What do you wish not to see in PE

[metiman]

All I ask is for developer to not take this kind of threads too seriously. I'm facepalming here over and over again for some of these requests. If they listened to all of you, soon they would have some 1988 text-RPG in their hands.:D Nostalgia is ok, but this has to be updated to todays standards. Now it seems you are forbidding everything that possibly could make gameplay even a little bit smoother and less painful.

 

Clumsy user interface and unforgiving gameplay were not what made Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment great to me. In many ways they could have been lot better and some are requesting those same "not so good" features to return in this game. No thanks.

 

Actually most of the peeves in this thread seem reasonable to me? What do you object to specifically?

[kenup]

- Forced Companions. Unless they are really important and essential to the plot, and I must repeat: very important to the plot, they shouldn't be forced on us. And even if they are required for something smaller, after that we should be able to get them the **** out of our total party members list.

[Haerski]

All I ask is for developer to not take this kind of threads too seriously. I'm facepalming here over and over again for some of these requests. If they listened to all of you, soon they would have some 1988 text-RPG in their hands.:D Nostalgia is ok, but this has to be updated to todays standards. Now it seems you are forbidding everything that possibly could make gameplay even a little bit smoother and less painful.

 

Clumsy user interface and unforgiving gameplay were not what made Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment great to me. In many ways they could have been lot better and some are requesting those same "not so good" features to return in this game. No thanks.

 

Actually most of the peeves in this thread seem reasonable to me? What do you object to specifically?

 

Yes, most are very reasonable, but for example things like semi-permanent companion death are just creating unnecessary reloading, or if you don't want to do that then you just walk to nearest priest and after formal fee, your companion is revived anyway. Some might say this is immersion. I would say it's just waste of time. Deaths should be made unwanted in some other way and (I know some won't like this) I think DA:O did great job by making revived characters "wounded" until you could cure them.

 

Also I think the old "spell and ability memorizing" system is outdated. It's just another version of cooldown mechanic. In old RPGs you had to sleep to memorize spells, which again is waste of time because all you need to do is go to nearest tavern or other place where you can rest and *poof*, spells are again usable. Nowdays you just have to wait certain time until you are going to be able to use the spell again. Just more streamlined version of the old system without unnecessary running around. I know in some dungeons you couldn't rest and so you had to think carefully your use of spells and abilities, but they can be made hard in so many other and IMO better ways that it's not really worth it.

[Keyrock]

All I ask is for developer to not take this kind of threads too seriously. I'm facepalming here over and over again for some of these requests. If they listened to all of you, soon they would have some 1988 text-RPG in their hands.:D Nostalgia is ok, but this has to be updated to todays standards. Now it seems you are forbidding everything that possibly could make gameplay even a little bit smoother and less painful.

 

Clumsy user interface and unforgiving gameplay were not what made Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment great to me. In many ways they could have been lot better and some are requesting those same "not so good" features to return in this game. No thanks.

 

Actually most of the peeves in this thread seem reasonable to me? What do you object to specifically?

 

Yes, most are very reasonable, but for example things like semi-permanent companion death are just creating unnecessary reloading, or if you don't want to do that then you just walk to nearest priest and after formal fee, your companion is revived anyway. Some might say this is immersion. I would say it's just waste of time. Deaths should be made unwanted in some other way and (I know some won't like this) I think DA:O did great job by making revived characters "wounded" until you could cure them.

Companion perma-death could be part of Expert Mode like it is in Hardcore Mode in Fallout: New Vegas. That way everybody wins. If you want to use it (I would) you can, if you don't want your companions to have the possibility of dying then you can not play in Expert Mode, or disable that sub-feature (if you want the other features of Expert Mode but not companion perma-death).

[metiman]

1. What is so bad about reloading? it's a penalty in itself because you are forced to redo what you just did. Usually it happens when you are in a fight and you have to reload to the start of the battle and try again.

 

2. Cooldowns have destroyed cRPGs. They are tedious and unfun. Game mechanics should never rely on real world time. Forcing you to go take a break and get a sandwich before you can continue is something I can only take so much of before I just quit the stupid game. The purpose of the game is not supposed to be to annoy me or bore me and that is what cooldowns do. They also make no sense at all. They are even less logical than resting to regain your abilities.

 

The only changes in recent cRPGs that have been for the better are in the area of graphics. In every other way they have gotten worse. In most cases much, much worse.

[Keyrock]

I think perma-death can really add to a game, it adds physical and even psychological consequences for failures. It was one of the many many things I really loved about X-COM. I'd wind up getting really attached to my troops and when one of them died it really hit me hard psychologically, not to mention the tactical loss on the battlefield. Having to deal with loss and rethink tactics because you simply don't have certain party members any more adds another layer to the game. I know this isn't for everyone which is why it should be an option that can be turned on and off.

[metiman]

If you mean perma-death in the ironman sense of not having or not using save games the problem (other than dying yourself and having to restart from the beginning) is that the game may not provide a way to replace your lost companions and if the game is balanced for a full party completing the game may become nearly impossible. Some people are much better players than I am however. If you are good enough maybe you can solo anything. I've soloed BG2 SoA a few times, but I planned for soloing right from the start. I can barely handle BG2ToB even with a full party. I don't think it would be possible for me to solo it. I'd end up just getting killed in the first major battle and then having to reload the entire game from the start.

[Keyrock]

If you mean perma-death in the ironman sense of not having or not using save games the problem (other than dying yourself and having to restart from the beginning) is that the game may not provide a way to replace your lost companions and if the game is balanced for a full party completing the game may become nearly impossible. Some people are much better players than I am however. If you are good enough maybe you can solo anything. I've soloed BG2 SoA a few times, but I planned for soloing right from the start. I can barely handle BG2ToB even with a full party. I don't think it would be possible for me to solo it. I'd end up just getting killed in the first major battle and then having to reload the entire game from the start.

I meant perma-death for companions as a separate option from Trial of Iron mode, likely part of Expert Mode, so you could reload a save if you chose to, it would be up to you whether to accept the companions death or go back and redo the scenario that got him or her killed. I personally would likely accept the death and try to deal with it unless it weakened my party so gravely that, as you wrote, it made the game pretty near impossible. Of course you would be able to activate companion perma-death, whether as part of Expert Mode or seperately, AND Trial of Iron, then you would have no choice but to accept the consequences.

[Ozida]

I said it before, and I'll say it again, "anything X company does" is too broad to actually be helpful. The rest of the list, though, is, and definitely something I agree with. Well, 1 and 3, at least, I'm not sure what you mean by Ranom Characters...?

What I meant was introducing characters that come “out of nowhere”. For example, a player faces the main enemy, the antagonist, that’s supposed to be really bad… and then suddenly, at the very end of a game, it opens up that this main enemy was just a puppet of some more evil character that player had no information on during the whole game. It may sound like a good idea to some, an interesting twist, but it is actually annoying. At least I know a great example of *X company* mentioned above that did it and failed at it greatly.

It is just inconsistent. If you ever want to introduce a new key character at the very end, at least give the players small hints to be prepared for it.

[trulez]

Firearms.

 

Really, they just don't jive with fantasy.

[Wintersong]

Firearms.

 

Really, they just don't jive with fantasy.

You are going to hate Cadegund.

[metiman]

I don't think Cadegund is going to be the only NPC that can use firearms.

[Merin]

All I ask is for developer to not take this kind of threads too seriously. I'm facepalming here over and over again for some of these requests. If they listened to all of you, soon they would have some 1988 text-RPG in their hands.:D Nostalgia is ok, but this has to be updated to todays standards. Now it seems you are forbidding everything that possibly could make gameplay even a little bit smoother and less painful.

 

Clumsy user interface and unforgiving gameplay were not what made Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment great to me. In many ways they could have been lot better and some are requesting those same "not so good" features to return in this game. No thanks.

 

Yes, most are very reasonable, but for example things like semi-permanent companion death are just creating unnecessary reloading, or if you don't want to do that then you just walk to nearest priest and after formal fee, your companion is revived anyway. Some might say this is immersion. I would say it's just waste of time. Deaths should be made unwanted in some other way and (I know some won't like this) I think DA:O did great job by making revived characters "wounded" until you could cure them.

 

Also I think the old "spell and ability memorizing" system is outdated. It's just another version of cooldown mechanic. In old RPGs you had to sleep to memorize spells, which again is waste of time because all you need to do is go to nearest tavern or other place where you can rest and *poof*, spells are again usable. Nowdays you just have to wait certain time until you are going to be able to use the spell again. Just more streamlined version of the old system without unnecessary running around. I know in some dungeons you couldn't rest and so you had to think carefully your use of spells and abilities, but they can be made hard in so many other and IMO better ways that it's not really worth it.

 

There is a difference between "clumsy" and what I would say is instead "out of style."

 

Out of date implies inferior to new... and when it comes to most of the requests, they are matters of taste and opinion - not a quantifiable "inferior or superior" in the sense of game design advancement or technology.

 

Wanting CGA graphics instead of at least XGA - that's clearly inferior, out-dated tech.

 

Wanting text instead of voice - that's not "out dated", it's a matter of choice.

 

Characters being unkillable existed in early video games, it's not a new phenomenon. So the difference between companions being invulnerable or able to suffer death is a game design choice, or a player's preference, not inferior or superior. It may be out of style, but it's not out dated.

 

I don't want spell memorization, but it's not inherently inferior or out-dated... it's a matter or opinion or taste if it is good or bad.

 

Just my two cents on this.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Merin

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I don't want to see:

 

-One solution quests, the more options to complete a quest, the better IMO.

 

-Hand holding, as I like to figure things out myself.

 

-100% honest NPC's.

 

-All challenging situations generated by harder modes, IMO even the normal difficulty setting should have challenging situations.

 

-"Wall breaking" humour and jokes, I don't want anyone to say "Hey, isn't this the world of Project Eternity?"

 

-The best equipment found during the main quest, IMO true treasures should be hard to find and get.

 

-And well, all else I was gonna mention has been mentioned already by others, so I won't bother.

[licketysplit]

Wolves. I would love to NOT see wolves.

 

I like wolvies

 

What about wolves as ambient wild life, ie; not aggressive?

[Theomen712]

Level scaling and experience caps. Silly humour, like pop-cultural references. Time wasted on customizable character appearance. Cut-scenes. Free movement in melee, i.e. lack of opportunity attacks. Unrealistic armor with huge shoulder pads. Unrealistic carrying capacities. No friendly fire on AoE's.

.

.

.

I could probably spend an hour listing all the things I don't want in PE.

 

I really hope PE ignores this thread because of this comment, No offense. You dont want people to be able to customize anything visually about their character?! Like nothing? You start the game and play a Human fighter named Jim with brown hair and a mustache, then press "continue"? That sounds terrible. Does no one else agree that that sounds horrifying? People put up thousands for a game that doesn't let you make yourself unique? Customizing your character wasn't even a stretch goal because ITS A GIVEN. 99% of the community would never have given their cash if PE's developers had said "Nope there's no customizing yourself, we choose who you are, how you look, etc". I'm sorry to seem like the common overzealous thread troll hopping on anyone whose opinion doesn't match his, but customization is necessary. Its not even debatable. Also i'm one for cut scenes. There has to be some way for the developers to immerse us in the story besides text boxes (Unless every NPC is going to have their own awesome voice actor, which i highly doubt since they don't even do that for some of the games with better funding). Maybe a cut scene that doesn't take you out of the game so badly. I can understand what you mean as some cut scenes are like ****ing movies, and by the time i'm done i don't remember what i was last doing. BG and Icewind Dale had really good sparse cut scenes or artist drawn scenes with voice overs and they felt good. Maybe once a chapter or after a major goal that took days to complete they would have one. Aside from the free movement in combat and friendly fire thing, i agree with the rest.

[Metzger]

I don't want bandits or animals to be enemies by default. Animals normally fear humans and try to avoid them, not mindlessly attack. And why should bandits attack everyone on sight, especially a group of well-armed adventurers? That's just suicidal.

[Luckmann]

I like wolvies

 

What about wolves as ambient wild life, ie; not aggressive?

Now that's just crazy talk.

[metiman]

@Theomen: What do you mean by "customization"? If you just mean what Torment and BG2 had then fine. Anything more is a waste of resources and pandering to biowarians. If you want a certain look there's always DA:O. Even I liked being able to create a female character with a genuinely beautiful face. If only bioware had spent as much effort on the combat or the dialogue I may have been able to play the game for more than an hour.

[Theomen712]

I don't want bandits or animals to be enemies by default. Animals normally fear humans and try to avoid them, not mindlessly attack. And why should bandits attack everyone on sight, especially a group of well-armed adventurers? That's just suicidal.

 

Its all about the age old battle between Good and Evil. and Bandits always lose. I think if PE wants to make things fresh, and switch it up a bit, they should make it so that by actions, reputation, alignment whatever determines if you are good or bad or a mix, should determine if some enemies decide to attack you or not. Why should bandits attack a fellow cutthroat, murderer, or thief? they should offer assistance or something. I always felt like being bad in IE games gave you the short stick, less exp, less help from people, less companions to choose from.

[TwinkieGorilla]

You start the game and play a Human fighter named Jim with brown hair and a mustache, then press "continue"? That sounds terrible.

 

I dunno, man. That actually sounds pretty awesome.

[pseudonymous]

Firearms.

 

Really, they just don't jive with fantasy.

 

Oddly enough, firearms existed in the multiverse that PS:T, IWD, and BG occupied. Does that make PS:T, IWD, and BG no longer jive with fantasy?

[evdk]

I really hope PE ignores this thread because of this comment, No offense. You dont want people to be able to customize anything visually about their character?! Like nothing? You start the game and play a Human fighter named Jim with brown hair and a mustache, then press "continue"? That sounds terrible. Does no one else agree that that sounds horrifying?

Sounds like Fallout. Worst game ever, would not bang buy. And if the mustache is a Deadshote style porn 'stache I will pledge 20 bucks more, guaranteed.

People put up thousands for a game that doesn't let you make yourself unique? Customizing your character wasn't even a stretch goal because ITS A GIVEN. 99% of the community would never have given their cash if PE's developers had said "Nope there's no customizing yourself, we choose who you are, how you look, etc". I'm sorry to seem like the common overzealous thread troll hopping on anyone whose opinion doesn't match his, but customization is necessary. Its not even debatable.

It's pretty debatable. I don't give a damn about character customization, especially not in an isometric game. I have better things to do than to play with nose shape sliders.

Also i'm one for cut scenes. There has to be some way for the developers to immerse us in the story besides text boxes (Unless every NPC is going to have their own awesome voice actor, which i highly doubt since they don't even do that for some of the games with better funding). Maybe a cut scene that doesn't take you out of the game so badly. I can understand what you mean as some cut scenes are like ****ing movies, and by the time i'm done i don't remember what i was last doing. BG and Icewind Dale had really good sparse cut scenes or artist drawn scenes with voice overs and they felt good. Maybe once a chapter or after a major goal that took days to complete they would have one. Aside from the free movement in combat and friendly fire thing, i agree with the rest.

Cutscenes are useless time sinks, give me text narration boxes. More than enough.

Edited September 29, 2012 by evdk

[Aldereth]

Have about just enough of the dark and gritty realism.

[Plini_the_Youngest]

I have several thoughts concerning what I wouldn't like to see in PE, and I don't think anyone else has mentioned these in particular...

 

- A bizarre reputation system, a la BG I & II. Instead I would like to see a system that employs a realistic analysis of: Who observed action x? Do they care about it? I.e. if I kill an innocent out in the wilderness with no observer, I DON'T want to take a reputation hit.

 

- Enemies that instantly attack you. Instead I would like (at least the reasonably intelligent) enemies, to have some sort of measure of your party's power and "decide" (using some random variable) whether to attack you, avoid you or approach you non-aggressively. Also bears and wolves that mindlessly roar and charge towards you are a no-no, in my books. Wild animals, in general, should avoid all combat unless cornered or defending young/mates.

 

- Basic attributes that increase as you level up. I don't like D&D 3rd Ed. onwards for precisely this reason: that I can somehow increase my Strength or Intelligence to arbitrarily high values as I get more experience in the world. I'd like there to be absolute racial maxima applied to your attributes that can only be broken through the use of powerful magic: e.g. Manual of Quickness of Action, temporary boosts through spells/potions etc.

 

- Instantly know the alignment/morality/personality/class of joinable NPCs once they're in your party. These NPCs have their own personalities and motivations, and in (potentially lots of) certain cases they will want to keep this hidden from you, for whatever reason: e.g. the assassin wants to hide his trade from the paladin for fear that he will be turned in to the law, or the seemingly nice illusionist has ulterior personal-gain motives for joining you, or the werewolf is ashamed of her affliction, or the priest doesn't want it known that she secretly worships a deity that is forbidden or frowned upon. However, you should still be able to assign strategies, items and tactics to the NPCs who've joined you based on what you already know about them, and in some cases a character WILL want to share information about themselves with you (usually when they've assessed you to enough of a degree that they trust you with this info).

 

 

Something I really would like to be seen in this game is a structure that echoes in parts Steven Erikson's truly epic "Malazan Book of the Fallen". I like the idea of an unknown-but-hinted-at master-villain pulling the strings behind major antagonists in the plot, and I like the idea that many of these antagonists are not aware or are only semi-aware of this.The plot should not just fall into place. I'd like it to take me some careful puzzling and thinking to understand fully, and even then I want there to be more and more layers hidden underneath that again only come to light in broken pieces. A trail of signed letters from the evil boss to his second-in-command to his captain to his lieutenant just doesn't cut it, for me.

 

Things that others have put forward but that I want to reinforce are unwanted by me:

 

level scaling, ridiculously powerful weapons/armour, firearms, unrealistic/impractical weapons/armour/clothing, underpowered/useless skills, map markers (unless you've placed them there yourself, or it's a major town/city/fortress with well-known areas/buildings), no greater monetary/experience reward for taking the "good" option...

 

I'm sure there are more than that but a) I can't think of them right now and b) they've probably been mentioned already.

 

 

Finally, and most importantly, I don't want the developers to release this game before they think they have made it as perfect as they think it can be. They are pouring their heart and soul into this, and PE could quite possibly their greatest release ever. I want them to realise their, and our dream, as fully as is possible, and if that means keeping it as a dream for longer because they don't cut corners or compromise details, then so be it.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Plini_the_Youngest