Why the hype?

[Schakar]

I enjoy the game and I plan to replay it. I don't share your opinion about having 0 reasons to replay the game.

 

But... I agree the game feels average and combat is a bit meh.

 

I'll still give it 9/10, wanna know why? Because there wasn't a game this good for a long long time. My expectation have dropped to abyssmal levels and this game, as flawed as it is, is just what I wanted to play. And there is your answer. Yes BG was better, but since then expecation for this kind of games have dropped severely.

Sad but true .

 

PoE is a solid game. That's it.

Less BUGs then many other games ... but still to many!

Can you imagin BMW or Toyota would release a new car where several parts aren't working as they should? Or a graphic card which has several BUGs?

ALL of you would instantly bring it back to the shop where you bought it!

 

I just can't understand, why users are so forgiving when it comes to software . It's a product like every other product! And creating software is in no way more complicate then crating a graphic card or car (hell, modern cars include billions of code lines too).

 

But all I ever see is this damn STUPID: "just a game" bull****!

Edited April 3, 2015 by Schakar

[Awathorn]

The writing and characters are better.

 

The combat is about as flawed and cheesy, having its own pros and cons.

 

Aesthetically it's much nicer looking, of course.

 

The setting IMO is more interesting and a welcome change from typical forgotten realms stuff.

 

 

Why is the setting more interesting? 

 

Soul stuff is quite cool and meaningful, but beside that, this world is so boring, flat and one-dimensional. Same goes for nearly all companions. Just a bunch of your average regular dudes doin' their thing. And some will say that is more realistic and whatnot, which may be true (you are more likely to run into plain farmer/soldier then into half-mad ranger who talks with hamster), but it is just not fun. Especially if those realistic characters have little impact on story and serve as a talking-fighting version of (not so interesting BTW) books you read. Not once it feels important to help your companion (Aloth), not once you develop some kind of relationship. If not for Durance and Grieving mother, to some extent, talking to them would be 100% chore. And there is 8 companions. Just 8. 

 

Overall, they tried to be more serious (well, it's not that hard compared to BG), yet failed.

 

It's the same formula over and over again, this time with the soul twist. Mix some things and voila - it's NWN2. At least BG was one of the first modern games that did all the cheesy, cliche stuff. PoE is cliche, cheesy stuff without humor. 

 

Oh, when talking about serious... This game has a number laughable ways to advance the plot or give you quests.

 

Hello stranger, say, would you do a super secret mission and kill a child for me? 

 

Hello stranger, I just heard my father asked you to kill a child, could you kill him please, please, please?

 

Hello cleric, I would need a bottle of poison... for my errrm, dog or cat, or something. Thanks!

 

Hey random dude in the forest. Could you invade this castle and kill an evil lord of this land?

 

Heya unknown foreigner in front of an inn/tradehouse/temple/whatever. Could we travel together? Yeah sure, I'll embark on a quest to rid the land of its plague and help you reclaim your sanity. 

 

Hello guard of a secret underground temple. I didn't bring my robes, can I and my party of five fully armed guys enter your fine establishment? We can? Supercool!

 

Uhm, could I borrow your mask, oh mighty member of clandestine evil-doing organization? I can, great. I forgot mine home. Now please recite the passwords a few times... Thanx, you're the man! 

 

Hell yeah, that borrowed mask did totally fooled that mind-reading chick.

 

And the list goes on and on...

 

 

So, I really don't see how could someone sing high praises for the story and the writing, or the combat. Best parts of the game are actually visuals and music. Everything else is good, mediocre with small touches of excellent and dreadful. Just did my first run, and I'm waiting for the patch to do second, but I'm fairly confident my 8/10 for PoE would not change much. We'll see how it will stand the test of time. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Awathorn

[Lord Weh]

 

I enjoy the game and I plan to replay it. I don't share your opinion about having 0 reasons to replay the game.

 

But... I agree the game feels average and combat is a bit meh.

 

I'll still give it 9/10, wanna know why? Because there wasn't a game this good for a long long time. My expectation have dropped to abyssmal levels and this game, as flawed as it is, is just what I wanted to play. And there is your answer. Yes BG was better, but since then expecation for this kind of games have dropped severely.

 

Sad but true .

 

PoE is a solid game. That's it.

Less BUGs then many other games ... but still to many!

Can you imagin BMW or Toyota would release a new car where several parts aren't working as they should? Or a graphic card which has several BUGs?

ALL of you would instantly bring it back to the shop where you bought it!

 

I just can't understand, why users are so forgiving when it comes to software . It's a product like every other product! And creating software is in no way more complicate then crating a graphic card or car (hell, modern cars include billions of code lines too).

 

But all I ever see is this damn STUPID: "just a game" bull****!

Not a very good comparison IMHO, BMW and Toyota have the finances to keep at something until it IS right, Obsidian clearly want to get everything perfect, but they have limited means.

 

Also, a car is a single product being honed, whilst software can react so very differently on different machines, it's almost impossible to predict everything.

 

Also, bugs in a game aren't life or death, waiting a few days for a fix if it's disrupting is a relatively minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, first world problems and all that.

[Ohioastro]

 

The writing and characters are better.

 

The combat is about as flawed and cheesy, having its own pros and cons.

 

Aesthetically it's much nicer looking, of course.

 

The setting IMO is more interesting and a welcome change from typical forgotten realms stuff.

 

 

Why is the setting more interesting? 

 

Soul stuff is quite cool and meaningful, but beside that, this world is so boring, flat and one-dimensional. Same goes for nearly all companions. Just a bunch of your average regular dudes doin' their thing. And some will say that is more realistic and whatnot, which may be true (you are more likely to run into plain farmer/soldier then into half-mad ranger who talks with hamster), but it is just not fun. Especially if those realistic characters have little impact on story and serve as a talking-fighting version of (not so interesting BTW) books you read. Not once it feels important to help your companion (Aloth), not once you develop some kind of relationship. If not for Durance and Grieving mother, to some extent, talking to them would be 100% chore. And there is 8 companions. Just 8. 

 

You, and a lot of other people, seem to be confusing "things I prefer" with "things that are objectively true".  PoE has a much richer dialog system that has much more subtle consequences than the old games.  That's a fact, not an opinion; I can talk my way around many things in this game, and things that I do early on can have surprising consequences later.

 

In terms of the writing, I think that the basic difference is between "book people" and "movie people".  This game uses writing, rather than cinematics, to tell the story.  If there is a recent analog, it's Morrowind, not Skyrim.  If you prefer not to read a lot and to have the story told with voice acting and cut scenes you'll skip the background reading and dialog, and will probably then find it boring.

 

But to claim that the story itself is boring?  There are the intricate politics in Defiance Bay (and in other locales); there is the whole matter of souls and animancy; there are actually some surprisingly deep things about religion, and some huge plot twists at the end game.   Calling the companions average dudes doing their thing?  This is the no spoiler forum but my God - if you actually click the dialog buttons and talk to the companions they have remarkably rich backgrounds and motivations.  At this point I think that the people calling the companions and world flat simply aren't doing any optional reading at all.

[SeekDWay]

 

The writing and characters are better.

 

The combat is about as flawed and cheesy, having its own pros and cons.

 

Aesthetically it's much nicer looking, of course.

 

The setting IMO is more interesting and a welcome change from typical forgotten realms stuff.

 

 

Why is the setting more interesting? 

 

Soul stuff is quite cool and meaningful, but beside that, this world is so boring, flat and one-dimensional. Same goes for nearly all companions. Just a bunch of your average regular dudes doin' their thing. And some will say that is more realistic and whatnot, which may be true (you are more likely to run into plain farmer/soldier then into half-mad ranger who talks with hamster), but it is just not fun. Especially if those realistic characters have little impact on story and serve as a talking-fighting version of (not so interesting BTW) books you read. Not once it feels important to help your companion (Aloth), not once you develop some kind of relationship. If not for Durance and Grieving mother, to some extent, talking to them would be 100% chore. And there is 8 companions. Just 8.

 

Say that again?

 

I find most companions not plain enough. I am not trolling. Eder is actually very refreshing given other games where every single companion is a drama queen, total emo, god, demi-god, the chosen one or defender of the realm.

Companions in PoE rock, they are not for everyone and I hate how most of their dialog is a huge lore dump, but they are miles better than BG2 Aerie/Viconia or DA style crap. Their only flaw is the lack of meaningful connection to the main character, but that will not fit well with the story in PoE.There are times in the game where I just wish if some of the party would banter about drinking a bear when we enter an inn rather than why the god of the thing did the thing.

 

Seriously the bigest flaw (after combat) the game has is that the plot is wrapped so tightly around the setting that it comes short when focusing on the characters in it.

 

Lets face it this is not The Game.

Edited April 3, 2015 by SeekDWay

[Katarack21]

Did you just compare Aierie and Viconia in the same breath? Those are fightin' words!

[Xionanx]

To the OP about the Original Question:   A.  Fanboys + Pride = Undeserved Hype.

 

IMO PoE is mediocre at best, there are other ISO View CPRGS that have come out recently that are equal if not better.  I personally dont think it deserves a lot of the high praise it is getting, and frankly if it had been released, as it is now, without "Obsidian" on the label and the hype buildup from kickstarter.. I think a lot of the people singing its praise would probably be criticizing it for its flaws.

 

Sadly, there is no way to do a "Blind Taste Test" in the PC gaming world.

 

Now, on to the complaints about the story and the companions.. yeah, they really dropped the ball here story wise.  Most of the people who follow you around have NO compelling reason to do so..  Why is ranger girl willing to risk her life fighting a dragon with me just because I suggested I could help her find some dude.. be like.. yeah, so.. that guy your looking for is near the ocean but first we need to go the complete opposite direction and climb and mountain and kill a dragon.. you know.. for your quest, you needs it.

 

Take Suikoden 2 for instance, had 108 recruitable characters, a good 50% of which were playable, and all of them had a somewhat compelling reason to be helping you.. even though most of their "hey I'll join you" dialogues were 1-2 lines and they never spoke again, ALL OF THEM could be reasonably explained why they are there.  = GOOD WRITING

 

PoE.. I can't even explain why the main character is doing any of this.. I needed some berries so I wouldn't die of fever.. which I NEVER ate and now I'm chasing a dude around because now I can see souls.  Yeah, I personally would be happy to have lived and come out with a cool power.. time to take advantage of it and make a fortune..  THE END. game over.

 

PoE needed a better hook, one that gave a really good reason for the PC to be there and then a dragnet to pull everyone else who joins along with you, regardless of their personal quests..   IE, something like what DA:O did.  All the origin stories FORCE you to join the grey wardens one way or the other, you are now part of something bigger then yourself, with no way to "escape to safety" by abandoning your task.. you cant NOT fight the darkspawn, because one way or the other they are gonna be in your face.

 

PoE.. at any given moment you could simply say.. meh.. who cares, and go get drunk at the bar/run your stronghold for the rest of your life.

 

Good hooks:

Star Wars - Lukes family is murdered and he's being hunted by the empire.. only choice is to fight or die.  Han.. perfect example someone with no good reason to be there, in it for the money.. but then Liea shows up and now he wants some of that..

DA:O  - Pick a backstory, forced one way or the other to "Join or Die" the greywardens,  greywardens wiped out and now everyone is looking to you as the last hope so save them.. 

 

Bad hook:

PoE - My cart broke down and I saw some dudes messing with a machine and now I see dead people...  guess I'll go into business as a psychic.  IE.. you have to bring RL morality into the equation to justify pretty much everything else that happens from that point.  Once you make it to town, you could have a pint, tell your story.. then keep on keeping on going wherever you were headed in the first place.

[Katarack21]

I'm...I'm stunned.

[SeekDWay]

Did you just compare Aierie and Viconia in the same breath? Those are fightin' words!

I find them equally flawed just different. :D BG2 is a guilty pleasure anyways.

[Awathorn]

You, and a lot of other people, seem to be confusing "things I prefer" with "things that are objectively true".  PoE has a much richer dialog system that has much more subtle consequences than the old games.  That's a fact, not an opinion; I can talk my way around many things in this game, and things that I do early on can have surprising consequences later.

 

In terms of the writing, I think that the basic difference is between "book people" and "movie people".  This game uses writing, rather than cinematics, to tell the story.  If there is a recent analog, it's Morrowind, not Skyrim.  If you prefer not to read a lot and to have the story told with voice acting and cut scenes you'll skip the background reading and dialog, and will probably then find it boring.

 

But to claim that the story itself is boring?  There are the intricate politics in Defiance Bay (and in other locales); there is the whole matter of souls and animancy; there are actually some surprisingly deep things about religion, and some huge plot twists at the end game.   Calling the companions average dudes doing their thing?  This is the no spoiler forum but my God - if you actually click the dialog buttons and talk to the companions they have remarkably rich backgrounds and motivations.  At this point I think that the people calling the companions and world flat simply aren't doing any optional reading at all.

 

 

Well, I'm definitely a "book person" and I always do the reading when I play this games (LOL, not here for the shooting and shiny visuals), so that's not it. There are different tastes, but I really struggle to see what is making the companions (well, with one or two exceptions) "deep" and "rich"? 

 

They aren't deep, they aren't interesting in "movie" kind of way and they don't have impact on the story. So it's fail, fail, fail on that account. 

 

Also, about the world. I'm a historian by profession, and I really don't see how vaguely translating nations, historical events, historical and philosophical dilemmas into simplified game world is somehow "intricate" and "surprisingly deep"...

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's terrible, but I guess I expected more after all these years. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Awathorn

[Katarack21]

I find Aerie just one of the worst companions ever. Almost as bad as Jan, but Aerie is also the single most powerful magic user available to the party. So I can't just murder her in an alley and forget about her.

[Molcho]

I think that surviving a deathstorm followed by hallucinations and constant nightmares about dead people calling for you, followed by the revelation that your condition might eventually drive you into madness, as all your previous incarnations impose themselves on your mind, is a pretty good reason to find out what the **** is going on. 

 

Oh, and the land you chose to settle in is cursed so that every newborn dies after a short time. That's there, too.

[Jayngo]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that should be respected. With that said-this is the internet and ppl act and do horrible things behind the "internet wall of protection."

 

I don't agree with your thoughts, but I will never berate you for speaking your mind.

 

So far this game feels just like the old IE games but with more updated graphics and extra small things like "Fast mode" and "Slow mode." I love the fast mode if I am backtracking.

 

As far a replayability-there are 11 classes!. I can't wait to start a second playthrough and make all 6 characters for my party. I always loved the Icewind Dale games for that reason. Who doesn't love Minsc and Boo and pre-made characters? But, I love to create my own characters and give them a lengthy biography and make it all tie in to the game.

 

I love this game so far. To each his own.

[Stun]

Now, on to the complaints about the story and the companions.. yeah, they really dropped the ball here story wise.  Most of the people who follow you around have NO compelling reason to do so..

Since PoE is supposed to be an Infinity engine successor, This doesn't matter in the slightest. Did anyone besides Imoen (and maybe Yoshimo) have any reason whatsoever to follow you in Bg2? Nope. In fact, BG2 rubbed this so-called 'flaw" in your face. Every NPC recruitment dialogue in Bg2 goes like this:

 

You: I must tell you, that I intend to hunt down a powerful wizard

NPC: Eh? That's fine. I have nothing better to do. Lead on!

 

 

Besides, I'm not quite sure how one can say that the NPCs don't have a reason to follow you in PoE. They present you with their personal quests right from the getgo. Isn't that reason enough?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Stun

[vril]

Maybe if the original poster had helped fund the Kickstarter, it would have got to more companion stretch goals.

[SeekDWay]

Good hooks:

Star Wars - Lukes family is murdered and he's being hunted by the empire.. only choice is to fight or die.  Han.. perfect example someone with no good reason to be there, in it for the money.. but then Liea shows up and now he wants some of that..

DA:O  - Pick a backstory, forced one way or the other to "Join or Die" the greywardens,  greywardens wiped out and now everyone is looking to you as the last hope so save them.. 

 

Bad hook:

PoE - My cart broke down and I saw some dudes messing with a machine and now I see dead people...  guess I'll go into business as a psychic.  IE.. you have to bring RL morality into the equation to justify pretty much everything else that happens from that point.  Once you make it to town, you could have a pint, tell your story.. then keep on keeping on going wherever you were headed in the first place.

 

Oh, while I agree that the danger of your character's condition isn't emphasized enough, it is there.

 

Actually if the story was what you are worshipping as the thing in good story telling, I would be the one writting your post just with reversed polarity.

[sim-h]

If hearing constant whisphers in your head isn't bothering some of you guys - I WORRY!

[Sleazebag]

DA:O's hook was awful. I didn't want to be part of the Grey Wardens since I hated them from the start, I didn't want to fight Sauron's army aka darkspawn. It felt extremely forced and didn't do much in the way of giving roleplay to people who don't really want to be a warden. If that's a good hook, then any video game that forces you to be part of the plot has a good hook.

[redneckdevil]

 

 

 

BG1 had far superior story, writing and art.

The story that's central premise is a super cliche story about an evil brother with similar powers as the protagonist? Gosh, what an exciting tale to experience for the 1,415,089th time! Maybe next time our hero will need to save a damsel in distress! Oh wait...

 

 

BG1: You ran from your home in the middle of the night,

More likely during the day, but that's up to the player. Way to try and make the mundane tale of leaving Candlekeep with your foster dad seem dramatic.

 

--yep left during middle of the day. Also do people forget u met the bbeg right at the beginning? It's basically the same deal, u see the person who's responsible but u find out the motivations behind it during the game on both. So far Poe seems to be a bit more interesting and how it's not just ur pc who is effected by the bbeg group.

 

 

PoE: You are random traveler in caravan.

So much more mundane than person in a town.

--also nvm u have much more interaction with beginning people than in by.

 

 

BG1: First companions are (heya it's me) Imoen, crazy Xzar and Monty. Dude tries to kill you. First time you play the game, you die (BG1 did this assassin/bounty hunter things very well) . Later, you stumble upon Khalid, Jaheira and... Minsc.

PoE: First companions Eder and Aloth. One is the most boring dude ever, other is even worse.

 

Imoen has literally nothing to say once she joins you besides the same few quotes over and over and over, and you think Eder is boring? Eder is at least twice as interesting as any BG1 companion. Aloth is worse? Why? Aloth is awesome.

--agreed aloth is awesome lol. Tbh imho the priest stands out more as far as character than any companion I had in bg1.

 

Can you even quote any of PoE companions?

 

Aloth: You're itching for the kindling touch of your sister, ye coxfither!

---pc-so tell me about ur God. Eder-they blew him up.

 

 

BG1: Clearing the Neshkell mines.

 

A 100% challenge free, but also 100% tedious mandatory chore. Great example!

--yeah the temple, those shadows and phantoms were more of an issue than the mines to me.

 

 

BG1: Boo

PoE: Piglet

 

Useless item slot waster vs cute pet you see in-game (Though I prefer the cat). What an obvious win for PoE.

--bg-boo, Poe-black obsidian drake. Nuff said lol.

 

 

BG1: Getting the Longsword +2 (!!!)

PoE: Getting your first x1.15 damage, +3% whatever, when you fall under 50% endurance you get +20 to X, Y, Z defense, weapon

 

Alright, you win that round.

--eh. Tbh and this is again purely my opinion, but as someone who likes low magic campaigns in pnp, I'm guessing that's all I need to say about my liking the Poe set up on gear.

--also the plate deal and selling lots of mundane gear for nothing, it still feels the same. Bg I sold a lot of gear that didn't hardly give me much and in Poe it's the same. While it may not be as much as the plate, u do see a huge difference between cloth and leather compared to heavy and plate in Poe. I'm liking their is a difference in price but not something that makes u insanely rich.

As someone played bg1 first time bout 3 years ago, I agree completely but wanted to add on to ur post. Also +1 to Poe for giving me a bag of holding right of the bat )

[Bayzent]

I`ve been enjoying playing PoE quite a bit. But for the life of me I can`t understand the hype over the game which seems almost hysterical to me. After having finished the game I felt pleased but at the same time slightly disappointed, perhaps because I had expected more. I do not think it is an improvement over Baldur`s Gate at all quite frankly. In some cases it`s just not as good period. When I wrote a Metacritic review to this effect, where the flood of 10s is just beyond belief, I was subjected to a comical campaign of enraged fans who not only downvoted this review - fair enough really - but made a campaign of downvoting all my other reviews also. I have never experienced anything like it on MC, not even when I trashed a WoW expansion. It is quite amazing. Anyway, just so I`ve said it, these are my three main reasons for not agreeing with the hype:

 

1: Lack of replayability. There are not enough companions for replays to have much to offer. Yes I know you can make your own party members. But I never liked to do that in the IE games. I prefer the immersion of recruiting NPCs and having party members with some sense of personality. And eight is just one playthrough and change as far as I can tell. The eight there are are good. That isn`t the problem. But the way I play these games I will never play a monk, rogue or barbarian at all because there aren`t any.

Secondly it`s not open enough compared to Baldur`s Gate. Apart from Defiance Bay there`s only really ever one place you can go at any time, unless you want to be instantly killed of course. By contrast Baldur`s Gate had like 20 areas to choose between at any time and you could deliberately spend ages doing something completely irrelevant to the main quest. And you just can not in PoE.

 

2: Obscene loading times. There are just too many loading screens and they last for ages. At least 25 seconds is my experience and it just makes exploration a pain in the butt when it should be the best part of the game.

 

3: It is not better than Baldur`s Gate. And it should be considering that Baldur`s Gate is 17 years old.

 

To me this takes the game from a 10 if these, in my opinion major, issues were not present to a 7, which was what I gave the game on metacritic when the campaign against me there started. A good game but very far from a classic. It is also not the best game in genre, which I think it should be to merit a 10. Other than that the game is fine and I said so in my review. I did enjoy my one playthrough quite a lot and do not regret buying the game. In fact I love the genre and will happily support any devs making games like this, even if the games are average, just so more might be produced in future. But it still has to be criticized fairly a and not be fawned over like some rediscovery of a species believed to be exitinct. "Look everyone it`s a dodo! Don`t raise your voices or say anything disparaging or it might die off again!"

And the honest truth for my part is that I don`t imagine I`ll be starting a new game of PoE anytime soon, because I just can`t find a compelling reason to do so. Maybe in a couple of years after a few patches and after some more companions have been added. But just how is this game a 10 when BG is better in these respects by far? What is BG then? An 11? 12? I am hard pressed to find any aspect where I think PoE is the better game. That doesn`t mean it`s bad. Just that some people seem to have lost all sense of proportion when it comes to PoE. The hype is just unbelievable. I would be curious to know just how many of the people who are now raging while downvoting my reviews on Metacritic, simply because I had the temerity to criticize obvious shortcomings with PoE, will even be playing it in a couple of weeks, once their first playthrough is done with. Frankly I doubt very much if any of them will. I know I`d rather start my 53rd playthrough of Baldur`s Gate right now.

1. Yeah I hadn't bothered with companions, neither did in BG until my 13th playthrough, so I can't comment on that. To me at least replayability is about trying different thematic bands and try to see if I can understand the game mechanics with different character builds, but I'm not going to undermine your point because our playstyles differ.

 

2. I can see if you are experiencing this how this can detract from your experience a lot. For now I have yet to experience more than 5 seconds of loading screen and it pisses me off, so I don't want to imagine having to swallow 25 seconds every screen...specially since most of said screens seem to leave you in parts where you do nothing but walk from one border of the screen to the next.

 

3.Hmmm...It is way better than BG1, mostly because the writting is better, and it's comparable thus far to BG2 to me, because I really dig this style of writting where you start in the complete dark and begin discovering the world as you play better than "Big hulk evil killed foster father, hero go kill" derpity...I dunno the timing for the "twists" bother me a lot in BG1.

 

 

DA:O's hook was awful. I didn't want to be part of the Grey Wardens since I hated them from the start, I didn't want to fight Sauron's army aka darkspawn. It felt extremely forced and didn't do much in the way of giving roleplay to people who don't really want to be a warden. If that's a good hook, then any video game that forces you to be part of the plot has a good hook.

 

So much this. I think for the most part Bioware fails to put the character's motivations in context for the player most of times, but then again that is very hard to do in first games. I really didn't feel any connection to Gorion or Imoen in the first BG, didn't care about the problems of Ferelden when I played as a mage in DA:O (And couldn't tell that mage guy "super friend" whose name I can't recall ever to go **** himself and continue the game from that) and the list goes on...

 

Yeah the games tell me they are people I should care about...but you may want to tell me why I should, give me some context about why my character should be interested in this...During the start of DA:O we only have Duncan's word that "There is an evil blight". while at the same time we know EVERYBODY in Ferelden is sending aid to the king to destroy it at it's root, we know nothing about the betrayal that happens afterwards and nothing about even what a goddamed Darkspawn is...and even if we did, why the hell would we want to leave the tower?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Bayzent

[PIP-Clownboy]

(btw Durance and GM > any BG character)

 

 

Edwin disagrees

[Ohioastro]

I'm...I'm stunned.

 

If I had as cramped, sour, and negative a view of a game as some of the people here I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on message boards trying to convince people that my aesthetic judgments are better than theirs.

 

And no, telling other people that their taste in writing stinks, and that you are the only one who sees how terrible the thing that they like is, manages the neat trick of being both insulting and unconvincing.

[Rostere]

I find Aerie just one of the worst companions ever. Almost as bad as Jan, but Aerie is also the single most powerful magic user available to the party. So I can't just murder her in an alley and forget about her.

 

Oh, come on! Jan is the funniest companion in the BG series.

 

And Aerie actually has LOTS of intra-party banter with Haer'Dalis, where he gets to elaborate in detail about his Doomguard philosophy. You'll miss crucial details about his character if you don't have Aerie in your party.

 

Good hooks:

Star Wars - Lukes family is murdered and he's being hunted by the empire.. only choice is to fight or die.  Han.. perfect example someone with no good reason to be there, in it for the money.. but then Liea shows up and now he wants some of that..

DA:O  - Pick a backstory, forced one way or the other to "Join or Die" the greywardens,  greywardens wiped out and now everyone is looking to you as the last hope so save them.. 

 

Bad hook:

PoE - My cart broke down and I saw some dudes messing with a machine and now I see dead people...  guess I'll go into business as a psychic.  IE.. you have to bring RL morality into the equation to justify pretty much everything else that happens from that point.  Once you make it to town, you could have a pint, tell your story.. then keep on keeping on going wherever you were headed in the first place.

 

 

 

 

I prefer subdued to absurd. Less is more, when it comes to personalities usually extreme characters feel fake to me.

There's also the fact that there were 25 joinable NPCs in BG1. If Obsidian had written 25 NPCs for Pillars of Eternity, I think the sheer amount would have made everyone find enough interesting companions.

 

They focused on quality over quantity. I recall them saying they didn't do a lot of companion stuff until after getting the story planned out, so they could have them interact and respond to it in more interesting ways. In my opinion it paid off. There were a few very good conversations over the course of the game that are of memorable quality and I don't think that would've been the case had they split the love between 25 rather than 8. 

 

Perhaps we'll get more companion options in the expansion and/or sequel.

 

I think it is good that they did so. I was just saying that when people say that BG had better companions they must also keep in mind that both BG1 and BG2 had far more of them.

 

BG2 had some interesting intra-party banter but I don't remember anything of that from BG1.

 

Of the 25 BG characters some came with the expansion? And some are from enhanced edition?

 

 

No.

[DocDoomII]

And Aerie actually has LOTS of intra-party banter with Haer'Dalis, where he gets to elaborate in detail about his Doomguard philosophy. You'll miss crucial details about his character if you don't have Aerie in your party.

She is extremely annoying though. With her superiority for being a winged elf, and her emo feelings for having lost her wings. Edited April 3, 2015 by DocDoomII

[WebShaman]

First of all, a big thanks to Hellraiser789 - it takes real cojonnes to apologize on a public forum.

 

I respect that.

 

No bad feelings here.

 

On to the BG vs PoE stuff.

 

I will admit that I like BG better than BG2 (not mechanically or for the challenge, but for the experience).  BG is great!  Low level environment, low level magic.  Great NPCs of all sorts of flavor.  Everyone finds what they are comfortable with.

 

So let us consider the storyline in BG (which, of course, was expanded on in BG2) : you are a Child of Bhaal.

 

You see, when you consider what happened behind the scenes (the PnP version of D&D went to a new version and used the Time of Troubles to explain the changes, one of which was the Children of Bhaal stuff), it is incredible.  Take the idea, and run with it.

 

So you are a Child of Bhaal.  Of course, you do not know this at the start.  You find out during the course of your adventures.

 

It all makes sense, ties together flawlessly.  Of course you had no choice in the matter - you were born this way.  It is not like you sat at the sidelines and whispered suggestions in the ears of Bhaal or something.  And you were born in the Sword Coast region (where the adventure takes place). You led a sheltered existence up until then - in Candlekeep.  Later you found out that the Harpers were behind much of this, but that comes much later.  A perfect symbiosis of IP Lore into the Storyline.  It reeks of greatness.

 

It is much like The One from Highlander - you don't really have a choice.  You either deal with it, or you die and give up your essence to one who can better deal with it.

 

Absolutely F?=king fantastic is that at the end of the ordeal/adventrue/journey, you have a CHOICE in how you wish to deal with it all.  Accept, deny, whatever (end of ToB).

 

Obsidian likes to railroad you (the Player) into something that you have absolutely no choice about - like the whole Soul thing in NWN2 (and again this soul stuff in PoE - it is getting naseous).  So I am a Watcher.  Yeah.  Why can't I get on the next caravan in the next direction out of this hell-hole of a place?  Reminds me alot of the start of the NWN2 OC.  What if I don't care about the King of Shadows taking over that part of Faerun?  Yeah, skip to the 3rd XP, please.

 

My character's background is a Death-Godlike who started as a slave on a ship from some island group, and got shipwrecked (lone survivor) and heard about being able to get some free land and make a new start at life.  I have no ties to the area other than trying to make a fresh start - and after the first couple of experiences, my common sense says get the f&%king hell out of Dodge City, man!  The Dwarven Woman/Spirit/Whatever experience totally convinced me (along with that Hanging Tree) that I didn't want to stick around - it is like the Haunted House that says "Geeeeeeet Ooooouuuuut!".  Well, I'm gone!  Free land or no, what does that get me if I end up a corpse hanging around on the next limb?

 

Let us be serious for a moment - why would ANYONE stick around after this?!?  You would have to be really screwball nuts to want to!  It would be tantamount to wishing to extend your Tour of Duty in a Warzone!  Except that you have not sworn any type of Oath!  I took one good, long look at Gilded Vale and that Hanging Tree (and of course the obligatory inquisitionary shake-down from the local authorities) and decided "Screw this!  I am sooooo outta here!"

 

Why would anyone in their right mind stay?!  Surely there are other "animancers" &Co. that can explain your condition SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE IT IS SAFER!  No promise of a new start is worth having to chance ending up on a limb of that tree!  Especially when one considers that with your "condition" as a Watcher, you are sure to be strung up when it becomes known to the locals!

 

I had this same argument with BG2 - especially the Spellhold stuff.  Screw Imoen (who I hate personally with a passion) - I am going back to the Sword Coast, Imoen can rot for all I care!  But nooooooo, I have to go to Spellhold to "continue" the game!  Railroading, anyone!?!  Why wasn't there an alternate path here?  I skip Spellhold, Irenicus perishes a painful, unfulfilled death due to the curse, and I go immediately into ToB.    Or he comes after me, whatever.

 

And the same goes for PoE - there is NO DRIVING REASON TO CONTINUE!

 

At least in BG, you had no choice - it was a matter of kill or be killed!  Your (spiritual, not maternal in that sense) Brother(s) (and Sisters and Others) were out for your Soul, literally.  Saravok tried to have you killed so many times, it was not funny!  And you didn't know why!  This alone made one attempt to try to at least survive, and for those who do not bow down to bullies and their like, to rise up and defeat them!

 

At least in BG, you knew almost from the gitgo that you have a mean, bad-@$$ opponent that was out for your life, your very soul!  In PoE, you really don't know who your opponent is until really much later in the game.  You just stumble around in the environment from one experience to the next like some sort of inebriated fool.  Inebriated and a fool, because only their like would continue to be abused in such an environment and not decide to go somewhere else!

 

This is basically what really has me not liking the setting and so. 

 

I really like the writing - it is top-notch, great Obsidian stuff.  Interactions are superb, no doubt about it.  The setting is well done, the IP fleshed out.  But in bumbling Obsidian fashion, the implimentation just falls flat.

 

And this time they have no excuses.

 

This time they chose which type of engine they would use (no granny here).  They created the IP.  No nooses on what could be done (or not done).  No "We have to send this to Company X QA to get approval first" sort of thing.  Massive backing and financing, and we even helped with the de-bugging!

 

To say I am frustrated with the end result, is an understatement!  They had everything placed into their hands! 

 

Do I enjoy the result? 

 

Yes.  Of course, I love these types of CRPGs, don't get me wrong here.  I enjoy the story, the characters, etc. 

 

But it could have been so much more.  I mourn for what it could have been, for some of what we glimpsed in the beta, for the direction this game could have gone.