Your RPG system sucks!

[redneckdevil]

First off don't play the game thinking its end or another rule set. It's it own.

U don't have to stealth, been playing and a good bit of time I don't even scout. It's better if u do but the thing is there's no 1 way to do every combat. Granted I have seen that sending ur "tanks" in first and let ur range stay back and not do anything at first until the tanks are engaged then let lose while focus firing on ur problem mobs.

 

I'm sorry OP If u don't like the game, me on the other hand am blown away and loving every instance and this is from someone who doesn't have much experience in isometric games lol.

[KingsGambit]

I don't agree with most points. Sneaking around is beneficial for sure, but not required and I don't normally bother. About squishies/aggro...squishies shouldn't be getting hit and I don't mind not having an aggro/threat mechanic. That's MMO nonsense and I think games are much more organic without strict aggro management. Positioning becomes the key. I've found combat to be fun and challenging and as for the spell system...it's not perfect, but it's not bad. I'd like hotkeys and less rubbish spells vs. brilliant spells (meaning very few are used often and many see little use at all).

 

The only thing I'd agree on is the rest/camping. I think it's a silly feature and an unnecessary throwback to old-school games/D&D. Removing the rest mechanic and just having everything "per encounter" or "at will" would be a significant improvement by removing an unnecessary, hampering feature. I actually hated it in D&D too and was why I loved the Warlock in NWN2 so much....not having to rest to get my spells back (altho even in NWN2 resting was free and took 5 seconds).

 

I think the combat is just right, working at slow speed or with pause, just like BG2. It encourages positioning, teamwork and so on.If not for the rest mechanic, removing the restriction on wizards, druids, priests and other "per rest" classes, it'd be perfect.

[Valsuelm]

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped. The tanks can't hold aggro. It's just bad design all around. Yet again, this shows the major problem with paid betas when its the fanboys telling the devs what they want to hear instead of giving them the criticism they need to hear.

 

I think you are doing something wrong dude. My rogue, playing on hard: 

 

 

 

Alright, so.... having not played the game yet, how does one increase their attributes beyond what they initially are (I note you have 23 points spent on Attributes, more than is possible on character generation)?

 

Items?

Do you get to increase attributes on level up? (there's surprisingly little info on what exactly happens when one levels up)

Something else? (if it's story related please no spoilers other than simply saying 'story related')

 

I ask as it'll influence my character creation.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Jasta11]

The only thing I kinda agree with is that the combat is a smidge too fast, but I don't really see how they could solve that without either increasing HP totals, increasing defenses (which just means more RNG) or slowing down animations. 

 

Everything else just screams, sorry to say, learn to play. Yes, on Hard+ sneaking to get the initiative is normal. You're always going to be more effective if you plan ahead and use formations and sneak attacks than if you charge heedlessly into the fray or stumble into a pack of Ogres like a clumsy fool.

[Namutree]

 

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped. The tanks can't hold aggro. It's just bad design all around. Yet again, this shows the major problem with paid betas when its the fanboys telling the devs what they want to hear instead of giving them the criticism they need to hear.

 

I think you are doing something wrong dude. My rogue, playing on hard: 

 

 

 

Alright, so.... having not played the game yet, how does one increase their attributes beyond what they initially are (I note you have 23 points spent on Attributes, more than is possible on character generation)?

 

Items?

Do you get to increase attributes on level up? (there's surprisingly little info on what exactly happens when one levels up)

Something else? (if it's story related please no spoilers other than simply saying 'story related')

 

I ask as it'll influence my character creation.

 

Items.

[SKull]

Sawyer says that you can easily ruing a character in D&D by not specing it properly. Well how is this any different? I can't make a basic class worth a damn with this stupid system you guys devised, just gimmick builds.

 

How does this game not force you into play styles? You basically always have to sneak into battle. You pretty much have to crawl around sneaking everywhere, which is a PITA.

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped. The tanks can't hold aggro. It's just bad design all around. Yet again, this shows the major problem with paid betas when its the fanboys telling the devs what they want to hear instead of giving them the criticism they need to hear.

 

And trying to manage a party of 6 in real-time combat is patently absurd - even at slow speed. All it does is result in spamming the space bar pauses. DOS is infinitely better with its turn-based combat.

 

The spell system and spells themselves are terrible. Fights happen so fast that de/buffs are basically pointless because the fight is over by the time the spell is cast. It also makes most food/potions/scrolls useless in that regard as well. The spell times should be instant - seeing as you get so few spells to actually cast anyway and mana doesn't play a factor. And durations on all that stuff should be upped by a factor of 10 at least. I should be able to have those buffs going for an entire map. Otherwise, it's just camping after every encounter - and that's way too expensive at low levels.

 

There are so many things I *hate* about the system you designed. Why did you try and reinvent the wheel? Yes, D&D is far from perfect but it's a damn sight better than this rubbish. And that's the real shame of it just completely takes the fun out of the game and destroys all the hard work that was put into the beautiful artwork and excellent writing. I've loved most all of Obsidian's work - and Black Isle before that - down through the years, but this is really just awful, awful stuff.

 

I hope you guys can do a follow-up for Fallout 4 a la FNV. I'll at least look forward to that - so long as it doesn't use this crappy system.

 

1: You don`t have to do anything. If something makes sense to you you`ll probably do that alot. But that doesn`t mean it`s the only way of doing things.

2: Non tanks are squishy. It`s an RPG, not WOW. They`re supposed to be squishy. Have you forgotten archers oneshotting mages in BG?

3: There is no aggro. There is an engagement system you haven`t understood.

4: I also prefer turn based but not everyone agrees. Pausing the game works too although it`s easy to forget things, at least at first.

5: The spell system is a bit confusing for for me as well at the moment. But then it`s a new game. Learning the game is part of the fun, spells included.

6: No need to reinvent the wheel I agree. But there are copyright considerations and all sorts of stuff. And just because something is different doesn`t necessarily make it bad.

[Fluffsy]

 

Alright, so.... having not played the game yet, how does one increase their attributes beyond what they initially are (I note you have 23 points spent on Attributes, more than is possible on character generation)?

 

Items?

Do you get to increase attributes on level up? (there's surprisingly little info on what exactly happens when one levels up)

Something else? (if it's story related please no spoilers other than simply saying 'story related')

 

I ask as it'll influence my character creation.

 

Items (gear), food, potions, resting bonuses. The increase in stats through any source also works for scripted interactions and conversations, which is great.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Fluffsy

[floredon]

Remember that there is a tactical element to this style of RPG.  If you aren't playing tactically, you aren't going to have a good time. In addition, there is a manual that explains in great detail how the combat system works. Highly recommend you read it.

[Namutree]

Sawyer says that you can easily ruing a character in D&D by not specing it properly. Well how is this any different?

You can't ruin a class by not specing it properly. That's the difference.

 

 

 I can't make a basic class worth a damn with this stupid system you guys devised, just gimmick builds.

 

What's a "basic" class?

 

 

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! 

 

How so? It's very thematically fitting, and makes the monk class really stand out.

 

 

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. 

Not necessarily.

 

 

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped.

You're not using them right. Keeping wizards and monks up is easy. Especially the monks. Rogues require a bit more focus and attention, but they too only go down if you're not paying attention.

 

 

 

And trying to manage a party of 6 in real-time combat is patently absurd - even at slow speed. All it does is result in spamming the space bar pauses. DOS is infinitely better with its turn-based combat.

 

Did you even play the IE games that PoE is a re-imagining of?

 

 

 

The spell system and spells themselves are terrible.

What spell system? Different spell casting classes have different spell systems.

 

 

Otherwise, it's just camping after every encounter - and that's way too expensive at low levels.

If you need to camp after every encounter you suck and should lower the difficulty until you get better.

[ManifestedISO]

What attributes does your party have? I'm interested.

 

None, there is no party. 

[Longknife]

 

Disagree on almost every point - I guess this game isn't for you. Move on.

 

[edit] with thanks from me for kickstarting it...

 

You disagree because it's wrong, or because you love banana's?  I'd seriously like to hear some counter-crits here as the OP has pointed out some factual issues.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to counter points since he really didn't make any.

 

He said "the system is ****." Ok, how? For examples he named that you can't put stat points where ever you please and did not give an example of when a build is absolutely not viable, or when a class would suffer from deviating from it's "meta." The only two concrete complaints made are against Monks (which sadly I've yet to try so I can't comment) and saying the constant pauses are dumb. The latter is a case where I would agree this game could function just fine if it were turn-based instead, it's merely a matter of preference. Turn-based would result in less awkward pacing (pausing at random intervals) but slower gameplay overall cause you'd be sitting through easy fights re-assigning basic auto-attack every turn, waiting for them to end. It's quid pro quo with both having their downsides.

 

 

All I can offer is: OP, what have you tried and what have you not? Are you using formations to keep your tanks in front? Are you spamming your per-encounter abilities or abilities on classes like Cipher that can afford to spam? Do you focus targets down?

 

 

I'm actually new to isometric RPGs and I'm playing on normal. First two characters I would die to wolves and the like because I wasn't really doing any of that. Experimented a bit, now I'm tempted to crank the game up to hard difficulty tbh. My only lingering complaint would be more that if you're looking to truly challenge yourself, I don't know that I would consider Pillars a game of challenge, seeing as how ultimately you can pause time and micromanage as much as neccesary. It's merely a matter of how patient you are to do so. Yknow, kind of like how many Dark Souls fights boil down to your patience to wait for absolutely safe windows, or do you give in to impatience and try some risky ones aswell. That philosophy applies here. The strategy aspects however are pretty good. I've been pleasantly surprised with them, cause honestly my combat expectations for this game were low.

[kozzy]

Game is fantastic in almost ever way, love the combat personally. Maybe you need some more time with the game to learn its mechanics properly? Not sure why you are so angry at how the monk works.... hes my fav class and works brilliant.

Edited March 28, 2015 by kozzy

[Althernai]

How does this game not force you into play styles? You basically always have to sneak into battle. You pretty much have to crawl around sneaking everywhere, which is a PITA.

You don't have to, but yes, the decision to combine Search and Stealth into a single mode does mean that it is extremely useful. Note that if you press D, the characters will move at nearly normal speed.

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped. The tanks can't hold aggro. It's just bad design all around.

They're not that squishy. If you feel they're going down too much, you can always give them heavier armor. Also, you seem to be thinking about the rules in MMO terms -- don't. MMOs are very pernicious in making the player think that the enemies should focus on attacking the "tank" whereas anything more intelligent than an animal would go for the "squishy" damage dealers first and leave the tank for last.

And trying to manage a party of 6 in real-time combat is patently absurd - even at slow speed. All it does is result in spamming the space bar pauses.

A six-person party combined with Real Time with Pause combat (a-la the IE games) was one of the drawing points during the Kickstarter. I'm not sure what else to say here; they delivered exactly what was promised. You can probably minimize the pausing on Easy if you really don't like it.

The spell system and spells themselves are terrible. Fights happen so fast that de/buffs are basically pointless because the fight is over by the time the spell is cast. It also makes most food/potions/scrolls useless in that regard as well. The spell times should be instant - seeing as you get so few spells to actually cast anyway and mana doesn't play a factor. And durations on all that stuff should be upped by a factor of 10 at least. I should be able to have those buffs going for an entire map. Otherwise, it's just camping after every encounter - and that's way too expensive at low levels.

I kind of agree. My character is a Wizard so I have 2 Wizards and a Priest now. I've managed to get some use out of the spells, but honestly, they're hard to use and some of them are a whole lot more effective than others. To be fair though, the Infinity Engine had the same problem: somebody who selected Infravision, Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp would be complaining in exactly the same way. We just need to learn which spells are good (e.g. the Priest's Accuracy buff is worth it despite the short duration and the Wizard's cone-of-fire spell is devastating if you can position the caster and time the casting right).

[LeBurns]

 

 

Disagree on almost every point - I guess this game isn't for you. Move on.

 

[edit] with thanks from me for kickstarting it...

 

You disagree because it's wrong, or because you love banana's?  I'd seriously like to hear some counter-crits here as the OP has pointed out some factual issues.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to counter points since he really didn't make any.

 

SNIP

 

I just wanted to hear some real counters, not another "you just suck at this game go play something else" response.  I don't have the game myself so I like to see these points actually debated.  I find that a lot of times someone's gripe about a game is something I would really like.  Different strokes.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

Disagree on almost every point - I guess this game isn't for you. Move on.

 

[edit] with thanks from me for kickstarting it...

 

You disagree because it's wrong, or because you love banana's?  I'd seriously like to hear some counter-crits here as the OP has pointed out some factual issues.

 

 

 

It's kind of hard to counter points since he really didn't make any.

 

SNIP

 

I just wanted to hear some real counters, not another "you just suck at this game go play something else" response.  I don't have the game myself so I like to see these points actually debated.  I find that a lot of times someone's gripe about a game is something I would really like.  Different strokes.

 

 

 

Yeah I get where you're coming from and agree entirely, was merely pointing out OP unfortunately didn't make many points.

 

All I'll say is combat is a bit wonky and unorthodox and takes some getting used to, but once you're used to it, you're fine. If you're hoping for a game to challenge your skills, this isn't it, though it can potentially challenge your strategical thinking.

[PrimeJunta]

@LeBurns counter-arguments? I almost didn't bother but okay, since you asked... let's fisk this.

 

Paragraph 1: I couldn't understand what the OP is saying. Can't he makea viable character at all/true to archetype/not true to archetype? If so I disagree, I've made plenty of viable characters in the BB of both types. Would need more detail about the gripes to be able to answer.

 

Paragraph 2: Yeah sneaking is beneficial. I sneaked a lot in the IE games too, always had my thief scouting up front. I would prefer individual stealth here as well instead of having everybody sneak. Getting the drop on your enemies does help a lot, imagine that.

 

Paragraph 3: Yeah the game would be so much more fun if everybody was a tank. Not.

 

Paragraph 4: RT management of party of 6? Wait what? The spiritual successor of which games was this again? And what's stopping you with running with a party of two, four, or one? (Seriously: if you have a party with lots of active abilities on everyone then yeah it does get hectic, and some of the abilities would have worked better in a TB system.)

 

Paragraph 5: I smell an MMO player here. Spells are a limited resource. If you're spamming them in every little skirmish you'll need to rest too much. Buffs and debuffs do make a huge difference depending on the fight; that level 3 big area buff to all defenses turns many fights into a doddle. Debuffs are even more important as you'll quite often need to apply one to get a damage spell or even just normal attacks to bite. Basically, this just reflects a complete lack of understanding of how the thing works, and/or playing on Easy when fights really are over very quickly.

 

Paragraph 6: Nothing to address here, just a rant.

 

Don't like the monk? Don't play the monk. I don't care for the ranger so I'm not playing one. I've played a monk in the BB and really liked the way it plays, both the concept and the mechanics. 'Pinions, mang.

[PsychoBlonde]

I am enjoying the combat far more than I have in any RPG I've played, I think, ever.  It takes a little getting used to, but I'm finally getting to the point where my 6 characters are starting to support each other effectively.  Once you "get" how to do that your party can be a devastating powerhouse of destruction.

 

I would like to see an ability to set more than one trap at a time, though.  Make it something you have to purchase, not just a freebie.

[Longknife]

I initially hated New Vegas and wanted the simple-mindedness of FO3 when I started, endured it and learned more about the game and the story of New Vegas, then it became my favorite game ever.

 

This was my second Obsidian game and sure enough I struggled with the combat and the beginning had me in those typical fantasy convos where the characters are like "I worship the God uasiuhsdguashg and I grew up in sajhyxhgghs" and I'm like "UUUUUUUUUUUGHHHH NOT GONNA REMEMBER THIS," but again I knew to tough it out and now I'm having plenty of fun with minimal complaints.

[Hybridsalmon]

You rant because they supposedly made a 'sucky' system because you're a really ****ty player?

Right-o fella!

[Gauge]

 

 

 Always have to sneak into combat? No. I base whether I do or not on my character, e.g. my Paladin does not sneak anywhere unless someone in the party is searching for traps etc. (although I'm annoyed the Paladin has to also enter sneak mode to achieve this).

 

I agree with this as well.  I really wish you could select which person you want to scout, vs. it just making everyone scout.

[etagloc]

Sawyer says that you can easily ruing a character in D&D by not specing it properly. Well how is this any different? I can't make a basic class worth a damn with this stupid system you guys devised, just gimmick builds.

 

How does this game not force you into play styles? You basically always have to sneak into battle. You pretty much have to crawl around sneaking everywhere, which is a PITA.

 

Your non-tanks are beyond squishy. Monks have to get hit in order to use their skills/powers? That's ****ing stupid beyond belief! Almost every fight my rogue/monk/wizard get dropped. The tanks can't hold aggro. It's just bad design all around. Yet again, this shows the major problem with paid betas when its the fanboys telling the devs what they want to hear instead of giving them the criticism they need to hear.

 

And trying to manage a party of 6 in real-time combat is patently absurd - even at slow speed. All it does is result in spamming the space bar pauses. DOS is infinitely better with its turn-based combat.

 

The spell system and spells themselves are terrible. Fights happen so fast that de/buffs are basically pointless because the fight is over by the time the spell is cast. It also makes most food/potions/scrolls useless in that regard as well. The spell times should be instant - seeing as you get so few spells to actually cast anyway and mana doesn't play a factor. And durations on all that stuff should be upped by a factor of 10 at least. I should be able to have those buffs going for an entire map. Otherwise, it's just camping after every encounter - and that's way too expensive at low levels.

 

There are so many things I *hate* about the system you designed. Why did you try and reinvent the wheel? Yes, D&D is far from perfect but it's a damn sight better than this rubbish. And that's the real shame of it just completely takes the fun out of the game and destroys all the hard work that was put into the beautiful artwork and excellent writing. I've loved most all of Obsidian's work - and Black Isle before that - down through the years, but this is really just awful, awful stuff.

 

I hope you guys can do a follow-up for Fallout 4 a la FNV. I'll at least look forward to that - so long as it doesn't use this crappy system.

I dn what to say.. 

the premade NPC's are not optimal at all... and im rofl stomping everything on hard, its almost to easy.... almost.

 

But I know POTD is a big leap.

 

I kinda like this system.

Edited March 28, 2015 by etagloc

[Karkarov]

You disagree because it's wrong, or because you love banana's?  I'd seriously like to hear some counter-crits here as the OP has pointed out some factual issues.

OP either isn't far enough into the game (trust me I have been in plenty of fights that did not "end quickly") or he just isn't any good at it.  I will admit there are a few enemies here or there though that just don't give a crap about engagement and will bee line your casters regardless of how many melee you put in front of them unless you literally rope a dope them into a choke point.

[Suna]

Can I recommend this game to OP???? I think he is gonna like this game

http://store.steampowered.com/app/215530/

[gkathellar]

Naw. It's not perfect, but it doesn't suck. Admittedly, though, it would have benefited from, like, 2-3 additional months of playtesting.

 

Complaining about the pause button points to the OP not having played the IE games, which ... yeah, those had that. It's modeled on them. It's there on purpose.

 

Engagement is terrible, though, and the whole thing would be better without it. It mostly just hurts tactical movement.

Edited March 28, 2015 by gkathellar

[Katarack21]

I think, rather than a ****ty RPG system, you are just **** at this game. No shame in that; not every gameplay style in the universe is one you'll be amazing at.