Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Longknife]

Yknow what's sad to me is how simplified you can make everything, yet it's blown up so dramatically.

 

 

For example GamerGhazi was saying Mattie's comments are "ironic sexism" or some crap where her goal is to give men the same exact treatment women receive from Xbox mic screamers to see how they enjoy it. That? That actually sounds fairly reasonable to me, yknow make us sympathize first hand with it.

 

 

The problem?

They're basically stereotyping an entire gender based on one **** with a mic who said terrible things. It's like this is the internet (or an online gaming community) in this case where he can enjoy being anonymous; he wouldn't say this stuff face to face or in real life. And in that same regard I wouldn't exactly call him proof society is sexist, because surely he knows better and hides that crap until he's in private with likely-sexist family or a setting where he's anonymous, so society never knows or recognizes him as a sexist individual and CAN'T complain.

 

   But yeah, point is there's no reason to treat ALL men like this just because one guy once upon a time did something similar. It's rather unreasonable, imo, and yet sadly there seems to be this attitude it's justified. Sadly that same GamerGhazi thread for example had a bit of an attitude that men are hypocrites because we can't take Mattie's treatment. No you see, that's because none of us saying "wtf" have ever acted like that before, so OF COURSE we find it outrageous.

 

  In a nutshell and at it's core, this is just overly dramatic and unfortunate stereotyping, where an entire gender is being attacked for something one person did.

[Shallow]

For example GamerGhazi was saying Mattie's comments are "ironic sexism" or some crap where her goal is to give men the same exact treatment women receive from Xbox mic screamers to see how they enjoy it. That? That actually sounds fairly reasonable to me, yknow make us sympathize first hand with it.

The only reason we care a tiny bit about those comments are that they're made by someone who goes on to have influence on judging stuff, and because she's clowning around like McIntosh which is always amusing. Making us sympathize with how women feel about people with microphones in online games spouting sexist crap also doesn't seem like it's working here, because the women and sjws who speak out against that stuff make it seem like it's the evil patriarchal oppression-machine rolling over them, whilst I personally, and from the looks of it, most other people here, just think "Oh look, someone is spouting stupid and slightly amusing stuff, that's a bit funny, that someone probably shouldn't be a judge in any contests though.", if anything this would make me less sympathetic to women playing online games, because this would make me feel they're overreacting dramatically.

[Fighter]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

 

I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?

 

Besides that some of it is just fun it puts on display the hypocrisy of people who generalize others and demand 'harassment stops' while not even acknowledging when it's done on their behalf.

[pmp10]

Serious question: why do you guys care so much about people I've never heard of?

I imagine that's because those people sadly shape gaming media and thus the future of gaming industry.

That and they are getting desperate as gamergate peaked some two weeks ago and is losing steam fast.

Right now it's looking like this movement won't be doing any long-term good and people are upset.

[Malcador]

IGF buckled, shame.

 

In amusing news, the Dorito Pope announced game awards - http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/videogame-industry-rallies-around-first-game-awards-exclusive-1201352339/

[Volourn]

"I'm sorry, I can see that they are saying very silly things, but they just seem very unimportant and not really worth any attention. Am I missing something?"

 

Entertainment.

 

They also claimed I was dead and threatened to murder me. Yet, they lie abotu that. I'm still alive and still playing games. They need to try harder if theya re gonna murder me.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://youtu.be/V9fiz35EP2I

 

Very good video.

[Tale]

I'm still alive and still playing games.

I'm going to need evidence for either of those claims.

 

I came to a very sad realization today.

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats. It was a big thing, I think we all remember it. The talk dominated much of the game discussion. There were very loud people who even sought to justify it.

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it. That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. They were offended that anyone call into questions the culture or ask them to do anything. They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

It's just so disappointing.

[Namutree]

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats.

This happened; so I agree with that.

 

 

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. 

I think almost everyone thinks that those things are bad. As for being a gamer being about that; no one with any sense ever suggested there was any association of any kind with being a gamer and sending death threats. There is no connection between being a troll who sends death threats and being a gamer; not now, not ever.

 

 

That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it.

I'm pretty sure that would be the responsibility of law enforcement; not all of our responsibility. I guess we could push for better law enforcement when it comes to cyber-crime.

 

 

That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

 

No one does; at least, not among consumers. I can't say about anything about developers or tech industry, but I've never seen a voice of hate being the loudest in the room among consumers.

 

 

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. 

 

 

Why do we all need to be better when we're already great? The only people who needed/need to be less threatening/harassing are trolls. The trolls just kept doing what they do because they're jerks. Better cyber-crime divisions would be the only thing you can do about the death threats; that or learn the number 1 rule about trolls.

 

 

 They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

Whom tried to marginalize people, and whom was asked to be better? As for conspiring: I guess you're talking about the corrupt pseudo journalists whom first denied that they were colluding to push a common narrative; then when caught resorted to calling people names.

 

They never asked us to be better; not that we needed to. They hurled insults at us; accused us of sins that we never committed; re-invented what "gamer" meant and expected us to take it seriously, then told us not to use the word anymore based on a definition of the word that never existed except in their own minds. All the while pretending that they weren't in collusion to push a BS narrative. 

[Keyrock]

 

I came to a very sad realization today.

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats. It was a big thing, I think we all remember it. The talk dominated much of the game discussion. There were very loud people who even sought to justify it.

Absolutely, the harrasment was despicable as were the death threats.  It should be noted that the threats have never actually been linked to GamerGate and that GamerGaters even identified and tracked down the man responsible for the threats against Anita, she just decided to ignore that information since it would damage her narrative.

 

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it. That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

And those people came to be many and go under the banners of GamerGate and NotYourShield.

 

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. They were offended that anyone call into questions the culture or ask them to do anything. They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

It's just so disappointing.

It absolutely is disappointing that these Social Justice Warriors would engage in so much harassment, bullying, advocating bullying, hurling of racial slurs, etc.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Keyrock

[Nonek]

Personally I refuse to be told how to "be better" by hatemongering fascists, who demonise millions and wish to emulate the Nazi's. Especially not for a crime I had no part in. I play games recreationally, there is no culture to that, I simply use it as entertainment the same as television or books, I should certainly not be marginalised and condemned for that.

 

What is disappointing is that instead of these supposedly educated adults blaming the guilty, they attempted to marginalise millions based upon an entertainment activity, thus revealing more about themselves and their vicious little nasty views of those whom they are supposed to serve and inform in an unbiased, ethical and objective manner.

[Oerwinde]

http://youtu.be/V9fiz35EP2I

 

Very good video.

He was fair, and mostly correct. I may need to watch more of his show.

 

I mean at the end of the day, it really isn't a big issue. If the journos win and they get to keep being corrupt and pushing an agenda, and the publishers bow to the journo's pressure and do a game with a gay trans person of colour main character, and it doesnt sell because 99% of the gaming public cant relate because the number of gay trans PoCs is such a tiny part of the market, we'll still end up getting male power fantasy games because they sell.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

http://youtu.be/V9fiz35EP2I

Very good video.

He was fair, and mostly correct. I may need to watch more of his show.

I mean at the end of the day, it really isn't a big issue. If the journos win and they get to keep being corrupt and pushing an agenda, and the publishers bow to the journo's pressure and do a game with a gay trans person of colour main character, and it doesnt sell because 99% of the gaming public cant relate because the number of gay trans PoCs is such a tiny part of the market, we'll still end up getting male power fantasy games because they sell.

You should, it is quite refreshing to watch a liberal opinion show that isn't slowly becoming as insane as FOX News.

[Volourn]

"I'm going to need evidence for either of those claims."

 

Sadly, check Steam and xbox live.

 

Still alive in playin'.

"I came to a very sad realization today."

 

\Harassment and detah rates are wrong so why do you keep making excuses for those who threaten to murder me and harassed me by accusing me falsely of being sexist racist rapist corpse? I've seen no apologies to me for such an evil attack.

 

Yet, a lot of false accusations against me.

\

 

That's sexpected, though, by feminists and SJWs who harass, threaten, and attack everyone who doesn't suck their white  you know whats.

 

 

Me, though? I'll continue to play to play games and not be sexist and racist. I ALWAYS WIN.

[Malcador]

 

I'm still alive and still playing games.

I'm going to need evidence for either of those claims.

 

I came to a very sad realization today.

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats. It was a big thing, I think we all remember it. The talk dominated much of the game discussion. There were very loud people who even sought to justify it.

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it. That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. They were offended that anyone call into questions the culture or ask them to do anything. They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

It's just so disappointing.

 

Yes, because the people telling others to be "better" really went about it in a way that had any realistic chances of success. Who could have known that snark, condescension and the usual Twitter echo chamber dogpiling would not actually be persuasive. Interesting that you see it that way, but oh well. It's all been rather entertaining, people wringing their hands and actually being upset that the industry is affected by this and that anything of value was lost (Brice ? Frank ? anyone?).

 

But it looks like it has ended. About the only thing that may change is that people may learn Twitter is useless for discussion. Well, and Quinn, Alexander and Wu's Patreon accounts, perhaps.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Malcador

[Namutree]

 

 

I'm still alive and still playing games.

I'm going to need evidence for either of those claims.

 

I came to a very sad realization today.

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats. It was a big thing, I think we all remember it. The talk dominated much of the game discussion. There were very loud people who even sought to justify it.

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it. That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. They were offended that anyone call into questions the culture or ask them to do anything. They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

It's just so disappointing.

 

Yes, because the people telling others to be "better" really went about it in a way that had any realistic chances of success. Who could have known that snark, condescension and the usual Twitter echo chamber dogpiling would not actually be persuasive. Interesting that you see it that way, but oh well. It's all been rather entertaining, people wringing their hands and actually being upset that the industry is affected by this and that anything of value was lost (Brice ? Frank ? anyone?).

 

But it looks like it has ended. About the only thing that may change is that people may learn Twitter is useless for discussion. Well, and Quinn, Alexander and Wu's Patreon accounts, perhaps.

 

Not to mention the part where we were told not to use the word "gamer" since they decided it meant white male misogynist for some reason. Let me tell you guys a little story:

 

I live in a part of Michigan where nearly everyone is black. When I went to high school; I was one of about ten people who were white. I got to meet some cool people there, and guess what plenty of them called themselves? Gamers. Do you want to know why? Because they really liked video games. Who'd have guessed it.

 

Gamer never, ever, referred to white people. In fact, it was a term that was/is as racially diverse as a word could be. Those journalists are f**king morons obsessed with identity politics. Some clueless fool in academia decided (with no evidence, but rather blind racial ideology) that "gamer" had some sort of connection with whiteness. I don't get it but whatever; then some buffoon pseudo journalists tell us not to use the word anymore? Forget them. 

 

They weren't trying to make anyone better. They were trying to get rid of a word because some idiot decided it refers to white people or misogynists (a claim with no more validity than the whiteness claim).

Edited November 11, 2014 by Namutree

[exodiark]

Hahahahahha OMG
I think this is the very definition of wrecked: https://archive.today/rhJpr#selection-5881.1-5881.60

I try to listen to anti-GG sometimes, but it's getting harder to wade through the excrements.

[Volourn]

Namutree wins.

 

Gamer has NOTHING to do with the colour of skin. Gaming has never been about colour. Anyone who thinks that is racist. Plain and simple.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Namutree wins.

 

Gamer has NOTHING to do with the colour of skin. Gaming has never been about colour. Anyone who thinks that is racist. Plain and simple.

The fact this even needs to be said is a bit sad.

[Orogun01]

Namutree wins.

 

Gamer has NOTHING to do with the colour of skin. Gaming has never been about colour. Anyone who thinks that is racist. Plain and simple.

Except that Koreans are really good at MOBA.

[TrashMan]

Personally I refuse to be told how to "be better" by hatemongering fascists, who demonise millions and wish to emulate the Nazi's. Especially not for a crime I had no part in. I play games recreationally, there is no culture to that, I simply use it as entertainment the same as television or books, I should certainly not be marginalised and condemned for that.

 

What is disappointing is that instead of these supposedly educated adults blaming the guilty, they attempted to marginalise millions based upon an entertainment activity, thus revealing more about themselves and their vicious little nasty views of those whom they are supposed to serve and inform in an unbiased, ethical and objective manner.

 

Well said. I'm not interested in their "better".

 

furthermore, they are trying to "sanitize" the internet. I personally do not want that.

I believe the internet culture is worth preserving as it is. Why?

Because everything is a two-edged blade. You cannot change what is bad about it without demolishing what is good about it in the process.

 

I do not want the internet to mimic the real world in terms of everything (standard, conventions, lack of anyonyimity, etc.) I have the real world for that.

I'm quite happy with accepting the bad as a trade-off for the good.

[BruceVC]

 

Personally I refuse to be told how to "be better" by hatemongering fascists, who demonise millions and wish to emulate the Nazi's. Especially not for a crime I had no part in. I play games recreationally, there is no culture to that, I simply use it as entertainment the same as television or books, I should certainly not be marginalised and condemned for that.

 

What is disappointing is that instead of these supposedly educated adults blaming the guilty, they attempted to marginalise millions based upon an entertainment activity, thus revealing more about themselves and their vicious little nasty views of those whom they are supposed to serve and inform in an unbiased, ethical and objective manner.

 

Well said. I'm not interested in their "better".

 

furthermore, they are trying to "sanitize" the internet. I personally do not want that.

I believe the internet culture is worth preserving as it is. Why?

Because everything is a two-edged blade. You cannot change what is bad about it without demolishing what is good about it in the process.

 

I do not want the internet to mimic the real world in terms of everything (standard, conventions, lack of anyonyimity, etc.) I have the real world for that.

I'm quite happy with accepting the bad as a trade-off for the good.

 

 

I hear what you saying but you can't separate the Internet from RL

 

In other words its not unreasonable to expect people to behave on the Internet the same way we expect them to behave in RL in most cases

 

So there are codes of conduct that need to be enforced on certain websites and forums and certain statements and perspectives that won't be acceptable just because they said on the Internet

[Longknife]

 

 

Personally I refuse to be told how to "be better" by hatemongering fascists, who demonise millions and wish to emulate the Nazi's. Especially not for a crime I had no part in. I play games recreationally, there is no culture to that, I simply use it as entertainment the same as television or books, I should certainly not be marginalised and condemned for that.

 

What is disappointing is that instead of these supposedly educated adults blaming the guilty, they attempted to marginalise millions based upon an entertainment activity, thus revealing more about themselves and their vicious little nasty views of those whom they are supposed to serve and inform in an unbiased, ethical and objective manner.

 

Well said. I'm not interested in their "better".

 

furthermore, they are trying to "sanitize" the internet. I personally do not want that.

I believe the internet culture is worth preserving as it is. Why?

Because everything is a two-edged blade. You cannot change what is bad about it without demolishing what is good about it in the process.

 

I do not want the internet to mimic the real world in terms of everything (standard, conventions, lack of anyonyimity, etc.) I have the real world for that.

I'm quite happy with accepting the bad as a trade-off for the good.

 

 

I hear what you saying but you can't separate the Internet from RL

 

In other words its not unreasonable to expect people to behave on the Internet the same way we expect them to behave in RL in most cases

 

So there are codes of conduct that need to be enforced on certain websites and forums and certain statements and perspectives that won't be acceptable just because they said on the Internet

 

 

 

But variety is good.

 

 

I want anarchy on my internet and I want democracy in real life. If I get sick of the anarchy, I can log off. If I want a little fun, I log on.

Furthermore, yknow a problem of today's day and age? Capitalism. It can be flawed. Very, VERY flawed. Whether it be the blatant disregard for Global Warming as an issue because it's not profitable or because oil lobbyists have enough money to silence all logical arguments, or a situation like people like myself being forced to leave the US because we cannot get healthcare under a privatized system, capitalism these days can often end up with the rich pushing the poor around and using their power to ensure they never lose that power.

 

  But there's one thing corrupt capitalism has failed to touch: the internet. Despite the ease of lobbying for anything else, corporations have failed multiple times to privatize and censor the internet.

 

The anonymity and anarchy of the internet is powerful, and mark my words, we're gonna need it. Surrendering the internet to censorship and regulation would be a grave mistake. And hell, I just might off myself if I had to watch the internet finally lose to corporations all because a ****ing lying tool cried that a man was mean to her on CoD.

[Blarghagh]

 

I'm still alive and still playing games.

I'm going to need evidence for either of those claims.

 

I came to a very sad realization today.

 

In the distant annuls of a few months ago, something truly despicable happened. And I hope we can all agree that's what happened. Several women were harrased and sent death threats. It was a big thing, I think we all remember it. The talk dominated much of the game discussion. There were very loud people who even sought to justify it.

 

A few people decided that things should not really be going down that path. That being a gamer doesn't have to be about that. That we all have a responsibility to put an end to it. That developers, the tech industry, and we the consumers should not tolerate a voice of hate being the loudest in the room and allowing them to tarnish the reputation we have as a whole.

 

And instead of trying to be better, which is what we should have all moved to do, some people double downed on that behavior. They were offended that anyone call into questions the culture or ask them to do anything. They tried to marginalize people who asked us to be better. There were accused of immorally conspiring to ask us to have better standards.

 

It's just so disappointing.

 

 

My sad realisation is that you actually believe this is what is going on.

 

Here's an interesting fact: In 2012, Gamasutra declined to run this article: http://www.designersnotebook.com/Columns/115_A_Call_to_Arms/115_a_call_to_arms.htm

 

Also, I'd like to point out that you said this started with "women" being harassed. Jenn Frank, Anita Sarkeesian and Samantha Allen's harassment far predates GamerGate (and also wasn't reported on), and Brianna Wu's harassment came later. The only woman I will concede to being harassed at the spark of this is Zoe Quinn. Was that terrible? Yes it was. DUH. But she was far outnumbered by men being harassed over the same thing. Here's what was different: Nobody reported on them.

 

I wonder, where was this outrage when Phil Fish cancelled Fez 2 over harassment earlier this year? Oh wait, game journalists were making fun of him. He needed thicker skin, he needed to stop feeding the trolls and engaging them and I'm going to quote this one: He always seemed like a bit of a douche anyway. When David Vonderhaar got death threats over changes to a CoD weapon, only Polygon reported on it with any type of condemnation. You may not know this, but there are support groups for developers who get harassed. They've existed for over a year and a half. I know someone who attends one (it's a he).

 

Anyway, a hate movement of MRAs, who never ever managed to get any kind of following, grassroots or otherwise, have started a campaign to keep women out of the gaming industry by attacking low profile developers and journalists that were so unknown that for all intents and purposes they weren't really in the gaming industry in the first place? Does that really seem likely to you? If that's what happened, it's the most ineffective campaign I've ever heard of. I find it much more likely that journalists are using harassment seen through the lens of current gender politics to deflect people away from being able to call them out on their bull. Let's not even get in to the fact that the death threats against Anita Sarkeesian after she engaged GamerGate have been confirmed to have come from a Brazilian clickbait game journalist that has ties to other games news sites.

 

Asking us to be better my behind.

[Fighter]

Let's not even get in to the fact that the death threats against Anita Sarkeesian after she engaged GamerGate have been confirmed to have come from a Brazilian clickbait game journalist that has ties to other games news sites.

 

And lets not forget no one seems to even care that he was found out. He wasn't a CoD playing white MRA dudebro and he wasn't exposed by one of these social justice snowflakes but by gamers and so no one cares about that story.

 

EDIT:

 

Here is a story about privilege, harassment, power, etc.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11216787/22-years-on-Im-republishing-my-controversial-book-on-the-failings-of-feminism.html

Edited November 11, 2014 by Fighter