and the importance of it on this forum, however it's a game in a fictional world. Who is to that isn't grammatically correct in that world? Who is to say that even if it is grammatically incorrect for that world, that the fictional author of the book didn't fudge it up. So what? Chalk it up to a grammatically inept monk, priest, historian, or whomever wrote the book, and move on. The contents of no in game book should break your immersion unless it's contents have real world references, references to something that doesn't belong in Eora (ie: book is schematics for the Death Star), or breaks the 4th wall in some manner. That's like arguing that it's okay for misspelt words and incorrect grammar to be in a book because in the narrator's world it is correct spelling and grammar. It is okay. Just one example: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feersum-Endjinn-Iain-M-Banks/dp/1857232739 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibanix Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 How can anyone in their right mind try to ship a multimillion dollar product without making absolutely sure that they don't upset all their players with a degree in Medieval English Linguistics? ^ My new sig. Thanks! How can anyone in their right mind try to ship a multimillion dollar product without making absolutely sure that they don't upset all their players with a degree in Medieval English Linguistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blucher Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Which way to the nearest Ren Faire? EDIT: sorry, I meant to say, "Canst thou showest me on thine map, the nearest Ren Faire, if it pleaseth thee Mi'lord?" Edited April 14, 2015 by Blucher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atheosis Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I name thee nitpicker!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now