Fear of women body in modern videogames

[Agiel]

 

I think there's a worldwide fear of man-nips and manly butt-cheek, because I almost never see those in a game. All that stupid plate, leather, robe and GI Joe armor covers them up. Real fantasy men don't need full body armor. To combat this obvious problem in games, all male characters in all games should henceforth be clothed in nothing but "Chippendale's Leather Thong +3" 24/7, with no other option given. Ever. Oh and they should /dance on command, for my viewing pleasure, too.

What about mankinis?

 

 

Can we have male characters wearing mankinis?

 

 

Raise ya Sean Connery from Zardoz.

 

[LadyCrimson]

^^ Every time I see that movie, I always wonder how Connery was able to film the movie without constantly laughing. Not to mention the camera people who had to hold the cameras still. OTOH, at least the X straps shows the man-nips!

[Keyrock]

Oh man, Zardoz.  That movie tried to be all artsy and profound, but instead would up being hilariously cheesy and ridiculous.  On the plus side, it featured plenty of nudity.

[Chaz]

 

I could go on, but I have a feeling you'd still take me too literally or something. There's years of post history you could read through that would tell you I'm definitely not a "feminist" per se. Only that I understand where some people (male or female) are coming from when they say they're tired of feeling like clothing/appearance options are often too limited or outlandishly caricatured, and that I don't see anything wrong with asking for some change/options now and then. It's not the end of the world when it happens, y'know.

 

 

Well, if there's any gerne that will give you lots of options is RPGs, even when the studios themselves don't have a ton of resources to sink into customization and cosmetic options, there's always a modding community that often creates armors and stuff thats much better looking than the original models, and there's stuff for everyone, I've even seen mods where they make a prettier, younger version of Boone from F:NV because they said that he originally looked like a chuby serial killer

 

The funny thing is developers sometimes will mock the modders because they spend so much time creating better looking armors and outfits.

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, I've seen that mod of "younger Boone" or "more handsome Boone" - I thought it looked terrible and too generic. There was something about FNV faces that tended, in certain lighting/shading conditions, to make them look oddly chimpmunk cheeked or double-chinned. Arcade had a similar thing going on.

[Zoraptor]

..has no purpose other than to spout pathetic juvenile one liners.

 

 Not quite true, she does have another purpose.

But then again we have Kreia, who needs no such pandering or stupidity. No pathetic witticisms pass her lips, in an attempt to curry favour with the protagonist. No blatant stupidities are indulged. This woman is focused, terrifying in her strength and conviction, deeply flawed in her arrogance and speciesism, but motivated by a moral goal. A goal that sees her abandon either side of a binary tyranny to champion free will, and she should have won, she was the true hero of the Sith Lords.

 

About time we got rid of the former and aped the latter a lot more, in my humble opinion. Kreia was far more attractive to me as a woman and concept than the functionally retarded pirate stripper. Even more impressively she didn't fall back on the clumsy and blatant empowerment of mass slaughter, she manipulated and misdirected, rather than just accruing an ever larger body count. Utterly refreshing.

Kreia is certainly a far better character, but it has to be said that being 'unattractive' in a physical sense is part of her character design inherited from the- pretty overt physical descriptor as well as creature type- hag Ravel Puzzlewell and part of the frequent and deliberate PST/K2 trope reversals. As such she's deliberately set up to be a counterpoint to the more typical portrayals, similar to how Atris (/Trias) reverses the typical honest paladin jedi (/angel) stereotype.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

..has no purpose other than to spout pathetic juvenile one liners.

 

 

 Not quite true, she does have another purpose.

Well played.

[alanschu]

I agree.

 

But, OTOH, if all female gamers were as chilled and good-natured as you what would Anita and the White Knights do for kicks?

 

Edit: I reckon a good 85% of female gamers *are* as chilled and good-natured as you, mebbe even 95%, But if you give a libtard hipster even 5% of pissed off people then they've got a grievance foothold in the mountain of kulturkampf.

 

 

I can't speak on behalf of LadyCrimson, but that someone is chilled and good-natured doesn't mean that they don't still notice these things, and also feel that maintain the status quo is preferred.

 

I'd describe all of the gaming women I know (many of which are co-workers) as being rather good-natured and chilled.  It doesn't mean that they are completely satisfied with the way things are, nor does it mean that if things ended up staying where they are that they wouldn't still enjoy gaming.

 

 

 

 

And of course TV/film is a different medium - the point, which you're still missing, is that video games don't have to always be all or nothing, just because they can/it's easy. In fact one could argue that because of the format, things like video games should have even more variety than TV/film.

 

I think the TV/film analogy works to an extent, especially with respect to timing.  Gaming is still quite new, and historically the very platform it existed on was marketed as a male thing, so there's some level of "catching up" to do.

 

What I find is a lot of fear that with, say, Anita pointing out (to the point of overstating IMO) damsel in distress, it means that the only solution that is acceptable is to never have a woman being captured be the motivation for a man in a game ever again.  Or that, if we increase awareness of the over sexualization of women in games to press change, it means that we can never have sexy/attractive/whatever women ever again.  I'm totally in your boat that I don't think it needs to be all or nothing, and that increased variety (in more things than just sex as well) is good.

Granted, as I mentioned earlier, there can be additional technical challenges that complicate this, but I think recognizing that it's possible to still have attractive characters with varying body types between games (rather than within games) is still a good thing.  A character like the modern Lara Croft, in the recent Tomb Raider, I thought was very well done.

[alanschu]

Yeah, I've seen that mod of "younger Boone" or "more handsome Boone" - I thought it looked terrible and too generic. There was something about FNV faces that tended, in certain lighting/shading conditions, to make them look oddly chimpmunk cheeked or double-chinned. Arcade had a similar thing going on.

 

Yeah, I agree.  I never found Gamebryo to be a strong engine for human characters.  Though it does other things quite well.

 

 

 

 

Kreia is certainly a far better character, but it has to be said that being 'unattractive' in a physical sense is part of her character design inherited from the- pretty overt physical descriptor as well as creature type- hag Ravel Puzzlewell and part of the frequent and deliberate PST/K2 trope reversals. As such she's deliberately set up to be a counterpoint to the more typical portrayals, similar to how Atris (/Trias) reverses the typical honest paladin jedi (/angel) stereotype.

 

 

I'm curious how Kreia would have been received if she was virtually the exact same character, by a more ostensibly "attractive" character.  Heck, even keep the same voice and every other trait... just make her model an attractive one.

[Zoraptor]

I'm curious about that as well and almost mentioned it with respect to the whole Darth Traya and the unused alternative ending with Atris instead of Kreia, since Atris and Kreia are just about physical opposites but similar in terms of plot function. There certainly did seem to be quite a lot of people who objected to having that ugly evil old woman being forced on them, whether their objections would have been less if she'd looked like a fashion model or been a twi'lek or something is a moot point.

[obyknven]

As a motorcycle rider, as physically attractive as that woman may come across, she loses a near infinite number of points for clearly being stupid.

 

Perhaps I speak too emotionally, as motorcycle accidents strike a bit close to home for me, but I think my uncle put it quite eloquently.  People who ride like that are just skin donors.

 

Lol, protection can save only slovepoke,  if you like fast ride this stuff is completely useless. 

 

 

 

TRPG's  appeared as part of progressive counterculture in times of sexual revolution.  This escapism is some sort of rebellion against conformist society, and first TRPG has been fulfilled by sexy bodies. First videogames inherit sexuality from tabletop games, they also has been part of counterculture (From geeks for geeks ). But  tabletop and videogames after become part of conformist culture, mainstream, and because religious morality (all main modern religions don't like such manifestations of life, read moar in "On The Genealogy of Morality" by Friedrich Nietzsche )  sexuality is banned now. Now it's time of cultural regress, and Obsidian become part of this. 

 

 

 

No offense, but this really doesn't make any sense.

 

Girl from old school TRPG

Girl(trap?) from modern TRPG 

Girls from Future TRPG?

 

In videogames same sh**t happens. All sexy games have Japan/East European origins, from  places where strong Christian/Muslim morality not existed.

[alanschu]

My gut check (i.e. completely spitballed hypothesis) would, aside from complaints about not being romanceable, be that she doesn't fit the 'mould' of the mentor type.  But that's just my gut feeling.

[kirottu]

I have nothing against big boobs in video games as long as not every woman has big boobs. Big boobs are like a four leaf clover. Once you discover such a rare treat it brings wonderment and joyment to everyone, but if you happen to stumble upon whole field of four leaf clovers it just becomes weird and creepy.

[Malcador]

Well, at least it took until page 3 to turn this fun joke thread into a morality crusade.

3 pages is still good, proves that this forum is at least a bit loose.

[BruceVC]

 

Well, at least it took until page 3 to turn this fun joke thread into a morality crusade.

3 pages is still good, proves that this forum is at least a bit loose.

 

 

Malc never underestimate the importance of morality in our modern lives, I don't think we can get reminded enough. The question is "do people pay attention" ? 

[Keyrock]

Girls from Future TRPG?

 

 

Ooh, so that means in the future we'll get some games with a distinctly Arabic/Persian/Middle Eastern feel?  Cool, I'm sick of the pseudo medieval European setting.

[Gfted1]

I wonder how Arab men and women date. Do they get to look at the woman at some point before marriage? Being fully covered like that could lead to a horrifying surprise come wedding night.

[Gorgon]

It's a public sphere thing. They don't dress like that inside.

[Nonek]

 

I'm curious how Kreia would have been received if she was virtually the exact same character, by a more ostensibly "attractive" character.  Heck, even keep the same voice and every other trait... just make her model an attractive one.

 

 

Kreia was attractive, to me at least, strong, intelligent and motivated. The fact that she remains cloaked and hooded throughout is obviously a thematic element, she is in a sense hiding. Personally one suspects that she would regard revealing clothing and such as rather childish, a blunt and obvious form of manipulation and pandering.

[Meshugger]

I wonder how Arab men and women date. Do they get to look at the woman at some point before marriage? Being fully covered like that could lead to a horrifying surprise come wedding night.

 

They don't. Arranged marriages between clans is the key. Love is only between men but that is totally not homo when they have a wife at home.

[mkreku]

I think there's a worldwide fear of man-nips and manly butt-cheek, because I almost never see those in a game. All that stupid plate, leather, robe and GI Joe armor covers them up. Real fantasy men don't need full body armor. To combat this obvious problem in games, all male characters in all games should henceforth be clothed in nothing but "Chippendale's Leather Thong +3" 24/7, with no other option given. Ever. Oh and they should /dance on command, for my viewing pleasure, too.

 

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***disclaimer - as I've said dozens of times, I like options, from sedate/demure/more realistic to sexah and fantasy ridiculous. I don't view some games not having a certain level of sexah to = "fear" of male/female form. It's just a matter of people wanting more options, more often...and to not have only one of those options be the 99.9% dominant, only given choice all the time.

 

To find a post like this from the only poster on this forum to have been absolutely infatuated with a game character, to the point of it becoming slightly creepy for the rest of us, is a bit funny. There are obviously female fantasies in games already, the difference is that different things get our respective juices flowing. We like boobs, you like.. berets.

 

And I love how women are always going "they need to make [insert current object of political correctness here] because they did blah blah". No. No, they don't have to make anything. When 50% of developers are female, you can do whatever fantasies you want. Until then, male fantasies will be dominant, of the simple rteason that men are dominant in the industry. It always amazes me, the amount of entitlement females feel in every aspect of life.

 

It's like in Sweden, one of the most gender equal societies in the world, where women for some reason believe they automatically have the right to 50% of everything. An example: we (a bunch of bored guys) started a football club a lot of years ago, out of interest for the sport. We built a football field, we arranged for people to come to practice, we built an organization, we even managed to build an indoor hall for the winter season after many years. We never excluded women, but noone was intertested in joining us. A decade ago, women suddenly realized they can play football too. What do they do? Do they make the same journey as us, building everything from the ground up? No. They demand to have 50% of the practice time slots on the field we built. They want 50% of the economy we've accrued. They want 50% of everything we worked for for 30+ years. Because they're women. The best part? They got it because of Swedish equality laws.

[Cultist]

I wonder how Arab men and women date. Do they get to look at the woman at some point before marriage? Being fully covered like that could lead to a horrifying surprise come wedding night.

It's all in the eyes

[Hurlshort]

Waa waa, mrkreku has to share with girls 

[Gfted1]

Waa waa, mrkreku has to share with girls 

 

 

The point he is making is that they got to "share" through no effort of their own.

[Malcador]

Waa waa, mrkreku has to share with girls 

Interesting way to take his post, heh. Can't wait for alanschu to take a crack at his post though