SW: The Old Republic

[Gfted1]

So which SW class = mage?

Inquisitor and Consular or whatever.

 

Ill look them up, thanks.

 

So which SW class = mage?

Jedi? The Kensai-Mage of SW >_

 

Im the anti-Hurlshot, I prefer to stand in the back and nuke your face off.

[Gromnir]

So which SW class = mage?

Inquisitor and Consular or whatever.

 

Ill look them up, thanks.

 

So which SW class = mage?

Jedi? The Kensai-Mage of SW

 

Im the anti-Hurlshot, I prefer to stand in the back and nuke your face off.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_...epublic#Classes

 

our interest is negligible, but the included link is seeming to be a useful start point for those who is having such interest.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Raithe]

One of the things about the classes.. is that when you take the advance class options at 10th level or whatever.. it opens up a lot of variability (supposedly) with skill trees.

 

So while a lot of people are saying the likes of Sith Inquisitor is the long-range mage equivalent.. you can turn them into a type of tanker, a dps close in melee, a healer type, or the long range dps type..

 

OldRepublic.Net - Class Guides

This might be of some interest to folks..

[kirottu]

So which SW class = mage?

Inquisitor and Consular or whatever.

 

Ill look them up, thanks.

 

Remember to post your impressions.

[Hurlshort]

There are also a bunch of video of the classes on the website, including progressions ones that show the two different branches.

 

There are quite a few ranged damage dealers in this game. The Jedi Knight and the Sith equivalent are the only real melee focused characters.

[Oblarg]

at this point we thinks you is being kinda willful obtuse.

 

No, I think you're just close-minded and not really reading anything I'm posting.

 

The "big reveal" is of the nature of why the Exile lost his connection to the force, and of Kreia's true motivations (to destroy both the Jedi and the Sith). The cool twist to this is that it ultimately doesn't end up being that much of a twist at all:

 

"Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great secret. There is only you."

[Gromnir]

at this point we thinks you is being kinda willful obtuse.

 

No, I think you're just close-minded and not really reading anything I'm posting.

 

The "big reveal" is of the nature of why the Exile lost his connection to the force, and of Kreia's true motivations (to destroy both the Jedi and the Sith). The cool twist to this is that it ultimately doesn't end up being that much of a twist at all:

 

"Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great secret. There is only you."

 

*groan*

 

talk 'bout taking out of context. your quote, once again, works against you. there were no big reveal at the very end 'of the game. is no, "it were all a test." GOTCHA! the quote is correct. we already were made aware o' all the big secrets before leaving dantooine. so , yet again, you post material which works to hurt your argument. if the kill the force stuff and threat were all a ruse, then there woulda' been a big reveal at the end... and chrisA woulda' made obvious rather than obscure.

 

again, take out your single essential line and the whole house o' cards falls. no mention o' "i know" and final tests and your reading is complete implausible. the same cannot be said o' the lill the force scenario.

 

and keeps in mind that Gromnir is not the one being so close minded. we is suggesting that kreia need not have a single goal and motivation. ask a person why they is going to university to study. is probable a half dozen reasons... chances are that those reasons change. you is wanting one, simple solution for a complex character. Gromnir is suggesting that One o' kreia's goals is destruction o' the force, and we is claiming that kreia never made simple and clear as you suggest. our interp is far more open-minded as it recognizes complexity and multiple motivations. you and vol, on the other hand, is having much more in common with vol as you is somehow seeing simplistic and limited. once again, a final test for the exile does not preclude that kreia wanted to kill the force. have to be pretty close-minded to read that way... 'specially as we is talking 'bout a game that needs a final confrontation. just 'cause we point out the holes and flaws in your reading does not make us close-minded. am only closed to bad arguments.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited October 14, 2011 by Gromnir

[Oblarg]

and keeps in mind that Gromnir is not the one being so close minded. we is suggesting that kreia need not have a single goal and motivation. ask a person why they is going to university to study. is probable a half dozen reasons... chances are that those reasons change. you is wanting one, simple solution for a complex character

 

I'd say your interpretation gives far less credit to Kreia's character than mine - not only does it require to you simply accept pretty much every action she takes at the end of the game (and most of what she does for the majority of the game) to be completely absurd as it doesn't help her accomplish her supposed end goal, but it also requires you to accept that she ultimately compromises on her beliefs by being "redeemed" at the end by the Exile. It literally makes no sense at all in the context of her character, and even less in the context of the plot of the game. If she really wanted to kill the force, she could have done it as soon as the force bond developed between her and the Exile; why would she need to draw out the Jedi and the Sith to destroy them if she truly thought she could remove the one thing that made them a threat to the galaxy in the first place?

[Gromnir]

and keeps in mind that Gromnir is not the one being so close minded. we is suggesting that kreia need not have a single goal and motivation. ask a person why they is going to university to study. is probable a half dozen reasons... chances are that those reasons change. you is wanting one, simple solution for a complex character

 

I'd say your interpretation gives far less credit to Kreia's character than mine - not only does it require to you simply accept pretty much every action she takes at the end of the game (and most of what she does for the majority of the game) to be completely absurd as it doesn't help her accomplish her supposed end goal, but it also requires you to accept that she ultimately compromises on her beliefs by being "redeemed" at the end by the Exile. It literally makes no sense at all in the context of her character, and even less in the context of the plot of the game. If she really wanted to kill the force, she could have done it as soon as the force bond developed between her and the Exile; why would she need to draw out the Jedi and the Sith to destroy them if she truly thought she could remove the one thing that made them a threat to the galaxy in the first place?

 

you misread us just as you misread kotor2. and you still insist on ignoring the possibility o'having multiple goals. is not simply Kill the Force. can't want revenge and death o' force? revan is more than a reminder o' kreia failure and the exile is more than simply a tool. as long as you keep looking at the game so limited, you will continue to miss obvious stuff. perhaps your misunderstanding comes 'bout 'cause you ignore why kreia wishes to kill the force. start at the Whys and maybe you get different answers. maybe consider the nature o' betrayal too.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Oblarg]

you misread us just as you misread kotor2.

 

I love the irony here - first you call me out for claiming that my interpretation follows "obviously" from the dialogue (which it does, mind you, unless you just want to selectively ignore those lines which point towards it), and then claim that anything that isn't your interpretation is "misreading" the game. "Good fun!" indeed.

 

I have not precluded the possibility of Kreia having multiple goals, I have only pointed out that most of those goals wouldn't need to be accomplished were she to accomplish what you claim is her main goal. If you assume that Kreia is actually plotting to destroy the force for most of the game, then most of the plot is completely nonsensical.

[Gromnir]

you misread us just as you misread kotor2.

 

irony

 

 

in the words o' inigo montoya, "i do not think that word means what you think it means."

 

*shrug*

 

 

and no, we never claimed that any reading other than ours is wrong. we claimed that given our own alternative reading and plausible defense, coupled with the alternative reading o' others in this thread, drew k, AND lucasarts no less, your suggestion that kreia made it clear that she never intended to kill the force is wrong. weight o' public opinion should never be considered determinate, but it should make one at least consider alternatives. also, when so many has a different reading than oblarg, it more than just a little undercuts the theory that kreia made it clear that oblarg is right.

 

in spite o' the fact that nearly all crpg plots is nonsensical, you has hardly established that case in this instance. for chrissakes, a nonsensical plot in and of itself is hardly even worth mentioning. sarevok's plot to disrupt the sword coast by "poisoning" iron in mines? HA! nevertheless, you gots a theory that depends on one line o' optional dialogue without which the entire house o' cards falls. really? oh sure, you sees evidence elsewhere, but your ambiguous excerpt is the linchpin. and again, keeps in mind that we ain't denying that kreia is teaching and testing, but she simultaneous is wanting revenge 'pon those who has betrayed her. as much as she feels betrayed by the jedi and her former sith compatriots, she recognizes that they is all potential pawns o' the force. you recognize that she wants to kill sion and mush-mouth and the dantooine masters, but not the ultimate puppet-master? rrrriiiiiigggghhhhhttt. so kreia works simultaneous to expand the exile's wound and hunt down her own personal foes. hardly as wacky as dozens o' other crpg plots. furthermore, one cannot betray a trust until such a trust exists-- kreia took her bond with the exile quite serious. add in her desire for meaningful choice and recognizing that the exile were similarly betrayed as herself...

 

oh, and in the alternative, the plot gets really wacky and nonsensical if you genuine believe that the whole kotor2 plot is just some crucible for testing the exile.

 

...

 

if anybody is retconning (what a horrible word) it is oblarg. perhaps drew and lucas will simplify kreia motivations, and that is a shame, but at least they is in the right galaxy, so to speak.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Oblarg]

and no, we never claimed that any reading other than ours is wrong. we claimed that given our own alternative reading and plausible defense, coupled with the alternative reading o' others in this thread, drew k, AND lucasarts no less, your suggestion that kreia made it clear that she never intended to kill the force is wrong. weight o' public opinion should never be considered determinate, but it should make one at least consider alternatives. also, when so many has a different reading than oblarg, it more than just a little undercuts the theory that kreia made it clear that oblarg is right.

 

One of the funniest self-contradictions I've ever seen, but that aside, I'm done arguing with you - you've made it quite clear that you'd rather simply repeat the same thing rather than reading any of my responses. Also, I'm quite aware of the meaning of "irony," and it's even more ironic that you, of all people, would attempt to criticize someone over literacy.

[Gromnir]

and no, we never claimed that any reading other than ours is wrong. we claimed that given our own alternative reading and plausible defense, coupled with the alternative reading o' others in this thread, drew k, AND lucasarts no less, your suggestion that kreia made it clear that she never intended to kill the force is wrong. weight o' public opinion should never be considered determinate, but it should make one at least consider alternatives. also, when so many has a different reading than oblarg, it more than just a little undercuts the theory that kreia made it clear that oblarg is right.

 

Also, I'm quite aware of the meaning of "irony," and it's even more ironic that you, of all people, would attempt to criticize someone over literacy.

 

 

well you not seem to know what a self-contradiction is neither, but we will concede that it is seeming ironic that one who posts as Gromnir would question a personages understanding o' definitions... but is not genuine ironic to anybody who has posted here for more than a few weeks.

 

*shrug*

 

regardless, you clear weren't invoking irony earlier.... which is neither ironic nor self-contradictory.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am seeing where a poor reading could lead to a claim o' self-contradiction. however, you perhaps missed the word "clear" in our reply. weight o' popular belief does not make you wrong. however, if the kreia meaning were as clear as you suggest, there would be no popular weight to fight 'gainst. 'course if you didn't misread, then you have no excuse and am stumped by your misunderstanding.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Gromnir

[Oblarg]

Consciously making your posts read like they were typed like a five year old does nothing to change the fact that they do, in fact, read like they were typed like a five year old. You may want to consider that if you want to be in a position where you can call someone out for poor rhetoric.

 

And if you honestly think that there's absolutely no self-contradiction in that post, you're truly hopeless. Here's a hint: if public opinion is not determinate on the issue of Kreia's motivations, it's not determinate on whether or not those motivations were made clear, either. Especially when, as you've noted, the most straightforward explanation of them is an optional line of dialogue.

 

Regardless, I'm through with this discussion. Judging from your unwillingness to actually discuss any of the plot points I bring up rather than simply repeating the same three things (to which I have responded, multiple times) in every post, you're clearly not interested in reasonable discourse so much as verbally ****ting all over the thread until the other side gives up. In that respect, you've won. Congratulations.

[Jaesun]

It's Gromnir. It would be like explaining to volo he is wrong (volourn is NEVER wrong, even when he is, he is right).

 

You would have better luck talking to a brick wall.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Jaesun

[Calax]

Consciously making your posts read like they were typed like a five year old does nothing to change the fact that they do, in fact, read like they were typed like a five year old. You may want to consider that if you want to be in a position where you can call someone out for poor rhetoric.

 

And if you honestly think that there's absolutely no self-contradiction in that post, you're truly hopeless. Here's a hint: if public opinion is not determinate on the issue of Kreia's motivations, it's not determinate on whether or not those motivations were made clear, either. Especially when, as you've noted, the most straightforward explanation of them is an optional line of dialogue.

 

Regardless, I'm through with this discussion. Judging from your unwillingness to actually discuss any of the plot points I bring up rather than simply repeating the same three things (to which I have responded, multiple times) in every post, you're clearly not interested in reasonable discourse so much as verbally ****ting all over the thread until the other side gives up. In that respect, you've won. Congratulations.

Besides, since when have LA been able to know ANYTHING about cannon consistency? Compare the character and ship designs in, say, Knights of the Old Republic and the Sith War trilogy found within, to the stuff that was found in the two games and what has been seen in TOR (and it's been specifically said that the art style was forced on Bioware by LA).

 

Mandalorians went from actual aliens to dudes in armor.

Basalisk war droids went from having the Mandalorian ride it and looking insect like, to being a starfighter from the book/game Shadows of the Empire

The Sith War where Courescant was invaded became a minor scuffle in popular culture.

 

As to Kreia, the only person who could give us a firm idea on her motivations (despite your protestations gromm) would be Avallone. It's his character, he knows what she really would be thinking and what she really wanted to do.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Gorth
Just as it started getting quiet...

[Bokishi]

Bastila needs to make a cameo...

[Gromnir]

Judging from your unwillingness to actually discuss any of the plot points I bring up rather than simply repeating the same three things (to which I have responded, multiple times) in every post, you're clearly not interested in reasonable discourse so much as verbally ****ting all over the thread until the other side gives up.

 

*chuckle*

 

introduce you to another word... hypocrite. as has been noted numerous times 'round these parts, our writing style is a putz detector. once folks give up arguing a point and instead bemoan our style, we know the kinda folks we is dealing with. as you yourself become repetitious repeat and go circular, you complain that Gromnir is doing so... but at least we stay on-topic, no? is obie who apparently ain't interested in reasonable discourse, and am gonna suggest that retreat to such childishness is hardly exemplary rhetoric, eh? we might post like a 5-year old (HA!) but is not us who is acting like one in the present instance.

 

oh, and clarity is as much dependent on the audience as the speaker. author must needs tailor to audience to be clear. how we speaks to a group o' attorneys 'bout the public forum doctrine is not how we would be making clear to obsidian boardies or a group o' the aforementioned 5-year old. success o' an author in being clear is very much subjective and dependent on the audience. sure, given the nature o' language it is unlikely that an author will ever achieve perfect clarity, but is hardly unreasonable to looks to a sampling o' the audience to be determining if the author were as clear as you thinks. if numerous folks in this thread, drew (the guy commissioned to write the revan book) and lucasarts all see different than obie, then the suggestion that your excerpt were as clear as you suggest is very much called into question.

 

and the most straightforward explanation is not gonna come from an optional line o' dialogue. most straightforward is not gonna be hidden where only some might see it. "It is said that the Force has a will, it has a destiny for us all. I wield it, but it uses us all, and that is abhorrent to me. Because I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve some measure of balance, when countless lives are lost. But in you

[Gromnir]

Bastila needs to make a cameo...

 

 

you kinda get your wish. when we posted our link yesterday, we recalled seeing a familiar name on the "character" list for tor.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Calax]

Bastila needs to make a cameo...

Only if she's a force ghost.

[Volourn]

"It's Gromnir. It would be like explaining to volo he is wrong (volourn is NEVER wrong, even when he is, he is right)."

 

Darn tootin'!

 

 

 

"As to Kreia, the only person who could give us a firm idea on her motivations (despite your protestations gromm) would be Avallone. It's his character, he knows what she really would be thinking and what she really wanted to do."

 

Nope. I go byt the game and her actions in game not his after the fact thoughts or what he hoped. If had an idea what krea's motivations were and people got them wrong it just shows he's a poor writer and after playing the awesome FO2 and PST, no way in Mr. A THAT poor of a writer.

[Bokishi]

Bastila needs to make a cameo...

 

 

you kinda get your wish. when we posted our link yesterday, we recalled seeing a familiar name on the "character" list for tor.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Cool I wonder if she has Jennifer Hale's voice

[Zoraptor]

This one is easy, Jedi aren't allowed to have sex. Sex is part of the dark side.

This is incorrect, odd as it may seem. For Jedi sex is fine- outside the context of a healthy adult relationship.

 

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

 

So yeah, canonically a jedi PC* ought to be free to boff all the Ishi Tib/ Gamorreans/ Selonians they like, so long as they don't care about them.

 

...

 

To whoever made the observation; yes, the perfect jedi is pretty much the perfect sociopath.

 

*[edit: at the time of TOR there was a theoretical ban on 'relationships', which can be interpreted as no sex. Seems pretty clear that it in that sense at least it was flaunted, given Bastilla's progeny]

Edited October 15, 2011 by Zoraptor

[Gromnir]

Bastila needs to make a cameo...

 

 

you kinda get your wish. when we posted our link yesterday, we recalled seeing a familiar name on the "character" list for tor.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Satele_Shan

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Cool I wonder if she has Jennifer Hale's voice

 

utilizing the most arcane methods (we googled jennifer hale and imdb) we found your answer.

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0354937/

 

oh, and vol is managing his once yearly feat o' being mostly correct. irenicus, for example, were more complex than most gamers suspected. parallels 'tween macbeth and irenicus were substantial. however, most gamers never recognized bioware efforts to make irenicus More than an elf wizard, mad with power. gaider and biowarians recognized that the failure to get across the intended depth were the writer, developers and voice actor fault. lack o' clarity were subjective. Gromnir saw and bio intended, but what were obvious to us were hidden from a great many people. the fact that so many people didn't see/realize the parallels were proof enough for the biowarians that they hadn't been near as clear as they had hoped. oh, and the irenicus~macbeth stuff is far more substantial than is the kreia-were-only-testing theory of oblarg's. one cannot take out a single line o' optional dialogue from bg2 and makes the macbeth stuff untenable. 'cause you know, writers love it when their characters is misunderstood, so they always hide the most important character development.

 

*snort*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Orogun01]

This one is easy, Jedi aren't allowed to have sex. Sex is part of the dark side.

This is incorrect, odd as it may seem. For Jedi sex is fine- outside the context of a healthy adult relationship.

 

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

 

So yeah, canonically a jedi PC* ought to be free to boff all the Ishi Tib/ Gamorreans/ Selonians they like, so long as they don't care about them.

 

...

 

To whoever made the observation; yes, the perfect jedi is pretty much the perfect sociopath.

 

*[edit: at the time of TOR there was a theoretical ban on 'relationships', which can be interpreted as no sex. Seems pretty clear that it in that sense at least it was flaunted, given Bastilla's progeny]

Like we're gonna believe anything George Lucas says; the man made Jar Jar Binks and raped Indiana Jones for Pete's sake!

Edited October 15, 2011 by Orogun01