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Webshaman-I'm not gonna say ur opinion is wrong but I do have 2 questions for ya.

Ur stated that in BG u had a reason to continue, kill or be killed. How is that different really than in Poe were u could see ur motivation in the same light as instead of kill or be killed, it's "find answer or go mad and lose urself"?

Have u tried "not" playing the main quest path? U arrive in first town and see that u can't or don't wanna stay...what's stopping you from not talking to the dwarf and continuing on til u get to the city? The only thing u are forced to do is talk to the old watcher to open the way, but so far it seems u can bypass the whole "I'm gonna stop doing what I planned and instead focus solely on finding the hooded guy and etc etc. now I haven't finished the game, but so far just like in fonv u don't have to ride the train on the railroad track, it's just easier and more info fulfilling to do so.

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AS the previous poster said, you don't have to stay in Gilded Vale.  At all.  The main quest line goes through it, and does not stay in it.  There are quests available there, but if your roleplaying urge is to get out of dodge, go for it.  I found the main plot line completely logical, just as I found it sensible as to why the companions would want to be with you.

 

If you're looking to have a bad time in a game you will.  Rather than spending tons of time comparing this game with others, just play this game.  You'll enjoy it more and you might even find things that you actually prefer.

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I find Aerie just one of the worst companions ever. Almost as bad as Jan, but Aerie is also the single most powerful magic user available to the party. So I can't just murder her in an alley and forget about her.

 

I don't absolutely HATE her.... I just find her extremely annoying. After one playthrough, it became...painful to have her around. And don't even get me started about Aerie in ToB...But yeah, it did suck that combat-wise she was so useful, but character-wise just....annoying. Still, I can't say they didnt explore her background or story at all (compared to BG1, at least). But yeah, Viconia and Aerie cannot be compared. Viconia was easily one of my favorite characters (and my favorite to romance  ;) ) although I liked Jaheira too. But Aerie? ...yeah not so much. 

 

O and anybody who says "this is cliche" or "I've done something similar a million times before...", keep in mind that lots of stories are basically the same thing just told in a different light. Generally something like this: (I'll use BG and DA:O as examples)

 

- Protagonist A is a normal, plain person minding their own business. (Life in Candlekeep / Origin Story)

- some event happens to said protagonist, causing them to have to leave their home, go on a journey, etc (Gorion wants to leave / Recruited by Duncan)

- they suffer a defeat and have to find a way to become stronger, etc (Armored Figure (Sarevok) who kills Gorion (your father) / Wardens are all killed)

- there's an over-arching villain or enemy they have to face (Sarevok / Darkspawn Horde + Archedemon)

- they find out for some reason or another they are special (Dream + Child of Bhaal / Last Grey Warden)

- problems happen, they deal with it to complete their journey and helps reinforce the cause (People Sarevok sends after you / Logan's assassins and the incoming Darkspawn horde)

- final showdown with villain. Hero wins, everyone is happy! Yay! (vs Sarevok / vs Archedemon)

 

Basically follows Joseph Campbell's monomyth or the hero's journey, which is a basic pattern that is found in many narrative from around the world and often used in literature and writing. 

 

Might not be explained the best, but if your interested here's more info:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth#The_Hero.27s_Journey

Edited by Hellraiser789
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Since PoE is supposed to be an Infinity engine successor, This doesn't matter in the slightest. Did anyone besides Imoen (and maybe Yoshimo) have any reason whatsoever to follow you in Bg2? Nope. In fact, BG2 rubbed this so-called 'flaw" in your face. Every NPC recruitment dialogue in Bg2 goes like this:

 

You: I must tell you, that I intend to hunt down a powerful wizard

NPC: Eh? That's fine. I have nothing better to do. Lead on!

Minsc and Jaheira are out for personal revenge against Irenicus, so they do. Viconia kind of needs your groups protection or else she'll be killed on sight by pretty much anybody, so she has pretty solid reasons. Aerie literally knows nobody else in the entire country except you and the people at her circus.

 

Other than that, yeah. Solid point. :-D

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I`ve been enjoying playing PoE quite a bit. But for the life of me I can`t understand the hype over the game which seems almost hysterical to me. After having finished the game I felt pleased but at the same time slightly disappointed, perhaps because I had expected more. I do not think it is an improvement over Baldur`s Gate at all quite frankly. In some cases it`s just not as good period. When I wrote a Metacritic review to this effect, where the flood of 10s is just beyond belief, I was subjected to a comical campaign of enraged fans who not only downvoted this review - fair enough really - but made a campaign of downvoting all my other reviews also. I have never experienced anything like it on MC, not even when I trashed a WoW expansion. It is quite amazing. Anyway, just so I`ve said it, these are my three main reasons for not agreeing with the hype:

 

1: Lack of replayability. There are not enough companions for replays to have much to offer. Yes I know you can make your own party members. But I never liked to do that in the IE games. I prefer the immersion of recruiting NPCs and having party members with some sense of personality. And eight is just one playthrough and change as far as I can tell. The eight there are are good. That isn`t the problem. But the way I play these games I will never play a monk, rogue or barbarian at all because there aren`t any.

Secondly it`s not open enough compared to Baldur`s Gate. Apart from Defiance Bay there`s only really ever one place you can go at any time, unless you want to be instantly killed of course. By contrast Baldur`s Gate had like 20 areas to choose between at any time and you could deliberately spend ages doing something completely irrelevant to the main quest. And you just can not in PoE.

 

2: Obscene loading times. There are just too many loading screens and they last for ages. At least 25 seconds is my experience and it just makes exploration a pain in the butt when it should be the best part of the game.

 

3: It is not better than Baldur`s Gate. And it should be considering that Baldur`s Gate is 17 years old.

 

To me this takes the game from a 10 if these, in my opinion major, issues were not present to a 7, which was what I gave the game on metacritic when the campaign against me there started. A good game but very far from a classic. It is also not the best game in genre, which I think it should be to merit a 10. Other than that the game is fine and I said so in my review. I did enjoy my one playthrough quite a lot and do not regret buying the game. In fact I love the genre and will happily support any devs making games like this, even if the games are average, just so more might be produced in future. But it still has to be criticized fairly a and not be fawned over like some rediscovery of a species believed to be exitinct. "Look everyone it`s a dodo! Don`t raise your voices or say anything disparaging or it might die off again!"

And the honest truth for my part is that I don`t imagine I`ll be starting a new game of PoE anytime soon, because I just can`t find a compelling reason to do so. Maybe in a couple of years after a few patches and after some more companions have been added. But just how is this game a 10 when BG is better in these respects by far? What is BG then? An 11? 12? I am hard pressed to find any aspect where I think PoE is the better game. That doesn`t mean it`s bad. Just that some people seem to have lost all sense of proportion when it comes to PoE. The hype is just unbelievable. I would be curious to know just how many of the people who are now raging while downvoting my reviews on Metacritic, simply because I had the temerity to criticize obvious shortcomings with PoE, will even be playing it in a couple of weeks, once their first playthrough is done with. Frankly I doubt very much if any of them will. I know I`d rather start my 53rd playthrough of Baldur`s Gate right now.

 

I know that you as an Reviewer has played many games, and probably has a system in which you rate games. 

But let me ask you one question, Did you enjoy the game, did the game brought the feeling of the 17 year old game back to your memories. Did it remind you of all the fun activities that you had when you were playing Baldur's gate back in the old days, and maybe even wanted to play those games again. 

 

In the gaming age where Graphics and open worlds and trees with leafs that blow in the virtual wind are all the rage, I believe that Pillars of Eternity did very very well. For a game that made me want to complete it and follow the story and learn the lore, its a 10 for me. 

 

Divinity Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity are starting to bring these games back to the Public eye, for years no one wanted to create games like the Baldur's Gate, but now another game is on the Horizon, Dungeon and Dragons Sword coast legends is also coming out. 

 

No game will ever be perfect, but if its a game that will possibly bring Baldur's Gate back to the world by having fans telling developers of the world that these kind of games will still earn you money. Then I applaud the Hype. 

 

Hype tells the Investors that this Genre is still alive, bring them back, tell us stories, people will still be willing to read ingame text. 

 

So Go Hype train, go loud, go the distance and give us Gamers more games to play. 

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Of course I can summarise PoE's exposition in a very bland and detached way, and BG's plot setup as extremely gripping and personal.

Or I could do it the other way around.

But why should I?


Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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I don't suite agree with companions having no reasons to join you. I mean I still have to meet 3 of them but until now :

 

Aloth :you're the only stranger like him he met in gilded vale, you helped him, he hates the city so he sticks with you.

 

Eder : a bit like Aloth, you're the occasion he was lacking to get the hell out of there.

 

I mean, these two simply become your friands. That's it. You don't have to want to save the world to meet and decide to stay a bit with à New friend.

 

Cana(the chanter) : he search something below your New home. He has to stick with you

 

Durance : don't really know yet. He seems a bit mad. His reasons to travel with me are not clear yet. Or he is Just mad, or he does have one.

 

Pallegina : well ok this one is my weak point. I mean she search an excuse to not obey her boss and help Dyfwood but why you ? I don't Know. In my playthrough it's not shocking because I had à good réputation when I met her (she could have heard of me) but that's it.

 

Still have to meet the others

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I enjoy the game and I plan to replay it. I don't share your opinion about having 0 reasons to replay the game.

 

But... I agree the game feels average and combat is a bit meh.

 

I'll still give it 9/10, wanna know why? Because there wasn't a game this good for a long long time. My expectation have dropped to abyssmal levels and this game, as flawed as it is, is just what I wanted to play. And there is your answer. Yes BG was better, but since then expecation for this kind of games have dropped severely.

Sad but true :(.

 

PoE is a solid game. That's it.

Less BUGs then many other games ... but still to many!

Can you imagin BMW or Toyota would release a new car where several parts aren't working as they should? Or a graphic card which has several BUGs?

ALL of you would instantly bring it back to the shop where you bought it!

 

I just can't understand, why users are so forgiving when it comes to software :(. It's a product like every other product! And creating software is in no way more complicate then crating a graphic card or car (hell, modern cars include billions of code lines too).

 

But all I ever see is this damn STUPID: "just a game" bull****!

 

 

Err...we really like the game and haven't run into any bugs that have ruined it for us.  It's no mystery.

Edited by Atheosis

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I anticipated a much more sophisticated, superior retail product based on the reputations and past work of the parties involved. I expected a bigger and  better Baldur's Gate with all the things that made BG great, minus some of the intellectual property of the Sword Coast, so the names would be different but you can't patent a d20 or a loot drop table.

 

Yet many of the universally accepted, understood and expected conventions in fantasy RPGs of the past 30 years are almost spitefully broken. I can't stealth just one member of my party? Where's the party AI scripts such as 'spell-caster defend' and 'ranged attack'? Baldur's Gate 1 had a more robust combat system. Can my character statistics impact skills effectiveness in a logical and expected way, i.e. mechanics and search?

 

Even better than the head-scratchingly missing game mechanics is the lack of memorable party members and no witty banter. Morte insutling Anna? Minsc encouraging Boo? I'd even accept Khalid mouring Jaheria at this point.

 

I'm currently playing Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate 2 and the wit and wisdom of both of those titles just highlights how amateurish and off the mark PoE is. Even turn based hexagon map Blackguards 1 has a more compelling and immersive story with memorable characters than the free roaming real time PoE.

 

Even the essential IE Mod for PoE can't fix the barqoue story and give dimension to the flat characters. Though it does let you change the UI to what it should be.

 

 

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1.  Replay is fine (if you like to make your own heroes), but Yea, we need more NPCS, I get the feeling some more possible party members will arrive shortly as DLC, voice acting is a bit expensive so they prob cut a few planned ones out till they can pay for good voiceovers for them.

 

2. Im not having excessive load times on my PC but i do own a 1 year old midline alienware so maybe im tuned to load faster somehow...

 

3. The only reason IMO its not better than BG's is the horrid stat tech, I really enjoy the original D&D stat system regardless of what people say it made it hella easier to make a hero and know what does what. Everything about this game is BG3 except that stat system....total ball drop imo.

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Webshaman-I'm not gonna say ur opinion is wrong but I do have 2 questions for ya.

Ur stated that in BG u had a reason to continue, kill or be killed. How is that different really than in Poe were u could see ur motivation in the same light as instead of kill or be killed, it's "find answer or go mad and lose urself"?

Have u tried "not" playing the main quest path? U arrive in first town and see that u can't or don't wanna stay...what's stopping you from not talking to the dwarf and continuing on til u get to the city? The only thing u are forced to do is talk to the old watcher to open the way, but so far it seems u can bypass the whole "I'm gonna stop doing what I planned and instead focus solely on finding the hooded guy and etc etc. now I haven't finished the game, but so far just like in fonv u don't have to ride the train on the railroad track, it's just easier and more info fulfilling to do so.

I will try to answer both questions.

 

To answer the first question, it is different because one is literally a question of life or death, no matter where you try to go (meaning you cannot escape).  This becomes apparent in ToB, when all the Children of Bhaal get eliminated, one way or another except for you, of course.  So you really cannot escape your fate. This is different than having to find an answer or go mad thing. 

 

First of all, since I have no idea that I am somehow afflicted with anything other than some sort of sickness caused by a bug bite (the very beginning) and somehow that just...goes away by the time I get to Gilded Vale.  The Watcher stuff I just find out about through curiosity - there is a glowing corpse hanging from that tree, and I saw it in my dream.  Call it morbid curiosity.  After the event that occurs, however, who in their right mind would stick around the area (and I don't just mean Gilded Vale here, but the whole area).  I don't feel attached to the area (not just Gilded Vale, but everything here) - and I am not talking about me as a Player, I mean my character!  He comes from the Islands, is a Death Godlike, was a slave on a Galley that sank.  The whole world is my oyster sort of thing.

 

So what is tying him to this place, these events, these people?  Nothing.  Even those I was a bit indebted to (the Caravan Master, the woman), well, they died.  So I finished up the business with the woman's sister to repay my debts, and as a bonus even rescued the cook and got the supplies back for the Inn.

 

There is nothing else holding me to these areas.  Unfortunately, there is no way to leave (other than not playing the game further, of course, simulating this).  And there is this curse that everyone mentions, the whole baby thing.  It is much easier and convient to just go somewhere else where there is no curse.

 

I hope I have answered both questions here.

 

Note that I don't dislike the story or the IP - it is written well, and seems to play well.  It just doesn't really speak to me much.  Sort of like Planescape (which I detest like the plague).  PST was an incredibly well-told story, intricate characters, writing, etc - but the setting...just no.

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probably because it's just something new. I'm a bit disappointed that it uses things like "encounter" abiltiies and strays from the rules of AD&D or D&D 3.5, but it's better than nothing I guess

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Another thing I find weird. In theory they made a world that isn't medieval like BGs or IWDs, but where do we see that in game?

 

Few guns, rapier and one type of armor. Rauitai uses ship cannons. There are some Italian-merchant-like republics. That's it? Really? 

 

So, we go around and fight spirits, undead wannabes, golem wannabes, vampire wannabes,  animals, barbarians, priests armed with knives and clubs.

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@Awathorn What else would you have liked to see?

 

They intentionally left out the printing press and all that entails. I can see why.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Speaking of companions having no reasons to join you, it reminds me of BG1 banter before the first village may have the party fighting in a riot. 

 

We (the two evil characters whose name I cannot remember, nor their reasons of joining)just joined you and walked for 3 minutes, then have enough of you so let's fight out...  

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In BG, you don't know either that Sarevok's going to kill you no matter what and where. You escape; after that, some random iron crisis appears to be the most pressing problem. Mostly, because not solving it prevents you from progressing in the game, like blocking off entrance to Baldur's Gate.

What's really at stake is not clear from the beginning - you clean the Nashkell mines, and then Tazok, and Davaeorn, and finally the big Bad in the city. How you fit into all of that and how it affects you, is revealed rather late in the story.

I found that very well done, and the skilfully executed gradual revelation is what stands out about BG's otherwise somewhat cliché plot.

But it's not really clear from the start that you can't simply go away to, let's say, Athkatla, and leave the Sword Coast to sort out its own issues.

 

Now, I wouldn't say that PoE is perfect in that regard. It needs an earlier indication how real the danger is of you going mad and how connected the whole Hollowborn business to your Watcher status.

But to place BG's story hook on a pedestal, including hindsight from the very end of the whole series, isn't really that fair.

  • Like 1

Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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