Wasteland 2 Kickstarter

[Majek]

Or go to InXile forums and read the large masses of text there.

[Meshugger]

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

 

It's something so obscure that you either don't understand it or have never heard of about. 

 

*flips on a fedora*

[Keyrock]

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

Playing Wasteland 2 is like biting into a piece of peanut brittle while someone scratches you behind the ear and 70s classic rock plays in the background.  Happy?

[PIP-Clownboy]

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

 

RPGcodex has plenty of great things to say about it!

[Tigranes]

Here, my impressions that I posted on the Codex a few days ago. I don't know if I'd have put down $75 for it if I knew at the time P:E and the rest were coming, but I think the game itself, pre-ordering is a no-brainer for anyone who likes classic RPGs. Some basic things first:

 

• -I expected a good game but not a great one - decent writing but no Obsidian, decent setting but no FO1/2, decent combat but nothing mindblowing. It pretty much conforms to my expectations, and I think I'll very much enjoy it without it dethroning any classics.
• -Writing/Quests are decent multiple choices fare - nothing particularly nonsensical or cringey, but nothing particularly thought-provoking or difficult to choose, either. 
• -Character development and skills are nice and there are some 'fun skills' that if implemented correctly could give some spice. The lack of perks compared to Fallout do make it a bit less customised.
• -Combat is not particularly difficult or complex, and the major problem is the lack of aimed shots or other special moves, but it stays decent and if they add some things in it could be very nice.
• -Graphics are OK - the indoor areas I think are very nicely done, the outdoors can look pretty meh with all the brown.
• -UI sucks, but you mostly get used to it.

 

 

 

Having now 'finished' the Beta, here are some final impressions and suggestions, focusing on stuff that hasn't been talked about to death. Generally, I really like it - it was not so impressive in the first couple of hours but once I got into it I think it is a very good game, though not a classic. My only major gripe is simplistic combat (see below).

 

Skill Use Opportunities

There are obvious problems with how infrequently some skills are used, but I imagine that is being addressed. There are numerous opportunities in the beta content:

•  
• The Highpool crane could be out of commission, requiring a specific part to fix it. One could find the part by breaking down the mortar (field stripping), repairing the computer (computer tech), or if all fails, find one amongst the car wreckage without skill use (in which case the spare part could be sold for a substantial sum). That's the least work-intensive solution requiring no new dialogue or level design, just an example.
•  
• The Juvies surrounding Vulture's Cry could also be driven away with one of the three dialogue skills, and/or something more wacky - i.e. Animal Whisperer on the dog to get it to go berserk and chase the juvies, use of Southwest Lore to make up some crazy story about the woman and magical curses to scare them away, after which VC herself would wryly note your methods.
•  
• Highpool irrigation machines - there are currently 4, with only 1 requiring any work (computer tech). It's also an incredibly boring area: you just start left or right and go in a circle (linear), fight some trash mobs, click on some machines, call it a day. One could add a few more corridors to the level, add some much more difficult, mutated monsters, who happen to hold the shiny objects that are needed to repair the machines. Either you repair without (computer tech), beat down the monsters and take the parts, break down some non-critical machinery (field stripping? brute force?) to fix the machines but receive a lower reward, strategically break a couple of tubes (perception? brute force?) to flood and drown the monsters... there are many different options, some of which could be implemented relatively simply.
•  
• The Wrecking Crew camp is currently a straight up firefight, AFAIK. It could be made harder, and then spiced up with some skill-based options for sabotage. Simple solutions might include the option to approach them from behind by navigating some hazardous cliffs (outdoorsman - e.g. succeed on 4+, succeed but take some random damage from slips on 2-4, cannot try on 2-); the option to rig and blow something up in the environment to do some damage (demolitions)...
•  
• The RNC drowning kid: high perception could add a line to the skull tower description, i.e. 'this tower seems particularly unstable; if it toppled, it could go anywhere.' As for the Topekan witness: I know they are Rangers, but in WL2 I feel like such a goodie two-shoes. Where's the option to use high level Hard Ass to scare him off talking, or even a high level pistol skill check to shoot him point-blank? The arsehole Ranger who says, 'the cost of this idiot sabotaging our peacemaking mission is higher than his one life'?
•  
• The RNC coffee can bomb could, again, be detected 'earlier' with high perception, giving more time to defuse, though it would still require demolitions.
•  
• The RNC in general - where are the high intelligence checks to demonstrate knowledge of trains and pre-war machinery? Couldn't a high INT character have some things to say when negotiating with Kebbabah and Casey - e.g. "sounds like for X and Y reasons they could not have sabotaged your train that way", or something?
•  
• The Area You Did Not Save - so I don't know if this already happens in some way, but I feel like skills should determine how much or little information you get about what happened. E.g. a low level field medic / surgeon check to see the Ag Centre sabotager has gunshot wounds rather than plant wounds; a science check to see what exactly is wrong with the radio tower; all in all an opportunity to just learn a bit more about what must have happened. In my own experience, it was effective in comign to see what my inaction had wrought, but only because I had seen a large chunk of Ag Centre in a different playthrough.
•  

 

Lastly, I think the skill use takes too long. My experience with Wasteland 2 is that you walk around for 20 seconds, find a mound, take 5 seconds or whatever to dig it up, pick up 5 scraps, and then keep going. I don't see why it has to take this long. The only time-dependent mechanic related to skill use is unconscious/death countdown, but that could be adjusted to match this, too. It's tension-inducing if your guy dies in 30 seconds, not if he's bleeding to death for 240 seconds and you're using Surgeon 20 times and failing. The skill use takes so long, the icons don't even begin filling up immediately, which contributes to a felt sense of tedium. Finally, skill use should be instant in combat. It doesn't make sense that in turn-based combat you suddenly use surgeon and it takes 8 seconds of real-time waiting. It is boredom with no upside.

 

Combat

Combat is the bread and butter of WL2 and I think for any significant system changes between now and release, combat should be the focus. Even if you can't change everything you want to / we suggest for other things, I think combat is the priority. As has been mentioned in the Codex, it's too simple at the moment.

 

I think it is ridiculous there are no aimed / special shots of any kind, and this is the one thing about the game I want to make a huge fuss out of. The experience of combat right now is just move, shoot, cover. I do like how the AI is smart enough not to come out of cover just because you are too far away for them to hit, and it makes even the last 1 or 2 enemies more than a chore to finish off. But when you ARE shooting at each other it's far, far too simplistic. There are other ways to complexify combat, of course. More demolitions. Greater weapon variety encouraging you to mix and match. But even if in the full game we had more weapons to play with and plenty of grenades, I think it's imperative that there are some basic shot options implemented: arm for aim accuracy, leg for movement (especially for superfast enemies like bunnies), burst shots, etc. Sure, it wasn't the most balanced in Fallout, but that's no reason to make it even worse by taking them all out.

 

Minor points:

•  
• Ranger difficulty I think is appropriately difficult, with frequent unconscious characters if you are not careful. I would appreciate easy .ini tweaks to adjust enemy THC / health / damage globally - it may not be the best thing but it is a nice way to easily 'mod' difficulty for those who want it.
•  
• The way armour works is weird - it seems to be a flat damage reduction, so when I had 3 of my guys with light armour they were taking 0 or 1 damage from, say, melee weapons, animals, about half the ranged shooters.
•  
• The proximity penalty for sniper rifles should be 2 or 3 squares rather than 1; right now you just step back and shoot. Because sniper rifles cost 6 AP per shot, and most characters will have at least 7 AP (but not 12), the cost of moving one square is minimal.
•  

 

Story, Quests, Reactivity

I didn't expect too much on this point - the actual people working on WL2, I don't know enough to have any trust in their pedigree or expect a particular style. Indeed, I think it's decent, but nothing special. No line that made me laugh or really stop and think, nothing truly memorable on that front. I don't mind hugely, and I know I won't have seen everything the Beta offers (e.g. I eventually couldn't reconcile the RNC factions). One thing I will say is that not having played WL1 very much, the Rangers only got interesting after talking to everyone at the HQ: outside there are some hints, but really I didn't come out with very strong impressions about Rangers' identity. Which is odd, because I saw a lot of talk about it... maybe it's more a comment on how much I liked the dialogue in the HQ.

 

World Map

Everyone's pointed out the problem with water. Apparently it's bugged at the moment, but in any case, there are far, far, far too many oases. Does outdoorsman impact the rate of water consumption? It should. I think the land of milk & honey + some corridoring + lack of anything interesting to find except caches and oases all result in a very boring world map. I don't know what kind of special events and locations and encounters there are to discover in the full game but I imagine that will be a key part of making the World Map worthwhile.

 

Minor Usability Tweaks

These were the things that were substantially annoying and remained so after 5+ hours, which I think could be addressed without too much hassle:

•  
• Combat animation for multiple attacks in round. On 2x speed at least, there is a noticeable delay, up to 1 second, between when the first attack animation finishes and when the second one fires. This is both the case for enemies, and for PCs, where you can't target the enemy again after your first attack until the delay is over. This noticeably slows combat down and makes it feel sluggish.
•  
• Automatic camera zoom in area transitions. Entering and exiting various houses in RNC or Highpool, the zoom has the effect of making the transition feel longer than it is, especially since you stay in most houses for less than ten seconds. A simple zoom in/out would do, since as far as I can tell there's no actual loading here, just teleporting the party.
•  
• Please implement a 'Reload All' button outside combat, for obvious reasons.
•  
• Please make sure that in Trade, items you place in sell window are saved when you switch across characters.

 

[HoonDing]

Planet Alcatraz > Wasteland 2.

[Mamoulian War]

Hmm interesting. To bad we never seen Planet Alcatraz 2 localized in English But I hope the final product will be better.

[Nihiliste]

What I've seen so far of WL2 has me a bit worried about Torment. 

[Mamoulian War]

Hmm interesting. To bad we never seen Planet Alcatraz 2 localized in English But I hope the final product will be better.

 

BTW: Planet Alcatraz was heavily cut and censored from original Russian version. If you know Russian Language, search for  "Санитары подземелий" you might find that game for sale somewhere.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

What I've seen so far of WL2 has me a bit worried about Torment. 

 

While what I've seen (they can actually deliver a working game!) combined with what I've read in the Torment updates has me sleeping soundly.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

 

 

eh. I thought you were already playing it since you posted three screen shots. And I only came across one of the meme references, the one with the guy sitting in a chair being shot in the knee with a bullet.

 

Oh yeah, it's quite good and like fallout.

[Bester]

So, what do we have? Some people say it's mediocre, some say it's good like fallout.

 

Means it's mediocre.

[Elerond]

 

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

 

 

eh. I thought you were already playing it since you posted three screen shots. And I only came across one of the meme references, the one with the guy sitting in a chair being shot in the knee with a bullet.

 

Oh yeah, it's quite good and like fallout.

 

 

But with full controllable party and eighties theme instead of fiftieths.

 

Game plays well, writing is good, although there is some typos or old descriptions here and there

Choices you need to make seem to have very high impact in world and can change course of must more heavily than any choices in Fallout 2.

 

Beta has quite lot of bugs and some features and most of the content is not yet available to use or play which makes it difficult to assess what game as whole will be, but at least now it looks very promising   

[Wolfenbarg]

What I've seen so far of WL2 has me a bit worried about Torment. 

Well the combat system is based on PnP with some modifications based on the game they're trying to make, so that will definitely be a bit less straightforward. Then you've got an entirely different writing team which includes Chris Avellone and George Ziets... I'd say it's too early to really worry.

[Majek]

Ugh,,, You do know Avellone helped with Wasteland 2 as well, don't you?

[Lexx]

Keep in mind that Avellone worked only on a few locations (ag center, for example)- like the other writers as well. So just because person x worked on the game, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the writing in the game will be of the same quality.

[Gromnir]

 

NOBODY has described how it is so far. Jesus Christ people. Just give me your steam account for a couple of hours and I'll write at least SOMETHING. This is ridiculous.

 

"Oh yeah yeah it's good". - IN WHAT WAY!!!!?

"Oh yeah it's like fallout you know?". -- NO I DON'T KNOW. BE MORE SPECIFIC!!

 

It's like we're dealing with a secret society here. COME ON SAY SOMETHING!!

 

RPGcodex has plenty of great things to say about it!

 

that would be a first.  is never really a point in reading codex feedback as you know ahead o' time what the feedback will be based on who developed a game. poseurs at codex spend considerable wasted effort defending their chosen developers such that they becomes emotionally invested. is one o' the unfortunate drawbacks o' aggressive debate. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Tigranes]

It's a decent fun RPG with its heart in its right place. So worthwhile for any old school RPG fan. Just don't expect something as good as FO1 or Arcanum.

[Gromnir]

It's a decent fun RPG with its heart in its right place. So worthwhile for any old school RPG fan. Just don't expect something as good as FO1 or Arcanum.

not as good as arcanum? not as good a movie as Howard the Duck? not as good a car as the amc pacer? not as good a bridge as the 1940 tacoma narrows?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw

 

no doubt all the aforementioned impressed folks when they were ideas on paper, but they failed miserable at the execution part o' development. likewise, arcanum were most engaging and compelling Before we played it.  a game that can't measure up to arcanum? doomed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Spider]

Yeah, Arcanum isn't the best measuring stick.

 

I'd be happy for something in the veins of the first two thirds of Fallout Tactics myself (and it's the game style I expect from the game more than anything else I think).

 

Edit: And I know, not exactly the best measuring stick either, although I like that game myself.

Edited December 24, 2013 by Spider

[Tigranes]

Sorry Grommy. I'm sure you speak The Truth and The Way, but I love Arcanum. 

[Blodhemn]

It's a decent fun RPG with its heart in its right place. So worthwhile for any old school RPG fan. Just don't expect something as good as FO1 or Arcanum.

That's what I've expected out of all of these games. How can an isometric game break new ground? The best it can do is mimic gameplay of old, which is what 95% of RPG fans spend their lives longing for.

[kirottu]

It cannot break new ground because of camera angle? What? 

[Blodhemn]

I don't see how it really can. If you go old school with your design, you're not exactly trying to break new ground in the first place and I don't think they had that in mind to begin with. Imagine all of the upset old schoolers/backers if the designers deviate from the norm and try something revolutionary - it's not even what the backers asked for. Nostalgia > invention.

[Lexx]

Yeah, W2 should be first person with immersing gunfights and realistic movement and stuff. It would be totally ground breaking. Wait a moment... no, it wouldn't be at all.