PAX South 2015 live thread

[Sensuki]

Was anyone else just thinking of this the whole time when listening to the music? 

 

It was definitely a lot like a BG2 combat track, but still felt a bit lacking. Will need to listen again.

[Bli1942]

 

 

 

Especially Sawyer is notably absent, sequestered away in his $10 ivory tower of selective feedback

 

Yes, I truly wonder why he doesn't post here anymore. 

 

 

Game devs don't have time for mere peasants like us

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah, y'all are so charming it's a wonder they don't want to hang out here more.

[Starwars]

On another note, it's pretty cool that Obsidian has Russel Crowe as Marketing director.

[Quadrone]

Yeah, y'all are so charming it's a wonder they don't want to hang out here more.

 

While it's true that sometimes the tone here gets a bit abrasive, I still think the back and forth here is more productive then retreating to the sanctum of the echo chamber.

[Sonntam]

 

Yeah, y'all are so charming it's a wonder they don't want to hang out here more.

 

While it's true that sometimes the tone here gets a bit abrasive, I still think the back and forth here is more productive then retreating to the sanctum of the echo chamber.

 

Reading =/= interacting. 

 

People post here good feeback, but what devs can say to that is essentially "yes, I agree on that, we'll try to fix that" or "we don't agree with that, won't change a thing". First one is not really that interesting, even if it's nice to know that the issue will be fixed. The second one is a good source for a long drawn-out argument that will get you nowhere. 

 

Devs are listening to what is being said on the forums. But talking to fans can be done on other platforms and if they prefer doing the talking elsewhere, more power to them. I personally find Josh Sawyer's tumblr a lot more useful than just scouring the dev tracker. 

[Marcvs Caesar]

There's only one thing that bothered me, the shiny loot markers. Are they really necessary?

[TheisEjsing]

The devs have been very active with updates, on the forum and on other platforms from the beginning of the kickstarter and up to now. Just because one specific dev gets too busy to interact as frequently, it doesn't merit some of the reactions in here. Besides, they're probably busy with stuff, so their silence isn't meant as an insult to backer X and his all important questions. 

[LadyCrimson]

Osvir - just wanted to say thanks for the EZ youtube video link. As usual lately I miss things when they're "live."

[morhilane]

There's only one thing that bothered me, the shiny loot markers. Are they really necessary?

 

Yes,  sometimes you can't see the "loot-bag" from corpses because of things like tall grass or just the color of the background and the loot-bag.

[Sarex]

It's a fair complaint, but I think the reason he's not here is much less cloak & dagger than you're making it out to be.

 

The guys we hear from are mostly team leaders - Sawyer, Adler, and Brennecke. They're directly involved in the day-to-day of getting PoE out, and they're established themselves as point of contact with the backers. I suspect...

 

1) Avellone's writing work was over and done with months ago, so he doesn't have much to say about current status.

2) There's not much he can say about what he did without spoiling content.

3) This is Sawyer's baby. Avellone doesn't want to step on the project director's toes by blabbing about design philosophy.

 

Wait until it releases. I think tongues will loosen after that.

 

Then why did he talk about fan interaction at all? Disingenuous of him in either case.

 

Though there is always the possibility that he is here talking and discussing as one of us...hmmm...which one would he be...

[Marcvs Caesar]

 

There's only one thing that bothered me, the shiny loot markers. Are they really necessary?

 

Yes,  sometimes you can't see the "loot-bag" from corpses because of things like tall grass or just the color of the background and the loot-bag.

 

 

So the solution is to give the loot a, fairly immersion breaking, yellow marker? The people responsible for it didn't think very hard did they? I hope there's a way to disable it...

Edited January 25, 2015 by Marcvs Caesar

[Starwars]

 

It's a fair complaint, but I think the reason he's not here is much less cloak & dagger than you're making it out to be.

 

The guys we hear from are mostly team leaders - Sawyer, Adler, and Brennecke. They're directly involved in the day-to-day of getting PoE out, and they're established themselves as point of contact with the backers. I suspect...

 

1) Avellone's writing work was over and done with months ago, so he doesn't have much to say about current status.

2) There's not much he can say about what he did without spoiling content.

3) This is Sawyer's baby. Avellone doesn't want to step on the project director's toes by blabbing about design philosophy.

 

Wait until it releases. I think tongues will loosen after that.

 

Then why did he talk about fan interaction at all? Disingenuous of him in either case.

 

Though there is always the possibility that he is here talking and discussing as one of us...hmmm...which one would he be...

 

 

To tell the truth, I think the fanbase and devs really view this differently. The fanbase wants the devs to be here, in the thick of things, actually actively discussing. When, in truth, this would likely be a fair waste of time. Not only does it take hours out of the work day but it's also... People here are interested in wrangling answers, and pushing their agenda. The devs have their vision of things, and are out to make a game. Reading the discussions, then discussing that with their co-workers is a much more productive scenario.

And it happens, like how they reversed the skill-point changes for example.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love it when the devs are active and posting on the forums. But in terms of productivity, there are way better ways to handle things than to jump into discussions. The discussions and back and forth are already happening after all, they're there for the devs to read.

 

Oh, and of course, it also means that won't have to directly deal with the abundance of demanding posts, rude remarks and so forth. For example, the post just above mine implies that the devs didn't think very hard. That's rude and disrespectful and I know I would personally not want to talk to people who say things like that were I a developer.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Starwars

[AndreaColombo]

@Starwars - you make a fair point and I agree with you. I also think MCA was specifically referring to the kickstarter campaign, during which the devs pitched various concept to the crowd and kept feedback into account, discarding features nobody wanted and promoting other more popular ones.

 

 

However, some users are taken aback by the notion that a pay-per-partake forum like SA is a richer source of dev feedback and information than the official PoE boards. And I share that sentiment.

[mstark]

Looked great, and the music was fantastic

[Sarex]

Should have also added that the game does look great, I just hope that it's the same for gameplay.

[archangel979]

Best part of the stream was how Tim got excited when they talked about a turn based game.

 

I hope OE does a Pathfinder turn based game and puts Tim in charge. And give him better story than Temple of Elemental Evil.

Pathfinder has lots of cool stuff. Something like Kingmaker but with expanded story bit would be awesome!

 

They can call upon their cooperation with InXile, take their turn based system in PoE engine and modify it for their needs. Numenera is d20 system as well and uses similar building blocks as d&d and pathfinder and is easily modified.

Edited January 25, 2015 by archangel979

[Stun]

To tell the truth, I think the fanbase and devs really view this differently. The fanbase wants the devs to be here, in the thick of things, actually actively discussing. When, in truth, this would likely be a fair waste of time. Not only does it take hours out of the work day but it's also... People here are interested in wrangling answers, and pushing their agenda. The devs have their vision of things, and are out to make a game. Reading the discussions, then discussing that with their co-workers is a much more productive scenario.

And it happens, like how they reversed the skill-point changes for example.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love it when the devs are active and posting on the forums. But in terms of productivity, there are way better ways to handle things than to jump into discussions. The discussions and back and forth are already happening after all, they're there for the devs to read.

 

Oh, and of course, it also means that won't have to directly deal with the abundance of demanding posts, rude remarks and so forth. For example, the post just above mine implies that the devs didn't think very hard. That's rude and disrespectful and I know I would personally not want to talk to people who say things like that were I a developer.

Despite your hyperbole, and contrary to how things might seem in your eyes, the fanbase here is not the enemy. Nor does the decision to not post here have ANYTHING to do with anyone's posting style.

 

Chris Avellone is Obsidian's creative director. A discussion with him would NOT be about game mechanics anyway. It would be about... writing. And maybe even quest design. As it happens, there hasn't been a single day since the kickstarter pitch where a Romance thread (for example) hasn't been an active topic on these forums. One would think that Avellone, of all people, would have words to say on the subject, or stance to argue on such matters, or even an alternative to peddle to those who are disappointed in Obsidian's decision to not have them in PoE. But... nada. He's simply not present in this particular community.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Stun

[sorophx]

Was anyone else just thinking of this the whole time when listening to the music? 

yeah, it's a rather obvious attempt at mimicking it without getting into all kinds of trouble for plagiarizing it

[Starwars]

 

To tell the truth, I think the fanbase and devs really view this differently. The fanbase wants the devs to be here, in the thick of things, actually actively discussing. When, in truth, this would likely be a fair waste of time. Not only does it take hours out of the work day but it's also... People here are interested in wrangling answers, and pushing their agenda. The devs have their vision of things, and are out to make a game. Reading the discussions, then discussing that with their co-workers is a much more productive scenario.

And it happens, like how they reversed the skill-point changes for example.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love it when the devs are active and posting on the forums. But in terms of productivity, there are way better ways to handle things than to jump into discussions. The discussions and back and forth are already happening after all, they're there for the devs to read.

 

Oh, and of course, it also means that won't have to directly deal with the abundance of demanding posts, rude remarks and so forth. For example, the post just above mine implies that the devs didn't think very hard. That's rude and disrespectful and I know I would personally not want to talk to people who say things like that were I a developer.

Despite your hyperbole, and contrary to how things might seem in your eyes, the fanbase here is not the enemy. Nor does the decision to not post here have ANYTHING to do with anyone's posting style.

 

Chris Avellone is Obsidian's creative director. A discussion with him would NOT be about game mechanics anyway. It would be about... writing. And maybe even quest design. As it happens, there hasn't been a single day since the kickstarter pitch where a Romance thread (for example) hasn't been an active topic on these forums. One would think that Avellone, of all people, would have words to say on the subject, or stance to argue on such matters, or even an alternative to peddle to those who are disappointed in Obsidian's decision to not have them in PoE. But... nada. He's simply not present in this particular community.

 

 

Of course it's not the enemy. But why would anyone want to put themselves out in the way of the rudeness that occurs on a pretty general basis around here? They have absolutely zero obligation to do so, even for a kickstarter project. In any creative endeavour such as this, why would one want to subject oneself to actually engage in discussions with people who are downright rude and who at times speak very ill of the project you're putting your heart into? Again, this is not about constructive criticism which is all fine and good. It's pretty damn clear to me that the devs read what's being discussed and take it into account. 

 

Yes, Chris Avellone is creative director. He's one of the owners of Obsidian. I would hope, and think, he has a lot of other things in the fire rather than come on to a forum and discuss romances with the esteemed forum-folk. Unless you want to him to do it in his off-hours? If you want his view on things, maybe you could try e-mailing him or send a twitter message. I e-mailed him once and he responded very nicely though it took him a few workdays to get around to it. 

 

While Obsidian does not come here to discuss all the various things that are brought up, I think they've done a pretty good job of justifying why and why not they've put in the things they have done in the game (including romances). Whether it's here, in the kickstarter updates, on somethingawful, on the Codex, on twitter, on Josh's tumblr or wherever. Or just through answering private PMs.

 

I don't think the communication has been 100% good mind you, I think a lot regarding the backer beta especially could've been a lot better communicated regarding bugs and just what is happening. But that devs should come here and discuss all kinds of things in the forum when they have a fricking job to do that actually bring in their paycheck, no, just no. I would *much* rather have the devs working on the game and actually getting things accomplished instead of going around in circles in discussions here. Because that's what it would be, it would end up as defending their designs against the people who do not want that kind of design. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by Starwars

[Sonntam]

 

To tell the truth, I think the fanbase and devs really view this differently. The fanbase wants the devs to be here, in the thick of things, actually actively discussing. When, in truth, this would likely be a fair waste of time. Not only does it take hours out of the work day but it's also... People here are interested in wrangling answers, and pushing their agenda. The devs have their vision of things, and are out to make a game. Reading the discussions, then discussing that with their co-workers is a much more productive scenario.

And it happens, like how they reversed the skill-point changes for example.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love it when the devs are active and posting on the forums. But in terms of productivity, there are way better ways to handle things than to jump into discussions. The discussions and back and forth are already happening after all, they're there for the devs to read.

 

Oh, and of course, it also means that won't have to directly deal with the abundance of demanding posts, rude remarks and so forth. For example, the post just above mine implies that the devs didn't think very hard. That's rude and disrespectful and I know I would personally not want to talk to people who say things like that were I a developer.

Despite your hyperbole, and contrary to how things might seem in your eyes, the fanbase here is not the enemy. Nor does the decision to not post here have ANYTHING to do with anyone's posting style.

 

Chris Avellone is Obsidian's creative director. A discussion with him would NOT be about game mechanics anyway. It would be about... writing. And maybe even quest design. As it happens, there hasn't been a single day since the kickstarter pitch where a Romance thread (for example) hasn't been an active topic on these forums. One would think that Avellone, of all people, would have words to say on the subject, or stance to argue on such matters, or even an alternative to peddle to those who are disappointed in Obsidian's decision to not have them in PoE. But... nada. He's simply not present in this particular community.

 

He already spoke about romance in interviews. I'm not sure what more you want to hear from him. More of the same "sorry, folks, but I don't know how to write romance, I don't like writing romance, so that's why there is no romance" stuff?

 

Generally I find presence of writers on forums ludicrous. There are enough spoilers floating around already. And I would like to learn to know the game world better through playing the game and not reading about it here on the forums.

[PrimeJunta]

Nor does the decision to not post here have ANYTHING to do with anyone's posting style.

Hum, how do you know this, I wonder?

 

Thing is, we don't own the devs. They have jobs. That job description clearly does not include "spend X amount of hours per week on Obs's forums." If they hang out here, it's because they want to. And if they don't, but hang out elsewhere instead, it's because they want to do that.

 

One would think that Avellone, of all people, would have words to say on the subject, or stance to argue on such matters, or even an alternative to peddle to those who are disappointed in Obsidian's decision to not have them in PoE. But... nada. He's simply not present in this particular community.

The obvious explanation again is that he -- among others -- doesn't want to participate in this community.

 

Blaming only them for not wanting to hang out here is woefully one-sided, methinks. Especially as many of you who moan and gnash their teeth the loudest about their absence are also the very same ones directing the sharpest barbs and most vitriol at them.

[Sarex]

Hum, how do you know this, I wonder?

 

Thing is, we don't own the devs. They have jobs. That job description clearly does not include "spend X amount of hours per week on Obs's forums." If they hang out here, it's because they want to. And if they don't, but hang out elsewhere instead, it's because they want to do that.

 

They are shooting their own foot anyways. When/If the next KS project for Obsidian comes around and they say "we will communicate with you", we will just show then what happened with PoE.

 

The obvious explanation again is that he -- among others -- doesn't want to participate in this community.

Blaming only them for not wanting to hang out here is woefully one-sided, methinks. Especially as many of you who moan and gnash their teeth the loudest about their absence are also the very same ones directing the sharpest barbs and most vitriol at them.

 

Not true, that is just how you chose to take it as. The problem is that anything negative about the game that is pointed out, you guys scream bloody murder about how we are abusing and offending Obs. I mean for ****s sake, some of you white knights even accused Sensuki, the most constructive guy on this forum, of the same thing...

 

Even if by some chance what you say is true, then why would Chris say that communication with the fans/backers is his favorite thing, twice?

 

edit: They chose to communicate, just not on this forum. If the problem is that they do not like it here, then they should change the rules and start giving out bans. This is after all their own forum. Though I think that forum would look pretty one sided and I doubt there would be any worthwhile discussion going on, after all there is only so much you can reply to, "you rock obs", "this game is perfect", "OMG I can wait to play this".

Edited January 25, 2015 by Sarex

[Few]

I really can't wait for it to come out now. I loved the way you can go through the grate into the castle and the story bits with the sketches is so brilliant. I want it to be out now!

[Flow]

 

They are shooting their own foot anyways. When/If the next KS project for Obsidian comes around and they say "we will communicate with you", we will just show then what happened with PoE.

 

Heh... I will happily bet any amount you care to name that, if Obsidian chooses to launch another Kickstarter, that project will easily exceed its funding goal within the first week.