Torment: Tides of Numero Uno

[Elerond]

I am giving them a chance this time based on the people involved in the game. I didn't back Wasteland 2 with much money. Gave more to this because I know the whole put Torment in the title thing going on.

 

From what I played in the beta, this game will at the very least be good.

 

Game will be good if they can keep same number of options through the game. Because there is always risk for doing same that Lionheart did, which making compelling and complex first area and then become just series of snoozefest fights.

[Hurlshort]

You guys do realize that this is possibly the most brazen cash grab on nostalgia yet? InXile, a studio that has not made a single good game in its existence appropriating the name Torment to make something else entirely.

 

Its gonna be a worse flop than Wasteland 2.

 

I am legitimately stumped that people give Brian Fargo money. 

 

There is a lot going on in this post.  First off, of course it is using nostalgia, that is going to be pretty standard for any niche product like this.  The mainstream market isn't supporting these types of games, so they crowdfund.  The best way to stand out in a crowdfunding situation is to offer something completely new or something nostalgic.  As for it being a cash grab, that implies they aren't actually delivering a product.  So no, it is an investment in a company that has already successfully delivered one project using such a business model, meaning it is a pretty safe investment.

 

Now whether you think they've delivered good games or not is pretty subjective.  They have a pretty tiny library, so what exactly are we judging?  I didn't like the Bard's Tale remake, so I didn't bother backing them, because no track record.  But I enjoyed Wasteland 2 quite a bit, playing through it twice.  I believe a fair amount of people did as well.

 

As for being a flop, there are no numbers to support that.  Maybe it wasn't a grand slam, but it seemed successful enough to keep the studio moving forward.   

[Amentep]

My pledges to W2 and TTON were fueled by liking the pitch and thinking "yeah, I'd like to see this made".  Realistically I only played two InXile games - hated one, liked the other, so its not like they had a track record with me like Obsidian.

 

Nostalgia wasn't a factor - I firmly believe you can't go home again.  Much like with PoE, my expectations for W2 were not very detailed "party based, isometric post-apocalyptic game".  Overall I ended up liking it - in as much as I've played it (still haven't played it to completion yet).  But since W2 wasn't out when pledges for TTON came up, my pledge was really based on "does this sound good" not "OMG! A sequel to Planescape: Torment (without Planescape)!" or "Man another InXile game! Boss!".

[Hurlshort]

I did not pledge either.  I got Wasteland 2 with my PoE pledge.  It was good enough that I will probably buy Torment when it comes out.  But yeah, they didn't have the track record of Obsidian or Larian, making it a more risky investment.  

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

You guys do realize that this is possibly the most brazen cash grab on nostalgia yet? InXile, a studio that has not made a single good game in its existence appropriating the name Torment to make something else entirely.

 

Its gonna be a worse flop than Wasteland 2.

 

I am legitimately stumped that people give Brian Fargo money. 

 

There is a lot going on in this post.  First off, of course it is using nostalgia, that is going to be pretty standard for any niche product like this.  The mainstream market isn't supporting these types of games, so they crowdfund.  The best way to stand out in a crowdfunding situation is to offer something completely new or something nostalgic.  As for it being a cash grab, that implies they aren't actually delivering a product.  So no, it is an investment in a company that has already successfully delivered one project using such a business model, meaning it is a pretty safe investment.

 

Now whether you think they've delivered good games or not is pretty subjective.  They have a pretty tiny library, so what exactly are we judging?  I didn't like the Bard's Tale remake, so I didn't bother backing them, because no track record.  But I enjoyed Wasteland 2 quite a bit, playing through it twice.  I believe a fair amount of people did as well.

 

As for being a flop, there are no numbers to support that.  Maybe it wasn't a grand slam, but it seemed successful enough to keep the studio moving forward.   

 

 

What we're judging is that they're a studio without any acclaimed games piggybacking on big names. "We're going to make Torment again!" they said, to which I reply "You've been making iOS shovelware for 14 years and a few mostly unsuccessful action games" - how are you qualified to do anything Torment related?

 

I played Wasteland 2 for a few hours and thought the user experience side of the game was terrible. The graphics, the interface, the gameplay all felt like a Russian dev studio project from 2005. It looked like they badly mismanaged the funds they got.

[Hurlshort]

 

I played Wasteland 2 for a few hours and thought the user experience side of the game was terrible. The graphics, the interface, the gameplay all felt like a Russian dev studio project from 2005. It looked like they badly mismanaged the funds they got.

 

 

Well, you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a fair amount of people disagreeing with you.  It was pretty well reviewed, way better than all of their iOS shovelware, that is for certain.  Have you tried it since the big patch redid the graphics?  I found it more aesthetically pleasing although some people complained about the camera angle.

 

It wasn't a triple A title, but for an indie project I think it pulled off a pretty decent game.  Again, these are just opinions.  It was a playable product that met a fair amount of expectations.       

[Sensuki]

I played Wasteland 2 for a few hours and thought the user experience side of the game was terrible. The graphics, the interface, the gameplay all felt like a Russian dev studio project from 2005. It looked like they badly mismanaged the funds they got.

Good UX doesn't coincide with year released IMO, but it was bad, I agree. The Director's Cut made it even worse.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

I played Wasteland 2 for a few hours and thought the user experience side of the game was terrible. The graphics, the interface, the gameplay all felt like a Russian dev studio project from 2005. It looked like they badly mismanaged the funds they got.

 

 

Well, you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a fair amount of people disagreeing with you.  It was pretty well reviewed, way better than all of their iOS shovelware, that is for certain.  Have you tried it since the big patch redid the graphics?  I found it more aesthetically pleasing although some people complained about the camera angle.

 

It wasn't a triple A title, but for an indie project I think it pulled off a pretty decent game.  Again, these are just opinions.  It was a playable product that met a fair amount of expectations.       

 

 

I have not tried it again since release.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Drowsy Emperor

[Infinitron]

 

Kind of ironic really, Infinitron was primarily responsible for codex going mainstream(ish) and actively courting publishers and developers yet he's the stated reason for a blacklisting.

 

That's not really true. I suppose I've become the public face of the Codex, but typically it's other staff members who communicate with developers.

 

There was a collective decision to invest more work into the site starting from around 2012. It wasn't so much a "court publishers and developers" agenda as it was a "do more stuff" agenda, where "doing more stuff" naturally also includes talking to developers. That decision coincided with the beginning of the Kickstarter-driven RPG renaissance, and so the Codex was effective in riding that wave.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Infinitron

[213374U]

Is not granting an interview considered blacklisting?

 

Well. As Zoraptor said, blacklisting can only really be evaluated after a pattern. A single instance does not make a pattern.

 

However:

 

 

I've said this at least five times in this thread already, but the first e-mail is from an outside agency, who used phrases like "the reason we've been given". They didn't know what inXile and Techland had internally decided; if we wanted to know what the current state of our relationship was, we had to ask those companies directly. And we did.

 

I asked Techland why they wanted Infinitron's personal information. No answer.

 

Brother None was going to "ping" Techland three weeks ago to clarify if our presentation was actually cancelled. We never heard back.

 

We mailed Techland over two weeks ago, asking them which agreement Infinitron's posts had broken. No answer.

 

Would you like me to send ten more e-mails to Techland just to make sure?

 

When a company levels an accusation of serious misconduct at you, has your appointments cancelled through a third party, and refuses further contact, then they have blacklisted you.

 

Bubbles is one of the two interviewers-to-be for the Gamescom event. Note, interviewer. Not editor, not "staff", not janitor's second cousin twice removed -- for those of you having trouble keeping track of who's who, whose personal info was asked for, and when.

 

On the other hand, this from Brother None:

 

Sorry man I’ve been slammed with GamesCom prep, but wow did that stuff blow out of proportion, haha. 36 pages?!

 

So Brian and the rest of us didn’t get to see his schedule until a couple days ago, but he’s fully booked. It’s all tier 1 sites so I don’t know if Codex was ever going to be on the list but regardless our interview schedule is fully slammed, nothing we can do about that. Honestly though I know from experience both as a journo and a dev that you should be very careful with anything shared in confidence, better safe than sorry on that stuff.

 

But just to clear up a couple of points of confusion, I don’t think your press demo was cancelled, I’ll ping Techland to clarify that – oh and you’re free to drop by our entertainment demo as well, of course!

 

Also, what’s this about blacklisting? You’re not blacklisted by us or Techland, that’s just nonsense.

 

 

I know what I've read from the Codex. So 50/50 chance it's bull, I guess.

 

As for pledging, I backed W2. Wasn't particularly impressed, and didn't finish it, so despite liking TToN's pitch, I'm adopting a much more conservative wait-and-see approach this time around. Especially after the console release announcement. :smug:

[HoonDing]

"What we're judging is that they're a studio without any acclaimed games piggybacking on big names."

 

To be fair, Hunted: Demon's Forge was a fun game.

 

So inXile is able to create quality content, provided they're under a publisher yoke.

[Lexx]

I remember everyone hating on Hunted: Demon's Forge.

[Amentep]

I enjoyed it.  Wasn't the greatest game ever made, but it was fun.  I liked it and it was liking it that got me to pledge to Wasteland 2.

[Gromnir]

 

 

On the other hand, this from Brother None:

 

Sorry man I’ve been slammed with GamesCom prep, but wow did that stuff blow out of proportion, haha. 36 pages?!

 

So Brian and the rest of us didn’t get to see his schedule until a couple days ago, but he’s fully booked. It’s all tier 1 sites so I don’t know if Codex was ever going to be on the list but regardless our interview schedule is fully slammed, nothing we can do about that. Honestly though I know from experience both as a journo and a dev that you should be very careful with anything shared in confidence, better safe than sorry on that stuff.

 

But just to clear up a couple of points of confusion, I don’t think your press demo was cancelled, I’ll ping Techland to clarify that – oh and you’re free to drop by our entertainment demo as well, of course!

 

Also, what’s this about blacklisting? You’re not blacklisted by us or Techland, that’s just nonsense.

 

 

*chuckle*

 

so, the conspiracy theorists work themselves into a lather over nothing... again.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 2, 2016 by Gromnir

[Sensuki]

Bit of an update to this one:

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/codex-torment-gamescom-appointment-cancelled.110327/page-83#post-4717147

 

So, I just had a long Steam chat conversation with Brother None. Since he finally agreed to reply to me, I'm going to extend him the courtesy of not posting a full transcript in public. But I will say this for closure's sake:

 

My above theory is sort of correct. But it goes deeper than that. Brother None actually believed that I revealed the console port on July 19th, and then edited it out of that post. That's why he didn't bother to examine the truth of Techland's claim. He thinks I'm such an inveterate leaker that I must have spilled it all.

 

Even now I'm not sure if he believes me that I didn't. Brother None is a loyal corporate servant now and he'll never admit that inXile ****ed up. We can only wait and see and what happens in the future.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Sensuki

[quidproquo]

Liked Wasteland personally. Spent many hours playing it. Didn't know Tides was going to be a console title, tho. Hope that doesn't bode ill for it. Pledged for Tides, but I didn't for Wasteland. Would be interesting if the title I pledged ended up disappointing me whereas the title for which I didn't pledge ended up being fun. All done now, so no point getting in a twist.

[Agiel]

Just finished a playthrough of their preview section after the latest update and it seems to be shaping up quite nicely. They have since added a fairly lengthy sidequest that I have found to be the most engrossing yet that ties together a lot of pre-existing pieces I found to be underutilised before in previous builds. Other observations:

 

-The original Crisis tutorial and "Mere" sections from the first beta build is sorely missed. I think its omission gives the sense of being thrown into the deep end and messes with the initial pacing, though from what I've read it will be re-implemented after some tuning up.

 

-Massive performance fixes. Also the file size has been immensely reduced, which is welcome given that hard drive space is at a premium on my SSD.

 

-I have not yet tried any Crises with one of the new companions, Rhin. My initial impression is that she's some kind of skill monkey for non-violent playthroughs, though I wonder if you have the tenacity and grit to endure the howling agony of hamstringing yourself in the Crises for a good while with that character it turns out she's like Neo from the Matrix and your party walks through all enemies in the rest of the game.

 

Would be interested in hosting a game club (like a book club) over this game, it seems to lend itself well to it.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Agiel

[Orogun01]

I remember everyone hating on Hunted: Demon's Forge.

I remember hating that game.

[Infinitron]

[the_dog_days]

Amateurs. You always lie in RPGs. either you get access to stuff you wouldn't have, or you get to kill NPCs who are upset with you. Its a win-win.

[Infinitron]

[Agiel]

It was hard for me to pass judgement on the combat encounters (or "crises," as they are called in this game), perhaps because the early access version only represents a small fraction of the final game, but also because it was difficult for me to measure whether or not they were a substantial improvement over those of Planescape (which had encounter design that actually made me put the game down) due to the transition from RTwP to Turn-based. From what I've played so far there was probably only one or two that measured up to the encounter design of some great turn-based RPGs like Original Sin and ToEE, since they allowed for players to exploit their surroundings, but the rest did things like pitting you against 10 of the same enemies in a relatively wide open arena or just one big boring enemy.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Agiel

[evilcat]

The graphic looks nice, that is something.

Jack looks like interesting archetype.

branching quests is branchy enought it seems, at least at pieces they show off

Cool feature of being able to kill pack leader to instantly finish the fight. In turn base there is a problem of long turns to finish that last guy.

[Keyrock]

I plan to do a pacifist run my first time through, either Jack or Nano. I do believe they said, some 2 years ago, that it would be possible to bypass all combat in the game. I hope that's still true come launch day.

[Agiel]

I will say that it seemed to have the same pitfall PS:T had where it disproportionately favoured a certain build to get the most out of the game (a high wisdom character in PS: T). In the case of Numenera the experience of playing a Nano with mind-scan and high stats in the various Lore and Mechanics skills went a lot further narratively-speaking than the "Graceful Jack with a Silver Tongue" I made my first playthroughs with.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Agiel